Really not liking level caps

[atlasstar]

No real offense meant here, but seriously?

Are the mods and devs really so ignorant that they don't realize that just telling casual and new players to "git gud" or that they have "beaten it with no trouble" is not going to fix a glaring change in difficulty from the original games?

This is an mmo that was, at least as far as I'm aware not meant to devolve into high tier absolutely toxic and bullying game from what I've seen the mods and more active members post, and respond to people with.

Saying "lol I did it with 4 spindas" does not mean the casual or less experienced player should do that, or should have to do that.

Anyone coming from the regular Pokemon games would likely hate this change, and simply quit when they see it.

The e4 should have an updated AI, I agree, but should they have all comp movesets/IVs/EVs/Items? Absolutely not, you are just going to push away the bulk of your players halfway through the game when they stop having fun due to your "challenging game play to prepare the player"

What if they don't want to play comp or against comp AI? What if they want to play through the game casually with friends?

These used to be possible, not so much anymore with these levelcaps, inflated prices, and difficulty buffs

I wouldn't have sounded so angry if the only posts I'd seen responding to people saying they'd had a hard time(esp from the mods and senior members) were more positive and didn't usually just brag about their own accomplishments or insult the person by telling them to, again, "git gud".

Edited December 5, 2017 by atlasstar
making things more clear, original post was very angry sounding

[Feralcaw]

I did this with one level 56 magikarp named Max, you clearly arent conforming to the way we want you to do things, also pokemon isnt about having friends, if your friends are going to play they better be good or know how to git gud as you say. if you cannot simply beat an AI you should probably leave too, i for one agree with all the cms and gms saying youre probably a piss poor player.

https://gyazo.com/66d55ed3256159763b6bdbdec9171698

[Akshit]

50 minutes ago, atlasstar said:

No real offense meant here, but fucking seriously?

Are the mods and devs really so incompetent and ignorant that they don't realize that just telling casual and new players to "git gud" is not going to fix a glaring change in difficulty from the original games?

This is an mmo that was, at least as far as I'm aware not meant to devolve into high tier absolutely toxic and bullying game from what I've seen the mods post, and respond to people with.

Saying "lol I did it with 4 spindas" does not mean the casual or less experienced player should do that, or should have to do that.

Anyone coming from the regular Pokemon games would likely hate this change, and simply quit when they see it.

The e4 should have an updated AI, I agree, but should they have all comp movesets/IVs/EVs/Items? Absolutely not, you are just going to push away the bulk of your players halfway through the game when they stop having fun due to your "challenging gameplay to prepare the player"

What if they don't want to play comp? What if they want to play through the game casually with friends?

These used to be possible, not so much anymore with these levelcaps, inflated prices, and difficulty buffs

I wouldn't have sounded so insulting if the only posts I'd seen responding to people saying they'd had a hard time(esp from the mods) were more positive and didn't usually just brag about their own accomplishments or insult the person by telling them to, again, "git gud".

Catch some wild pokes huntin for 1x31s....Then you can literally breed a 2x31 for 20k...

40k or so if you want specific nature (and buy an everstone instead of farming). It will be a small one time investment....After that just train it.

Put a little bit of effort in... with the right EV in right IV, the AI is pretty easy to beat.

You do not need to get good, just be smart about it, & not be lazy.

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Akshit

[Kizhaz]

1 hour ago, atlasstar said:

No real offense meant here, but fucking seriously?

Are the mods and devs really so incompetent and ignorant that they don't realize that just telling casual and new players to "git gud" is not going to fix a glaring change in difficulty from the original games?

This is an mmo that was, at least as far as I'm aware not meant to devolve into high tier absolutely toxic and bullying game from what I've seen the mods post, and respond to people with.

Saying "lol I did it with 4 spindas" does not mean the casual or less experienced player should do that, or should have to do that.

Anyone coming from the regular Pokemon games would likely hate this change, and simply quit when they see it.

The e4 should have an updated AI, I agree, but should they have all comp movesets/IVs/EVs/Items? Absolutely not, you are just going to push away the bulk of your players halfway through the game when they stop having fun due to your "challenging gameplay to prepare the player"

What if they don't want to play comp? What if they want to play through the game casually with friends?

These used to be possible, not so much anymore with these levelcaps, inflated prices, and difficulty buffs

I wouldn't have sounded so insulting if the only posts I'd seen responding to people saying they'd had a hard time(esp from the mods) were more positive and didn't usually just brag about their own accomplishments or insult the person by telling them to, again, "git gud".

I don't believe any staff member has used the term "git gud" so I don't know why you keep quoting it like we have. As for Xela mentioning his Spinda playthrough, he's doing it to show that it is possible to complete the story with a sub par team, he's not bragging about his accomplishments nor telling others to do the same as him, it's just when we get complaints from people using decent Pokemon saying it's impossible when we all know it's possible.

 

"What if they don't want to play comp? What if they want to play through the game casually with friends?" They still can. The difficulty increase is not to get the playerbase into competitive play (it can be however, so you're not entirely incorrect) but to better prepare them for challenging PvE content that is planned in the future like Dungeons. These will primarily be PvE and very challenging, and if similar to the Winter event last year were possible to go through the dungeon with a friend.

 

The game has had it's difficulty ramped up. This isn't your typical GameBoy game that hand holds you, nor is it meant to be. In the end all it takes is a little thought and some items to win these battles, they are meant to be difficult and they are meant to be rewarding.

[maxkek]

This is pokemon for gods sake. it's created in a way to be balanced and occasionally tricky. it's meant to be a game for casuals. There are ways to make it more challenging than "yeah let's just shit on this and give the elite four entire coverage and also a bunch of heals"

[atlasstar]

9 hours ago, Akshit said:

Catch some wild pokes huntin for 1x31s....Then you can literally breed a 2x31 for 20k...

40k or so if you want specific nature (and buy an everstone instead of farming). It will be a small one time investment....After that just train it.

Put a little bit of effort in... with the right EV in right IV, the AI is pretty easy to beat.

You do not need to get good, just be smart about it, & not be lazy.

 

I didn't ask for advice, I was simply stating what the problems were related to this new update. So thanks for the off topic reply?

As for your advice, new players and casuals won't know to do that and most of the comments here haven't been real advice. Most of it has been "I beat the e4 so you should be able to", guess what? That's now how skill levels work.

Just because an experienced players who knows how to essentially game the system or have a technique to beat them doesn't mean the others will, or even that they should have to.

It not only proves my point but strengthens it further that you call anyone who can't do it dumb or lazy because they haven't figured out a "trick" to win.

I liked your post for the general advice even if the attitude of it is wrong.

Edited December 5, 2017 by atlasstar
added more

[Gunthug]

1 minute ago, atlasstar said:

I didn't ask for advice, I was simply stating what the problems were related to this new update. So thanks for the off topic reply? As for your advice, new players and casuals won't know to do that and most of the comments here haven't been real advice. Most of it has been "I beat the e4 so you should be able to", guess what? That's now how skill levels work. Just because an experienced players who knowso how to essentially game the system to beat them doesn't mean the others will, or even that they should have to. It not only proves my point but strengthens it further that you call anyone who can't do it dumb or lazy because they haven't figured out a "trick" to win.

You know what's a good way to gain experience and learn how to beat difficult challenges like the e4? By trying and failing at it a few times. I dk why you came into this thread so angry but try cooling off a bit and realizing that you're arguing about a Pokemon game being too hard for you 

[Raichuforyou]

4 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

You know what's a good way to gain experience and learn how to beat difficult challenges like the e4? By trying and failing at it a few times. I dk why you came into this thread so angry but try cooling off a bit and realizing that you're arguing about a Pokemon game being too hard for you 

You know what's a good way to lose items and money to beat challenges like the e4? By trying and failing it a few times.

[atlasstar]

9 hours ago, Kizhaz said:

I don't believe any staff member has used the term "git gud" so I don't know why you keep quoting it like we have. As for Xela mentioning his Spinda playthrough, he's doing it to show that it is possible to complete the story with a sub par team, he's not bragging about his accomplishments nor telling others to do the same as him, it's just when we get complaints from people using decent Pokemon saying it's impossible when we all know it's possible.

 

"What if they don't want to play comp? What if they want to play through the game casually with friends?" They still can. The difficulty increase is not to get the playerbase into competitive play (it can be however, so you're not entirely incorrect) but to better prepare them for challenging PvE content that is planned in the future like Dungeons. These will primarily be PvE and very challenging, and if similar to the Winter event last year were possible to go through the dungeon with a friend.

 

The game has had it's difficulty ramped up. This isn't your typical GameBoy game that hand holds you, nor is it meant to be. In the end all it takes is a little thought and some items to win these battles, they are meant to be difficult and they are meant to be rewarding.

I admit, most of the bashing of people simply commenting on the difficult was done from members but it certainly doesn't help that Xela essentially yells "no, the difficulty isn't bad, you don't get to not like it" whenever anyone says anything.

Related to that, unless he's already beaten them with the Spindas, which as a play through of the game kind of prove my point that it would be no fun for casuals to play with sub-par pokes.

Since he himself has stated that he's lost multiple times to the easiest gyms and had to use more Pokemon than he started with. So far all I'm seeing is mods desperately trying to hide the fact that there are people who don't like the update, the level caps, or the new difficulty curve.

The main problem with which is that the only solution to a level cap is to either breed a better Pokemon than what you currently have or ev/iv a lower level one until it reaches the cap and is somewhat comp built. This is a deterrent to casual players in every way, it's fine not to like that, but you at least have to accept that this is not casual or new player friendly. And that's in a multitude of ways.

And as a final point, since this is something that kept being brought up, I personally don't want to play extra hard dungeons. I don't want to make comp pokemon just to beat artificially difficult ai. I have been playing Pokemon since it came out, have played Pokemmo through Kanto and Hoenn (which is my favorite region ) and I am sorely disappointed at these changes. This is not what I play Pokemmo for. Not to be limited and forced halfway into competitive for content I'm not honestly very interested in.

 

1 hour ago, Gunthug said:

You know what's a good way to gain experience and learn how to beat difficult challenges like the e4? By trying and failing at it a few times. I dk why you came into this thread so angry but try cooling off a bit and realizing that you're arguing about a Pokemon game being too hard for you 

Never said I personally had trouble, just that I thought it was unfair to casual players and newbies. Please don't try to paint other people's experiences just because you want to one up them.

Edited December 5, 2017 by atlasstar
wrote this on phone, editing

[Senile]

5 minutes ago, atlasstar said:

I admit, most of the bashing of people simply commenting on the difficult was done from members but it certainly doesn't help that Xela essentially yells "no, the difficulty isn't bad, you don't get to not like it" whenever anyone says anything. Related to that, unless he's already beaten them with the spindas, which as a playthrough of the game kind of prove my point that it would be no fun for casuals to play with subpar pokes. Since he himself has stated that he's lost multiple times to the easiest gyms and had to use more pokemon than he started with. So far all I'm seeing is mods desperately trying to hide the fact that there are people who don't like the update, the level caps, or the new difficulty curve. The main problem with which is that the only solution to a level cap is to either breed a better pokemon than what you currently have or ev/iv a lower level one until it reaches the cap and is somewhat comp built. This is a deterrent to casual playershould in every way, it's fine not to like that, but you at least have to accept that this is not casual or new player friendly. And that's in a multitude of ways. And as a final point, since this is something that kept being brought up, I personally don't want to play extra hard dungeons. I don't want to make comp pokemon just to beat artificially difficult ai. I have been playing pokemon since it came out, have played pokemon through Kanto and Hoenn (which is my favorite region ) and I am sorely disappointed at these changes. This is not what I play Pokemmo for. Not to be limited and forced halfway into competitive for content I'm not honestly very interested in.

From the sounds of things, you do not, and will never, have any interest in the MMO-oriented custom content that PokeMMO is aiming to provide, and desire these changes to be undone (or at least mitigated) so that you, and others like you, can play the game in a way you enjoy, because as things are now, you find it unenjoyable, right?

 

If that is the case, then don't play. If you're playing PokeMMO, you obviously have access to the original cartridge games, and if you have no intention of ever participating in any of the real PokeMMO content, so wouldn't it be simpler to simply play the original games instead of attempting to get the developers to completely undo these changes?

 

Not everyone is going to enjoy the changes made to PokeMMO from the base games, but in your case, your problem seems easily solvable by just playing the original games. If you want to do so with your friends, then it looks like you boys are gonna have to pull out your DSeses and your Link Cables.

[Raichuforyou]

I have to say though that I do agree which atlasstar. I feel the game is moving in a direction that forces people to pick up competitive aspects more often than not for pregame, which is something I've always felt should be reserved for the postgame of a Pokemon game. Everyone who isn't troubled with the new changes ALWAYS makes dismissive comments in every single thread saying that there aren't problems and have no idea to emphasize with more casual players in the playerbase.

It would be nice to have the development team come out and just say "Yes, this game is intended for a player with a more competitive background, and is not for the casual player", but all I see is statements saying that "It isn't that hard, just take a small loan of a million dollars to breed a team and completely replace everything you've been training up so far in the game".

[atlasstar]

23 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

I have to say though that I do agree which atlasstar. I feel the game is moving in a direction that forces people to pick up competitive aspects more often than not for pregame, which is something I've always felt should be reserved for the postgame of a Pokemon game. Everyone who isn't troubled with the new changes ALWAYS makes dismissive comments in every single thread saying that there aren't problems and have no idea to emphasize with more casual players in the playerbase.

It would be nice to have the development team come out and just say "Yes, this game is intended for a player with a more competitive background, and is not for the casual player", but all I see is statements saying that "It isn't that hard, just take a small loan of a million dollars to breed a team and completely replace everything you've been training up so far in the game".

And I completely agree with Raichu here, and sadly have to agree with Senile as well. The game is going in a direction that is blatantly not casual player friendly like it used to be, the build is clearly trying to push people out of playing Pokemon as an mmo into playing a romhack dungeon mmo of Pokemon.

One with inflated prices that make the casual player have to farm trainers and versus(and not breed because they probably haven't beaten the e4) just to get money.

Of course I feel this is a bad direction for the game, it speaks of a competitive and frankly toxic mindset being pushed above people having fun and playing pokemon together.

 

I joined this game because it had what people had been dreaming about since Pokemon came out, a way to play the same pokemon game with your friends. Well the game is moving away from that, sadly.

I might quit, and I might not if the game continues in this direction. But you should really consider minor tweaks and changes, not to appease me like I've said, but for the good of all the casual players, because they're your staple tbqh.
edit: you'll always have the people who pour time using a bot or walking back and forth to get comp teams, but they aren't healthy players and never will be.

And I sincerely hope the dev team at least sees this and knows it's a problem.

Edited December 5, 2017 by atlasstar
spacing

[Gunthug]

47 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

You know what's a good way to lose items and money to beat challenges like the e4? By trying and failing it a few times.

It's an MMO, you can't expect everything to be free. Losing a few items and cash using trial and error is a far cry from the original Pokemon penalty for blacking out - losing 50% of your money. 

 

41 minutes ago, atlasstar said:

Never said I personally had trouble, just that I thought it was unfair to casual players and newbies. Please don't try to paint other people's experiences just because you want to one up them.

Whether you're secretly arguing for yourself or taking up this grandstanding position for the casual players, it doesn't change the fact that trial and error can be a way for "newbies" to not be newbies anymore. I can guarantee you that a portion of those who were originally complaining about things like level caps and e4 difficulty have since learned how to combat these changes and moved on. It's a vocal minority that continues to complain about it

[atlasstar]

5 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

It's an MMO, you can't expect everything to be free. Losing a few items and cash using trial and error is a far cry from the original Pokemon penalty for blacking out - losing 50% of your money. 

 

Whether you're secretly arguing for yourself or taking up this grandstanding position for the casual players, it doesn't change the fact that trial and error can be a way for "newbies" to not be newbies anymore. I can guarantee you that a portion of those who were originally complaining about things like level caps and e4 difficulty have since learned how to combat these changes and moved on. It's a vocal minority that continues to complain about it

1. you can't know that people just "got better"

2. nice assuming things about me again

3. you said the exact same thing you said before with no rebuttal to raichu *again*, there's no way to justify the waste when the difficulty curve also isn't justified other than "the devs put it in, just accept it"

[atlasstar]

As a final, final point, unless this gets more replies. I see people all the time posting in gen chat about not liking the new difficulty.

If the devs and mods are just going to ignore a vocal majority of players who dislike these changes, they should expect the community to get worse.

And the playerbase of an mmo is what drives an mmo, not just a devteam. Forgetting that is how even the biggest mmos lose massive numbers.

[Roundabout]

Yep it sucks, I took a long ass time to beat the Unova storyline, I had to transfer pokemons from other regions and level them there until I reached the level cap, because if I didn't I would have take a lot of more time to finish it, and tbh, repeatedly losing to a GYM leader or a rival can be kinda frustrating, even more for a new player and it might just cause them to leave. The base games aren't hard, and don't restrict the player as much for a good reason. If the goal of this is to discourage alt runs and if they were really breaking the economy (I remember some guy even got his alts banned bacause he used them to farming), and that will solve the problem then fine, but theres absolutely no point, in my opinion, to make the game harder like this as it just makes the game less friendly to newcomers and makes them more likely to leave.

 

TL;DR: the absurdly hard GYM Leaders and the level cap makes the game unfriendly to newcomers and casuals and because of that they end up leaving.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Roundabout

[Gunthug]

16 minutes ago, atlasstar said:

As a final, final point, unless this gets more replies. I see people all the time posting in gen chat about not liking the new difficulty.

If the devs and mods are just going to ignore a vocal majority of players who dislike these changes, they should expect the community to get worse.

And the playerbase of an mmo is what drives an mmo, not just a devteam. Forgetting that is how even the biggest mmos lose massive numbers.

The irony of you chastising me for "assuming" that people got better,  and then turning around and assuming that it's a vocal majority who opposed the changes, is hysterical. 

[atlasstar]

1 minute ago, Gunthug said:

The irony of you chastising me for "assuming" that people got better,  and then turning around and assuming that it's a vocal majority who opposed the changes, is hysterical. 

The irony of you saying this after 3 people vocally showed their disapproval of these changes is way funnier.

[epicdavenport]

I really don't understand why people are having trouble with the story. I beat it the day the update came out without breeding or ev training. 

[atlasstar]

3 minutes ago, epicdavenport said:

I really don't understand why people are having trouble with the story. I beat it the day the update came out without breeding or ev training. 

This kind of post is exactly the problem here, thanks for another one on the pile bud.

[Feralcaw]

Where did all the players go? strange i remember last time i played there were tons of people in every channel. huh. Really makes you think :thinking:

[axx]

9 hours ago, Kizhaz said:

I don't believe any staff member has used the term "git gud" so I don't know why you keep quoting it like we have.

check urself b4 u wreck urself

--

Yall should start thinking about pokemmo as something different from pokemon. In any other MMOs beating the bosses is not easy, you need to work strategies out and put the grind in. If somebody else did it, then its not impossible.

Edited December 5, 2017 by axx

[epicdavenport]

Just now, atlasstar said:

This kind of post is exactly the problem here, thanks for another one on the pile bud.

Why is it a problem? Give an in depth explanation as to why I could beat it in a day abiding by level caps, no breeding, no bringing pokes over, not spending a ton of money on potions, etc. is a problem. The original games were beyond easy and the devs have tried making pve content a challenge and it's still barely that.

[XelaKebert]

Ok, so there seems to be a glaring misunderstanding in here. Well a couple at that. The first is misinterpreting simple jokes from some staff members as bullying. It is not any staff member's intention to bully anyone or make them feel bullied.

 

The second being the point behind me using only Spinda. It started off as a simple joke. Instead I decided to yolo it through the storyline like that anyway. Is it hard? Yes, but that's not why I brought it up. I brought it up because of the feeling that players are being forced to learn comp when they don't want to. None of the Spinda I am using, barring 1, are even remotely good. Hell, I probably won't even beat the elite 4, but I am still going to try because I want to.

 

There have been a lot of good tips to help players truck through posted on here. If you want to have an easier time you should look at what has been posted. If you don't care for advice then I really don't have anything else to say. The reason for the difficulty curve is because plans for future content won't be any easier than the storyline. Bear in mind that the original games were designed primarily for single player. There was no need to worry about things like balancing difficulty. That is not the case here. There has to be balance. Is it perfect? No, but it is a step towards where the game should be heading.

[Roundabout]

20 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

The reason for the difficulty curve is because plans for future content won't be any easier than the storyline. Bear in mind that the original games were designed primarily for single player. There was no need to worry about things like balancing difficulty. That is not the case here. There has to be balance. Is it perfect? No, but it is a step towards where the game should be heading.

If by future content you mean legendary dungeons then it's fine if they are hard, because it would be super rewarding for players to finish them and get a legendary pokemon or some other cool reward, so casuals might want to finally "get good" to beat them, but forcing everyone to "get good" and grind a lot to just beat the storyline is plain stupid imo, for the reason described above.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Roundabout