legendary dungeons

[fredrichnietze]

ok so legendary dungeons idea round two. 

 

procedural generated dungeon on server side. everyone on pokemmo will have the same map at the same time. once every 1-2 hours or whatever the map will be refreshed and everyone not in a battle will be kicked out of the dungeon. the dungeon will then be re-generated . in this dungeon their will be "prize rooms". one of these will have the legendary, and the rest will have other goodies. the prize room goodies will be on a scale. level 1 will be given to the first person or couple people to find it. level two for a few after that. ect. this rewards getting to the prize room as quickly as possible, but also limit the amount of stuff that can be mined from the dungeon. maybe have it on a set scale or maybe scale it with the number of players in a dungeon idk this requires testing imo to get that right. with the size of the maze and all the dead ends you on your own will sometimes find a few prize rooms but sometimes not find any. whats more interesting is playing in groups. with multiple people you can divide up the maze and map it as a team to increase the chance of finding what you want. however the more people who find the prize rooms the worse the prize. and ofc the puzzles ds talked about proceduraly placed in and decent degree of difficulty with random encounters.

 

also since their was talk about ONLY being able to get hidden ability pokemon in the dungeons which are then unbreedable, maybe have a prize room with a good IV HA poke inside. ofc have it scale with the number of players who find it so the first few people will get comps or near comps and the rest will just get a good breeder. maybe have different Pokemon available in different dungeons so you can grind a specific dungeon if you need say a swarm galvantula. you could catch a hundred or three hundred and hope to get lucky, but if you find the right room quickly enough you can maybe get the comp you want. 

 

and for the loot bags or whatever, i like the idea of several type of mystery boxes with various things in them, so even if you get a shitty box you have a small percent chance of pulling a good vanity or something out of them. the mystery box idea was good idea but it's a gamble with buying them for cash so not as many people buy them. getting say the gold mystery box or the platinum one with a very good chance of at least getting something worth your time invested and maybe something really good like a rare vanity or a masterball could be fun to get and open. 

 

thoughts? goal of this idea is to make something you can grind over and over and will want to with friends but can grind by yourself. make it hard but doable and rewarding but not damage the economy. 

[superpichu999]

5 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

ONLY being able to get hidden ability pokemon in the dungeons which are then unbreedable

Pretty sure i heard that you can breed them

 

Other then that, this idea seems good. Just would be hard to code right.

Edited November 19, 2017 by superpichu999

[Quakkz]

yeah u can breed them and im pretty sure that the dungeons are already developed and about to hit in 3-4 months according to devs, so i doubt that they will do drastic changes to their concept now

[Kite]

procedural generated dungeon on server side. everyone on pokemmo will have the same map at the same time. once every 1-2 hours or whatever the map will be refreshed and everyone not in a battle will be kicked out of the dungeon.

This I can't really agree with. It would be better for their to be multiple dungeons this way people can do whatever dungeon they wish. I mean just imagine you're so close to the end, just to be kicked out. Then you would get screwed by rewards.

[fredrichnietze]

1 minute ago, Kite said:

procedural generated dungeon on server side. everyone on pokemmo will have the same map at the same time. once every 1-2 hours or whatever the map will be refreshed and everyone not in a battle will be kicked out of the dungeon.

This I can't really agree with. It would be better for their to be multiple dungeons this way people can do whatever dungeon they wish. I mean just imagine you're so close to the end, just to be kicked out. Then you would get screwed by rewards.

right different maps for each dungeon not one map for all dungeons. but without the time limit you can get everything for sure unless they up the difficulty of being in the dungeon to the point where you need all 100's comps with perfect iv's and movesets to just barely get to all the rooms unless you get crit. that level of difficulty is kinda shitty, especially for new players who dont understand say iv's and evs. this way it is difficult to get the stuff you want because you dont know where to go and it's too big and not enough time to go everywhere. you dont want players to have enough time to go to every single prize room or even half because then you are giving them too much for not enough work, unless you nerf the prizes. high risk high(erish) reward

[Kite]

9 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

right different maps for each dungeon not one map for all dungeons. but without the time limit you can get everything for sure unless they up the difficulty of being in the dungeon to the point where you need all 100's comps with perfect iv's and movesets to just barely get to all the rooms unless you get crit. that level of difficulty is kinda shitty, especially for new players who dont understand say iv's and evs. this way it is difficult to get the stuff you want because you dont know where to go and it's too big and not enough time to go everywhere. you dont want players to have enough time to go to every single prize room or even half because then you are giving them too much for not enough work, unless you nerf the prizes. high risk high(erish) reward

What you're suggesting sounds like for example, 1 Entrance and the Dungeon changes every 1 hour to 2 hours. Some people may enter 15 minutes before it changes and again they get close to the end they would get screwed. What I'm more or less suggesting is that it doesn't kick those players out but anyone who isn't in a dungeon would be going to the new generated dungeon while everyone in the old dungeon would can finish whats in there. 

Or there is multiple dungeons that have their own entrances and players can pick what dungeon they wish to go into. A lot like WoW Dungeons to eliminate the possible punishment for a player going in a dungeon late. If its gone down this route, make certain dungeons open throughout the day for so long and if a person and if a person enters 1 min before it closes they can still complete the dungeon. But after it closes no one else can enter. 

[fredrichnietze]

Just now, Kite said:

What you're suggesting sounds like for example, 1 Entrance and the Dungeon changes every 1 hour to 2 hours. Some people may enter 15 minutes before it changes and again they get close to the end they would get screwed

yes this is the idea. you want to enter at the beginning of the dungeon cycle. entering at the end would be a waste of time. 

 

1 minute ago, Kite said:

What I'm more or less suggesting is that it doesn't kick those players out but anyone who isn't in a dungeon would be going to the new generated dungeon while everyone in the old dungeon would can finish whats in there. 

the problem i see with this is then a good team could get to every single prize room. to counter this the prizes would have to be lower in value, or the difficulty would have to be hard enough that you would loose and get kicked out before you get to them all. either way is inferior to just entering at a specific time like with tourneys. 

 

for the multi dungeon idea you could either

• have each dungeon on a different refresh time so one dungeon refreshes every say 15 minutes, giving you A option (if not the preferred one) if your group has to do it at a specific time
• have every dungeon refresh every say 15 minutes, and have everyone in the dungeon stay their for X amount of time. 

the first idea is preferable the second one has the problem of increased server system resources indefinitely. the second idea also could get more difficult with the prize scaling as the first person in the dungeon would have a massive advantage over the last. 

[Kite]

2 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

yes this is the idea. you want to enter at the beginning of the dungeon cycle. entering at the end would be a waste of time. 

 

the problem i see with this is then a good team could get to every single prize room. to counter this the prizes would have to be lower in value, or the difficulty would have to be hard enough that you would loose and get kicked out before you get to them all. either way is inferior to just entering at a specific time like with tourneys. 

 

for the multi dungeon idea you could either

• have each dungeon on a different refresh time so one dungeon refreshes every say 15 minutes, giving you A option (if not the preferred one) if your group has to do it at a specific time
• have every dungeon refresh every say 15 minutes, and have everyone in the dungeon stay their for X amount of time. 

the first idea is preferable the second one has the problem of increased server system resources indefinitely. the second idea also could get more difficult with the prize scaling as the first person in the dungeon would have a massive advantage over the last. 

If a good team is in a dungeon, then they should be rewarded with all the prizes. If a person can get all the prizes they should be able to. There is nothing wrong with that. Now what is wrong is if EVERYONE is able to get all the prizes all the time. This shows that the dungeon is weak and needs to be re balanced since it would be considered "too easy". Obviously over time when we can obtain "Legendary Pokemon" the dungeons will get easier which is inevitable. 

(I know I keep comparing WoW to PokeMMO but in this case what most people are used to is something like WoW's dungeon system at least I am)

Dungeons in WoW have Trash Mobs and Bosses. The Bosses give loot when they are killed that you can obtain that is say an upgrade. You do not have a time limit of completing the dungeon cause they are meant to be completed as should Legendary Dungeons.

Say you enter a Dungeon in WoW. Say there is 5 groups of Trash Mobs  in each room between bosses. Then 1 group in front of the bosses. There is 4 Bosses. You have 10 minutes to finish the dungeon. On average you will end up (depending on the group of course) using about 2 minutes clearing a room of Mobs just enough mobs to get to the next room safely.  Then Spend about 30 seconds to clear a group of mobs in the boss. Then you'd end up spending 3-5 minutes killing a boss. You already used up half your time just dealing with 1 boss. Especially when the gear you need for an upgrade is an item that drops from the 3rd or even the 4th boss. It would just frustrate players more. This is just with your idea of a time limit of what would happen.

This is especially true when no one knows where to go in the dungeon when its a custom map in PokeMMO.

Now lets say from 8 AM Server Time (not Game Time) to 11 AM Server Time (Not Game Time) a Latias Dungeon opens up. Once you defeat the Latias a Chest will appear which will give you the choice of 1 of 2 things. Latias or Soul Dew but you also are able to get other misc items from the chest. Once you received your loot you'll be teleported to the entrance. Then also place a limit of you can only enter a Legendary Dungeon once a day.

Then from 11 AM Server Time to 2 PM Server Time a Latios Dungeon Opens up which would follow the same concept above. 

Feel like I just rambled and repeated myself oh well :x

Edited November 19, 2017 by Kite

[fredrichnietze]

1 minute ago, Kite said:

Then also place a limit of you can only enter a Legendary Dungeon once a day

why thou?

 

2 minutes ago, Kite said:

If a good team is in a dungeon, then they should be reworded with all the prizes. If a person can get all the prizes they should be able to. There is nothing wrong with that. Now what is wrong is if EVERYONE is able to get all the prizes all the time. This shows that the dungeon is weak and needs to be re balanced since it would be considered "too easy". Obviously over time when we can obtain "Legendary Pokemon" the dungeons will get easier which is inevitable. 

this is a balancing thing. you can balance it where the "good team" reward level is a couple prize rooms" or all the prize rooms. btu the reward will be the same. i would prefer a bigger overall dungeon with more reward rooms spaced far apart, but where finding one or two would be worth your time, as opposed to having to find all of them in a smaller dungeon. especially with bigger groups the bigger dungeon would be better. but also this way the risk of finding nothing at all is a bit bigger especially if you get lost and research somewhere you already searched. you just got to get good at making maps as you go. 

[Kite]

19 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

why thou?

 

this is a balancing thing. you can balance it where the "good team" reward level is a couple prize rooms" or all the prize rooms. btu the reward will be the same. i would prefer a bigger overall dungeon with more reward rooms spaced far apart, but where finding one or two would be worth your time, as opposed to having to find all of them in a smaller dungeon. especially with bigger groups the bigger dungeon would be better. but also this way the risk of finding nothing at all is a bit bigger especially if you get lost and research somewhere you already searched. you just got to get good at making maps as you go. 

Why simple, imagine for a second if you have unlimited runs. Enter a Legendary Dungeon obtain a Legendary pokemon say Latias. Say the dungeon takes you 20 minutes to complete (being generous) then if you're able to catch Latias each time, then you would in a 2 hour window you would have 10 Latias + who knows what else from those runs which would and could ruin the economy. Making it 1 attempt each day makes players think which Legendary Dungeon would suit them best. Lets say there is 6 Legendary Dungeons to start off with and in each dungeon is only 1 Legendary in the final Room. Say the Legendary Dungeons have a Latias Dungeon, a Latios Dungeon, a Suicune Dungeon,  a Thunderous dungeon, a Landorous dugeon, and a Zapdos dungeon with each of those dungeons with their own hordes that are unique to each other. This will encourage trading with people even more or utilizing the GTL even more. 

But you want Bigger Dungeons which is fine, but yet you want to place a Time Limit on them? You would spend more time traveling using up the Time Limit than actually going for the end game goal of said dungeon which is to be completed. The size doesn't matter all that much as long as it performs its function well. And with a Time Limit placed a bigger dungeon won't perform its function as well as it could. What if a dungeon was excessively big? For example, it would take you 10 minutes to get across the room obviously a dungeon that big is really absurd.

[fredrichnietze]

3 minutes ago, Kite said:

Why simple, imagine for a second if you have unlimited runs. Enter a Legendary Dungeon obtain a Legendary pokemon say Latias. Say the dungeon takes you 20 minutes to complete (being generous) then if you're able to catch Latias each time, then you would in a 2 hour window you would have 10 Latias + who knows what else from those runs which would and could ruin the economy. Making it 1 attempt each day makes players think which Legendary Dungeon would suit them best. Lets say there is 6 Legendary Dungeons to start off with and in each dungeon is only 1 Legendary in the final Room. Say the Legendary Dungeons have a Latias Dungeon, a Latios Dungeon, a Suicune Dungeon,  a Thunderous dungeon, a Landorous dugeon, and a Zapdos dungeon with each of those dungeons with their own hordes that are unique to each other. This will encourage trading with people even more or utilizing the GTL even more. 

But you want Bigger Dungeons which is fine, but yet you want to place a Time Limit on them? You would spend more time traveling using up the Time Limit than actually going for the end game goal of said dungeon which is to be completed. The size doesn't matter all that much as long as it performs its function well. And with a Time Limit placed a bigger dungeon won't perform its function as well as it could. What if a dungeon was excessively big? For example, it would take you 10 minutes to get across the room obviously a dungeon that big is really absurd.

 

the idea is finding then catching that latios should take much longer then 20 minutes.  a hour or so going the most direct route, and you dont know the most direct route, so you wont find it every time. im not talking a linear path here but a being dropped in the middle of a maze that goes off in every direction with many many paths. that way the difficulty of the dungeon is both navigating the maze and the pokemon their, not just super hard dial the scale to 11 hordes of level 100's. the time limit needs to be in place for this to work. you are not supposed to be able to search the entire dungeon ever by yourself in any condition. make it feel bigger but also difficult.  

player unknown battle ground has a impossibly big map and you can no see all of it and you do not know where you enemies are. they could be anywhere so you are always paying attention looking everywhere because they could be anywhere even knowing that the map is huge and odds are at any given time no one is near you. this makes the game that is 8/10 of the time looking for a fight feel tense and dangerous and exciting. 

a prize room could be anywhere and you could be very close but you dont know until you find one. you dont know where it could be and so it's hard but also a bit exciting like pubg or say gambling because right around every corner could be that thing you want so badly. but unlike shinys you will actually find a prize room more often then not

 

[Kite]

29 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

 

the idea is finding then catching that latios should take much longer then 20 minutes.  a hour or so going the most direct route, and you dont know the most direct route, so you wont find it every time. im not talking a linear path here but a being dropped in the middle of a maze that goes off in every direction with many many paths. that way the difficulty of the dungeon is both navigating the maze and the pokemon their, not just super hard dial the scale to 11 hordes of level 100's. the time limit needs to be in place for this to work. you are not supposed to be able to search the entire dungeon ever by yourself in any condition. make it feel bigger but also difficult.  

player unknown battle ground has a impossibly big map and you can no see all of it and you do not know where you enemies are. they could be anywhere so you are always paying attention looking everywhere because they could be anywhere even knowing that the map is huge and odds are at any given time no one is near you. this makes the game that is 8/10 of the time looking for a fight feel tense and dangerous and exciting. 

a prize room could be anywhere and you could be very close but you dont know until you find one. you dont know where it could be and so it's hard but also a bit exciting like pubg or say gambling because right around every corner could be that thing you want so badly. but unlike shinys you will actually find a prize room more often then not

 

A time limit however doesn't make anything feel big or difficult. It just adds an annoyance factor, which again Dungeons should be able to be completed free from time limits.

[fredrichnietze]

1 hour ago, Kite said:

It just adds an annoyance factor,

why?

1 hour ago, Kite said:

Dungeons should be able to be completed free from time limits.

why thou?

 

with a time limit you have a big dungeon and it's a race to get as much as you can in the time you have. with no time limit it's just go everywhere and do everything before you faint. the time limit changes the entire game and is the only reason going in groups makes sense.

[Kite]

11 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

why?

why thou?

 

with a time limit you have a big dungeon and it's a race to get as much as you can in the time you have. with no time limit it's just go everywhere and do everything before you faint. the time limit changes the entire game and is the only reason going in groups makes sense.

Because it forces you to rush which shouldn't happen. In fact if it was timed I wouldn't bother with them cause Legendary Dungeons would not be worth it. I also already explained why dungeons should be completed by everyone. It isn't a race to the end to get your HA pokemons or even a legendary pokemon. There is absolutely no reason to rush.

[fredrichnietze]

10 minutes ago, Kite said:

Because it forces you to rush which shouldn't happen. In fact if it was timed I wouldn't bother with them cause Legendary Dungeons would not be worth it. I also already explained why dungeons should be completed by everyone. It isn't a race to the end to get your HA pokemons or even a legendary pokemon. There is absolutely no reason to rush.

i think we are at a impasse. fundamental disagreements on what is a more enjoyable. understandable have a nice day.