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Elite 4 totally broken

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9 minutes ago, milluki said:

But there is no logic in calling it a problem. You don't gain anything from beating elite four therefore it's a bad investment if you invest pokemon to beat it. If pvp is someone's goal, it would be better to just beat elite four as fast as possible and actually make pokemon for pvp.

Making 1x31 starmie with nature is like 30k cost which is trully small. The point is not to aim in people who want to start pvp right after storyline but to keep those who don't think about it and never had expirience in it. If someone aims in pvp from the very beggining e4 shouldn't be a problem.

Edited by WestTurtle
Writing on phone lol

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NikhilR   

Storyline was hard af. I couldn't beat the regular gyms without buying pokemon from the GTL to specifically beat certain gym leaders, and I'm quite sure that I wouldn't have beaten e4 without having level 50 comps. Even then I had to use items like max revive, hyper potions etc. You need to also stock up on leppas / ethers because those fgts use max potions / full restores which continuously drains your pp too. I completely understand why the e4 would be hard for the casual player / shiny hunter. 

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4 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

Storyline was hard af. I couldn't beat the regular gyms without buying pokemon from the GTL to specifically beat certain gym leaders, and I'm quite sure that I wouldn't have beaten e4 without having level 50 comps. Even then I had to use items like max revive, hyper potions etc. You need to also stock up on leppas / ethers because those fgts use max potions / full restores which continuously drains your pp too. I completely understand why the e4 would be hard for the casual player / shiny hunter. 

I'm just curious cause u didn't say that. Do you think that having harder storyline than what we had before is bad?

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Petalia   

Only concern is I've heard people are having trouble with full lvl 100 teams beating the rematch e4's, I guess I'll have to try it myself eventually.

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pachima   

I have no idea why people think making e4 harder is a preparation for pvp. It´s like claiming making an harder mechanic test prepares you for Biology.

Mindset while PvEing and PvPing is entirely different. A lot of people like to challenge e4 for fun and not for some kind of preparation for PvP that actually doesn´t prepare you at all. I feel those people are gettng too much of an hard time. Also, you guys make e4 sound too easy when in fact, you all confirm the same thing: You need to prepare for it. Someone that enjoys play pokemon for fun and doesnt care about competitive play will use the pokemons they like. I´m pretty sure forcing them to run something just because the other thing can´t deal with E4 is pushing it too far. Long time ago, I used to play pokemon like that, so I can´t forget. Unfortunately, you all did.

Also, forcing someone to prepare for e4 is a big lie and a mispreparation, since if they think can prepare the same way to PvP, they are completely mistaken.

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NikhilR   
Just now, WestTurtle said:

I'm just curious cause u didn't say that. Do you think that having harder storyline than what we had before is bad?

Yes, because I don't play this game for the storyline and it was unnecessarily burdensome + time consuming. 

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Raichu4u   

I feel like honestly the best trade off here would be making the round 1 for Elite 4/Gym leaders closer to pretty much the vanilla game, then keeping all rematches hard and competitive.

 

This is pretty much how it was for Firered and Hoenn before the patches. I don't get why people are somehow justifying the new difficulty spike because our overlords created it.

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Munya   
1 minute ago, pachima said:

I have no idea why people think making e4 harder is a preparation for pvp. It´s like claiming making an harder mechanic test prepares you for Biology.

Mindset while PvEing and PvPing is entirely different. A lot of people like to challenge e4 for fun and not for some kind of preparation for PvP that actually doesn´t prepare you at all. I feel those people are gettng too much of an hard time. Also, you guys make e4 sound too easy when in fact, you all confirm the same thing: You need to prepare for it. Someone that enjoys play pokemon for fun and doesnt care about competitive play will use the pokemons they like. I´m pretty sure forcing them to run something just because the other thing can´t deal with E4 is pushing it too far. Long time ago, I used to play pokemon like that, so I can´t forget. Unfortunately, you all did.

Also, forcing someone to prepare for e4 is a big lie and a mispreparation, since if they think can prepare the same way to PvP, they are completely mistaken.

Its not even just preparing them for PvP, its preparing them for end game content in the future, dungeons are very likely not going to be any easier than what a player would experience in the elite 4.  It does prepare you for PvP in ways though, gyms, trainers, elite 4, they all teach the player what works and what doesn't, what is effective against what and whats not. The player may not entirely realize it themselves but it does.

 

Again though, I also re-iterate that no extra preparation is needed, maybe a little grinding in some players cases if they are having difficulties but so what?  They are very beatable with absolutely 0 extra grinding using only stuff you obtain in Unova.

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I had a team of 5 pokemon that i caught in unova for the unova e4, Serperior, Conkeldurr, Excadrill, Haxorus, and Renuculus, and i beat it pretty easily, not even at level cap for them. Only person i had issues with was Ghetsis, cause of his pokegened Hydreigon, in which i just got my curselax and beat him. Even then i could easily see my self beating him without the comp with a little more time to level them. Seriously its not hard. Kanto/Hoenn idk about.

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Toupi   

I thought E4 members are four Pokémon Trainers who are regarded as the toughest in their regional Pokémon League :/ Looks like for most ppl it's 4 random scrubs that you can walk over with hands in your pocket.

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pachima   
15 minutes ago, Munya said:

Its not even just preparing them for PvP, its preparing them for end game content in the future, dungeons are very likely not going to be any easier than what a player would experience in the elite 4.  It does prepare you for PvP in ways though, gyms, trainers, elite 4, they all teach the player what works and what doesn't, what is effective against what and whats not. The player may not entirely realize it themselves but it does.

 

Again though, I also re-iterate that no extra preparation is needed, maybe a little grinding in some players cases if they are having difficulties but so what?  They are very beatable with absolutely 0 extra grinding using only stuff you obtain in Unova.

I understand that , but come on. A lot of people play with the pokemon they actually like. I dare you to beat unova e4 with serperior, simisage, emolga, heatmor, bouffalant, and Stunfisk. 

You can´t, unless you supply yourself with a big truck of healing items. That´s not how pokemon should be. The problem here is that you are trying to make things better for everyone, well YOU CAN´T!!

It would make much more sense to actually make the e4 competitively wise on the second try, for every reason you said earlier, but on the first one kek.

I feel some players are being tossed aside, which I don´t think a game should provide. But that´s just my opinion.

For future dungeons, unlike E4, are not a must-complete content. Everyone do those if they want, and if they like. This e4 pretty much force some players to do what they don´t like in order to unlock some stuff. 

You might think I don´t know what I am talking about, but when we were doing our E4 run, we messed it up mostly because this whole problem. We wanted it for everyone, in the end, we made it for no1. It´s pretty much what you are doing here. Comp players have no trouble beating this E4, and are actually wasting more time than they would like cause of it. Casuals that play for fun have the trouble mentioned above.

PS: My "you" refers to everyone in general, not you in particular

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Tato99   

I myself had to buy/use some pokes out of the unova region, like normal lanturn, treecko (that I evolved) but still had to go to Unova to lvl them all to 56.. Even then was hard

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I haven't reached Unova E4 yet, but here's my opinion : Nerf the E4 run for the first timers and make the rematches competitive and hard, you'll have to do them anyway to become champion and face Alder  right?, why make  Unova the Pokemon Colosseum of the three regions?

 

Dev team will have plenty of opportunities to actually make the players go full competitive in their multiplayer and legendary dungeons, i remember that the Christmas Santa's event dungeon was pretty tricky and i never cleared back then.

 

I think the simplest way to ease up on the difficulty of Unova E4 is raising the level cap.

 

Thanks.

Edited by romanticmisery

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Alexamor   

I only used comps AFTER the 8th gym and I just used my 31x1 or 31x2 breeders (they were not even that good) and everything was really easy for me. it just required a little bit of thinking, the game was actually exciting which wasn't the case earlier when I was sweeping hoen when it came out and that sucked and I think people just exaggerate the difficulty because people are used to ohko pokes while farming. I don't even enjoy PVE for the most part but this time it was fun as it required me to think and battle like I was fighting a real player and that is how it should be! and I had no problem except for skyla, 8th gym,cheren, ghetsis and N still I was able to beat them in my 2nd or 3rd trial while I am a complete noob to gen4+ and I would say there is no need to change this level cap system AT ALL!
 

This was my first pokemon game and i had a tough time learning comp (like 2 years ago) and I think something like this might have helped, I am liking the whole idea of getting new players to make smart move and I am all up for those dungeons make sure to make them hard af!

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21 hours ago, Munya said:

Again though, I also re-iterate that no extra preparation is needed, maybe a little grinding in some players cases if they are having difficulties but so what?  They are very beatable with absolutely 0 extra grinding using only stuff you obtain in Unova.

This is completely false.

 

I battled every trainer and even defeated every wild encounter, but conkeldurr/samurott/galvantula/chandelure/klang all got oneshotted by first E4 member's chandelure.

 

I don't mind the difficulty honestly, but let's not make false statements either.

 

You have to grind. Or get comps.

Edited by Tranzmaster

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xStarr   

Do suicide runs to get exp or grind the Fuck outta Dem Durant hordes.  

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My advice? Play Kanto first, it offers a lot of ground to cover and Vs Seeker means you can rebattle almost everyone in there, once you clear its story you'll be able to return to it wherever you're in Unova or Hoenn and need a few levels - That's how i did in Hoenn when i needed extra exp and thats how i'll eventually do in Unova.

 

Consider raising the level cap, devs, people aren't complaining without a reason.

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Munya   
46 minutes ago, Tranzmaster said:

This is completely false.

 

I battled every trainer and even defeated every wild encounter, but conkeldurr/samurott/galvantula/chandelure/klang all got oneshotted by first E4 member's chandelure.

 

I don't mind the difficulty honestly, but let's not make false statements either.

 

You have to grind. Or get comps.

Did you have 5 or 6 pokemon, I used 5, with 5 no grinding is necessary.

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21 minutes ago, Munya said:

Did you have 5 or 6 pokemon, I used 5, with 5 no grinding is necessary.

I have 5 but I'll be honest I did get rid of a level 35 zebstrika and a level 35 simisear midrun and went with others.  So maybe if the wasted exp there went into my main team I would have had less of a hard time. I see your point.

 

That still doesn't take away that there are a lot of players share the same experience of not being able to complete the pokemon league without taking great measures. I mean, if the game forces you to not change 1 poke in your lineup and you can't even go with 6 pokes, then that's pretty weird.

 

Just to clarify again though: I don't mind grinding at all, I like the game how it is now, the difficulty is nice and the update is great but I can understand it being annoying for some.

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Raichu4u   

It seems silly when some people are basically suggesting to use OU staples on your team just to beat the Elite 4, like Salamence, Ttar, Milotic, etc, when I thought the point of PvE was the ability to have more fun with your team and be creative with Pokemon that aren't as viable.

 

And it's just funny how people are saying that beating the Elite 4 is a preparation to good PvP skills when honestly preparing for that takes a lot of study of the metagame itself. A highly amped up version of the Elite 4 to where they will spam Full Restores (when it costs an arm and a leg for the player to even have the ability to use them for four consecutive battles in a row), get favorable IV's, EV's, natures, and items, and have their parties expanded isn't going to be teaching the player much.

 

I think the developers have to realize that some people strictly want to stay casual and don't have the time to invest themselves into learning how to play competitive either. As a person who loves competitive play, the choices for Round 1 of Elite 4 seem to he harmful to Pokemmo's casual base. I don't get why anyone isn't signing off on having round one be near the same as vanilla, and having the rematches actually be hard.

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You aren't forced to learn comp at all. You are being forced to actually consider your moves and teams. I've beaten 3 gyms so far using only Spinda and not a single one of them are comp or even ev trained.

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pachima   
44 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

You aren't forced to learn comp at all. You are being forced to actually consider your moves and teams. I've beaten 3 gyms so far using only Spinda and not a single one of them are comp or even ev trained.

gl beating e4 with spindas lmao.

edit: lets be honest, first 4 gyms are easy as damn. You will notice a damn skyrocket increase in difficult since the 6th gym with a 6 spinda team, and I doubt you can beat e4 without massive healing items, unless AI plays dumb.

Edited by pachima

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