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Elite 4 totally broken


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3 hours ago, Raichu4u said:

It seems silly when some people are basically suggesting to use OU staples on your team just to beat the Elite 4, like Salamence, Ttar, Milotic, etc

I get through Crawdaunt(50lv),Exeggutor(50lv) and Kanga(54lv). Crawdaunt soloed, 2last guys, entire ghost, almost entire psychic and more than half of dark.

1) They are not even from OU

2) Have you ever seen me in any tournament? No, because Im bad and i dont usually play comp

3) Yes i did use revive/potions, outside of battle and twice (while the second time was after last E4 member because i didnt know i will be able to heal in a minute)

3 hours ago, Raichu4u said:

I thought the point of PvE was the ability to have more fun with your team and be creative with Pokemon that aren't as viable.

If you wanted to make it more challenging by picking not "viable" pokemons then dont be shocked it's not tap X to win.

I dont see anything wrong with Most Elite Trainers in region creating a challange. 

Yes Pve here is harder from original games(which i bet everyone from here beat with finger in his bum) but i fail to see why this is a problem

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37 minutes ago, Toupi said:

If you wanted to make it more challenging by picking not "viable" pokemons then dont be shocked it's not tap X to win.

3

Viable pokemon shouldn´t even be a thing to deal with storyline to start with. Kids are actually taught that they can overcome the challenges in a pokemon game with the pokemon they like, with the friendship they share with them (See Ash + Pikachu).

 

If you still don´t understand, imagine you are a kid that loves pachirisu(who doesn´t) and loves them, then try to beat unova with 6 of them in the current state (Good luck with that). If people want some harder aspect whilst still not going for pure pvp, Battle frontier is there for a reason. 

Also, here is another question for you. You, as a player, find about this game today. You like stuff like nuzlockes, which are even more fun on a mmo like this than on handhelds. Now, said player comes to this thread and reads about how hard storyline has become for them. Would you still play this game?  I can guarantee you most of those won´t, which makes me make you a second question. Why would a game make people not play it?

I am not telling devs to make the crappiest E4 which can be beaten with 6 level 12 negative magikarp, but at least make it at least really hard for some players that will not want to use said "viable" pokes, since the way it is now, its not really hard, its almost impossible. Gyms right now are harder than before, but are feasible even under such circumstances. E4, however, are not.

If you want E4 to prepare players for OPTIONAL future content, make it for the 2nd try or above. Hell, there is a reason why E4 is this easy in handhelds, have you not thought about it?

EDIT: somehow first post went messed up.

Edited by pachima
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1 minute ago, pachima said:

Viable pokemon shouldn´t even be a thing to deal with storyline to start with. Kids are actually taught that they can overcome the challenges in a pokemon game with the pokemon they like, with the friendship they share with them (See Ash + Pikachu)

Story of Ash teaches something like "You can be derp (who attack onix with electric attack) as long as you have OP pokemon"

1 minute ago, pachima said:

e4 on the second try or whatsoever, but never ever on the first. If you still don´t understand, imagine you are a kid that loves pachirisu(who doesn´t) and loves them, then try to beat unova with 6 of them in the current state. There is a reason why E4 was made this easy in handhelds. If people want some harder aspect whilst still not going for pure pvp, Battle frontier is there for a reason. 

Why love of Pachirisu is supported and love for example for caterpie is not? The current story is harder, this is true I wont argue with that, the thing i dont understand is complaining that peak of the story is harder than the rest. 

1 minute ago, pachima said:

Also, here is another question for you. You, as a player, find about this game today. You like stuff like nuzlockes, which are even more fun on a mmo like this than on handhelds. Now, said player comes to this thread and reads about how hard storyline has become for them. Would you still play this game?  I can guarantee you most of those won´t, which makes me make you a second question. Why would a game make people not play it?

I also have question for you. You, as a player, find about this game today. You don't like turning your brain off and getting through story mindlessly, which is even more fun on a mmo like this(with "no bullshit just games" as a subtitle) than on handhelds. Now, said player comes to this thread and reads about how easy storyline has become. Would you still play this game?  I can guarantee you most of those won´t, which makes me make you a second question. Why would a game make people not play it?

 

We can flip this argument all over the place, but there is no point to it.

1 minute ago, pachima said:

I am not telling devs to make the crappiest E4 which can be beaten with 6 level 12 negative magikarp, but at least make it at least really hard for some players that will not want to use said "viable" pokes, since the way it is now, its not really hard, its almost impossible. Gyms right now are harder than before, but are feasible even under such circumstances. E4, however, are not.

If you want E4 to prepare players for OPTIONAL future content, make it for the 2nd try or above. Hell, there is a reason why E4 is this easy in handhelds, have you not thought about it?

Maybe it will sound harsh but handhelds have different earning plan. They sell the game and that's it. PokeMMO for the other side wants to keep users. Letting them breeze through story and experience exactly what they experience during playing handhelds will keep them for as long as getting through 1/2/3regions takes. Giving a challenge forces user to:

a) Rage Quit

b) Try to explore Pokemon battle mechanics(maybe gets interested in battles more challenging than using STAB)

c) reaching out for ppl for help(maybe meet some cool ppl and stay for longer)

Don't get me wrong, im not saying these are the only options, or the things in bracket will happen for 100% of the time. My point is, making player to sweat a little and learn something about game could hook them for more. Which is good for all, for sweating dude, for Staff and for us (community) <- tl;dr

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All these people complaining about loving extra difficulty should try beating the game with 6 spindas like pachima has suggested. Not everyone likes to be forced down this level of difficulty, so if you enjoy it then keep challenging yourself by making it harder for yourself. I just saw someone selling 7 everstones in exchange for helping him beat the e4. Knowing how intensive the grind for everstones is, I feel bad for him. 

Edited by NikhilR
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3 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

All these people complaining about loving extra difficulty should try beating the game with 6 spindas like pachima has suggested. Not everyone likes to be forced down this level of difficulty, so if you enjoy it then keep challenging yourself by making it harder for yourself. I just saw someone selling 7 everstones in exchange for helping him beat the e4. Knowing how intensive the grind for everstones is, I feel bad for him. 

I bet nik scammed that man. 

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7 minutes ago, Toupi said:

Story of Ash teaches something like "You can be derp (who attack onix with electric attack) as long as you have OP pokemon"

Why love of Pachirisu is supported and love for example for caterpie is not? The current story is harder, this is true I wont argue with that, the thing i dont understand is complaining that peak of the story is harder than the rest. 

I also have question for you. You, as a player, find about this game today. You don't like turning your brain off and getting through story mindlessly, which is even more fun on a mmo like this(with "no bullshit just games" as a subtitle) than on handhelds. Now, said player comes to this thread and reads about how easy storyline has become. Would you still play this game?  I can guarantee you most of those won´t, which makes me make you a second question. Why would a game make people not play it?

11

I won´t probably post anymore cause I don´t want to repeat all over again, but I can tell you this.

1- E4 is much harder than the rest of the story.

2- If you don´t like turning your brain off, you shouldn´t aim at E4 at first place. If you have a great pokemon knowledge, you easily get through this story either way mindlessly. The way AI is coded makes it too damn easy to abuse pokemon that Sets up and proceed to sweep the universe mindlessly, as you said, so your argument falls right there.

More, hardening e4 in such a way just makes it even more annoying for people that play this for years and have nothing to learn from it. Everything it is doing is

 is dragging their time over needless things, while the victory is pretty much guaranteed either way.

On the other hand, people that do Nuzlockes or stuff like that, no matter how they wrap their head, they won´t be able to compete for E4, at least in a reasonable amount of effort and time spent.

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2 minutes ago, pachima said:

I won´t probably post anymore cause I don´t want to repeat all over again, but I can tell you this.

I hope someone will continue your thought(or it was only in case you will have to repeat yourself, which i hope you will not be forced to)

2 minutes ago, pachima said:

1- E4 is much harder than the rest of the story.

That's true, i think we can both agree on that

2 minutes ago, pachima said:

2- If you don´t like turning your brain off, you shouldn´t aim at E4 at first place. If you have a great pokemon knowledge, you easily get through this story either way mindlessly. The way AI is coded makes it too damn easy to abuse pokemon that Sets up and proceed to sweep the universe mindlessly, as you said, so your argument falls right there.

You can't "aim" at the E4, you go through story to unlock new region.

By mindlessly i mean the thing i was doing while clearing Gyms before an update. I was usually watching something on YT on one screen while spamming EQ/Rock Slide on the second. 

True, it's easy to setup on these bots as easy as it is to setup on normal AI but i think it fits more to "We need improved AI" discussion rather than "Bots are too difficult"

2 minutes ago, pachima said:

More, hardening e4 in such a way just makes it even more annoying for people that play this for years and have nothing to learn from it. Everything it is doing is

 is dragging their time over needless things, while the victory is pretty much guaranteed either way.

It's matter of time for every player. You can try as many times as you want, the only way to "lost" is to walk away from it.

2 minutes ago, pachima said:

On the other hand, people that do Nuzlockes or stuff like that, no matter how they wrap their head, they won´t be able to compete for E4, at least in a reasonable amount of effort and time spent.

SInce when anyone forces you to play Nuzlocke on PokeMMO, it's your choice. Make your mind, users should have choice to make it harder or not.

Oh come on, since when PokeMMO go for "a reasonable amount of effort and time spent.". CloneMMO was great environment for getting pokes in reasonable amount of effort and time and i doubt we will ever come back to this.

 

You can argue what should be easier(and probably how) and what could stay as it is but demanding they will dumb it down to handhelds level is at least wishful thinking.

I hope devs will not be suprised with armagedon on forum when they introduce Kid-mode with lesser rewards for dungeons(because everyone want to catch that zapdos! like in handhelds)

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3 hours ago, pachima said:

gl beating e4 with spindas lmao.

edit: lets be honest, first 4 gyms are easy as damn. You will notice a damn skyrocket increase in difficult since the 6th gym with a 6 spinda team, and I doubt you can beat e4 without massive healing items, unless AI plays dumb.

I am well aware. It took me 3 tries for Burgh and Lenora and 4 tries to brat N in Nimbasa. The point I'm making is that it's still possible to play how you want with the only change being that you have to actively be engaged in the battles now.

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I know this only applies to the Kanto Elite 4, but as of right now I have a spotty team of level 50's that consists of Blastoise, Donphan, Houndoom, Metagross, Crobat, and Exeggutor, all selected with good natures and IV's, and I can't even beat Lorlei's team without resorting to a ton of healing items.

EDIT: Isn't anyone also going to bring up that grinding to get your Pokemon at higher levels to compete with the Elite 4 is going to ruin any favorable EV spread you were trying to go for (Even if you managed to EV train throughout the storyline), while meanwhile the Elite 4 gets beneficially EV'd trained Pokemon?

Edited by Raichu4u
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On Sunday, November 19, 2017 at 10:13 PM, TheChampionMike said:

Trust me on this, you don't need comps to beat the e4. The AI tries to predict you. Try predicting the AI from time to time. Also just be prepared enough with some potions and revives.

Not sure if this applies to Gyms

Whenever I tried HP Elec on Slowbro, it switches out

Whenever I didn't, it never switches.

 

Is this intended?

 

Edit:

This doesn't affect my gym runs but if this is intended, similar AI may affect first-timers gym battle (or any NPC battle)

Edited by Riesz
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I personally believe most of the troubles anyone is having is due to unpreparedness on their part. My whole Unova team sucked ass, and by the end of Unova I was using my Hoenn team. That was all on me, because I didn't properly consider the strengths and weakness of my team. The only fights I found truly hard were N to an extent, and Ghetsis, who messed my shit up so many times I just ended up cheesing it with Double Team. Point being, I don't think it's as hard as some people are making it out to be, but there were some annoying bits, so whatever, I guess it could stand to be a little easier, but not so easy you can beat it with a team of Wurmples.

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Quote

and why the hell we must catch that dragon agian  now  we must even buy hyperballs too

 

well to be fair if you beat N and lose to ghetsis then come back you wont have to beat N again.And the catch rate has been reduced greatly because getting the dragon to red life then using an ultraball I catched the pokemon in first throw and at most I had to use 3 ultra balls.

 

Quote

Yes it is, I used a lvl 50 mence, and solo'ed with him. Not that hard.
 


 does that incluse n and ghetsis?

 

how many healing items did u use?

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I think "broken" is a smooth word to describe how insanelly hard E4 really is. It is impossible to win with a descent composition, even if you reach the maximum level capacity and bring tons of revives and hyper potions. I mean, Lorelei and Bruno are balanced and resemble a fair challenge, but Agatha's Gengar is ridiculous: it fainted each one of my level 62 pokemons with a single shadow ball. It is more than broken: it is utterly unfair!

 

People will say that is lack of knowledge but look my team: Cloyster, Gengar, Alakazam, Electabuzz, Machoke, Starmie. Electabuzz and Starmie's thunderbolts wipe easily Lorelei's mons. Alakazam deals with Bruno's fighting mons and Cloyster with Steelix. Agatha is the real problem: my Gengar and Alakazam takes advantage in ghost types, but also are weak against Agatha's mons, so the fight is decided in who attacks first: her mons are faster so she wreck each of my mons with a single attack. I didn't have much difficulty dealing with Lance, electric types and ice beams give a huge advantage above his dragons. Than comes the rival and wreck you with OP pokemons with perfect IVs.

 

No, definetlly, this is not what I call something balanced. My plan right now is start farming money and substitute Machoke for a Salamence and maybe buy a better Starmie (mine have shitty IVs). But that's ridiculous: competitive players interest lies on tournaments. E4 isn't supposed to demand competitive knowledge at all.   

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25 minutes ago, Auriden said:

People will say that is lack of knowledge but look my team: Cloyster, Gengar, Alakazam, Electabuzz, Machoke, Starmie. Electabuzz and Starmie's thunderbolts wipe easily Lorelei's mons. Alakazam deals with Bruno's fighting mons and Cloyster with Steelix. Agatha is the real problem: my Gengar and Alakazam takes advantage in ghost types, but also are weak against Agatha's mons

Maybe you should work on your teambuilding. Your only ghost type "checks" are extremely fragile and weak to ghost themselves, as you said. Your team is also lacking special bulk, so maybe instead of complaining you should get something that can handle ghosts, like a dark, steel or normal type with a ghost or dark damaging move.

 

31 minutes ago, Auriden said:

E4 isn't supposed to demand competitive knowledge at all.

It really doesn't, it just requires some thinking. If you can't manage that, I don't know what to tell you.

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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeDifficulty

 

And I get it that in Pokemmo the AI gers a buff across the board (which is nice, I will always accept a harder AI), but some of the changes of the Elite 4 literally falls under artificial difficulty, lmao.

 

Can I ask a developer what changes actually went into round 1 teams for the Elite 4? My main question is what are their IV's, EV's, and natures, because it seems incredibly unfair if their teams are perfect EV trained while meanwhile you as the player has to deal with the insanely weird and unoptimized EV spread you've aquired on your team from battling a plethora or Ratattas, Tentacuels, and Zubats.

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On 11/22/2017 at 3:05 PM, Weedle said:

What the mods and older players fail to realize is not everyone is a meta gaming pokemaster. Mods are trying to solve the lack of postgame content by turning the game content into postgame content, which will result is noobs getting crushed and leave. Pokemmo was already quite unwelcoming to new players. these changes are just going to make it worse.

No, no they are not. The game's storyline is meant to teach players and prepare them for post-game content that the devs have planned. It is not likely to be any easier than the storyline.

 

You are not being forced to metagame at all. If that was the case, I would not still be using 6 Spinda. While I am receiving some help with overcoming the more challenging gym leaders, it's still possible to use practically anything to beat the gyms.

 

It's about teaching players what works and what doesn't work. You learn from your losses and make adjustments accordingly. It is meant to encourage strategic thinking. The issue is the nostalgia factor. So many players come in remembering that the handhelds had a potato AI that you could very easily cheese. PokeMMO has not only rebalanced the AI but they have also changed teams up as well to make the game itself more of a challenge. The AI isn't even complete last I heard. If you notice, it heavily favors attacking moves except in circumstances where the move it does use recovers HP. Use those moments to either heal up or to buff your stats to hit harder. Of course you can also use moves like Encore to trap the AI into using moves that don't favor it at all, for example Encore Roost for Skyla. Don't be hard set on using the same team through the storyline. You may need to swap members at different points to cover the weak points of your current team.

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3 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

It's about teaching players what works and what doesn't work. You learn from your losses and make adjustments accordingly. It is meant to encourage strategic thinking. 

I learned then if I switch my flygon into a jolteon's Tbolt, he ll never use HP ice or switch-out while I am using DD. I am a better player now 8)

Edited by Risadex
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Wasn't particularly hard, least harder than the other regions in comparison. Granted i used some old bred pokes (which they were shit) back from 2013 but thats about it. The pokes i caught in unova did most of the work during the storyline. GYM types, E4 types are all available. You can easily make yourself a counter-force to deal with them with pokemon available in Unova. 
Unless you're trying to defeat the Dark gym with psychic type and ghost with a normal type. Then yeah, u gonna get ur asses kicked. 


And if you're like ; "but uhhhh, i wanna defeat the game with my favorite pokemanz and be like awesome hurdurr"

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