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NU Tier Discussion Request Thread


Munya

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51 minutes ago, DrButler said:

alright, someone pls hit me up with reliable bibarel checks that arent fkn garbage in a zard, emboar, durant infested meta; so no tangrowth, no tangela, no frillish and pls no "you can run kanga every game". thx in advance.

I'm not saying it is great.. but this works
0e0d8ddde761214aedb7b10b681bef5a.png

 

I think there is Seismitoad as well.. 
A pokemon with intimidate 
Maybe Poliwrath 
Unaware Swoobat? Bit funny xD

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10 minutes ago, MHkaserz said:

I think there is Seismitoad as well.. 
A pokemon with intimidate 
Maybe Poliwrath 
Unaware Swoobat? Bit funny xD

biba can just return, which i just missed reading the first time.

 

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 186-220 (87.7 - 103.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

no good intimidate mons imo.

 

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 160-190 (81.2 - 96.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

- takes one, but cant be worn down before then.

 

i legit considered swoobat before, but didnt see it do too well. maybe ill look into it again.

 

___

tbh this was my "zard is broken" - just ranted cause i fkn suck at taking losses sometimes. thanks for taking ur time tho^^

Edited by DrButler
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7 hours ago, DarylDixon said:

nah the problem isn't zard control, the real problem are rocks

Not sure if a joke about the whole “Zard is broken” thing xD

I said “hazard” as in rocks, spikes and toxic spikes

Since they obliterate shedninja, but it was a joke anyway

 

Tbh the turn it takes to setup should be punished in some form

And then a priority attack into a sucker punch maybe finishes it

I don’t think a bib is that strong, a BIDOOF tho, that’s a different story.

 

GOD. BIDOOF.

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21 hours ago, DrButler said:

biba can just return, which i just missed reading the first time.

 

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 186-220 (87.7 - 103.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

no good intimidate mons imo.

 

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 160-190 (81.2 - 96.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

- takes one, but cant be worn down before then.

 

i legit considered swoobat before, but didnt see it do too well. maybe ill look into it again.

 

___

tbh this was my "zard is broken" - just ranted cause i fkn suck at taking losses sometimes. thanks for taking ur time tho^^

bibarel leftovers? pls, if u use life orb not have counter this shit

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13 hours ago, MHkaserz said:

I know! Shedninja walls it indefinitely. Just make sure to have hazard control xD

frillish and shedi get sniped by crunch.

 

12 hours ago, DarylDixon said:

Pokes like, metang,tangrowth can wall it, also bold cradily would be amazing to wall it but... storm drain is h.a, thats  why dis game sucks without h.a mons :c

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Metang: 82-97 (49.1 - 58%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Metang Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bibarel: 68-80 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Metang Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bibarel: 98-116 (63.6 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

Tangrowth is terrible rn. I mean what does Tangrowth do? Apart from switching into stuff to take a hit (w/o regen) and leech or knock off i mean.

 

39 minutes ago, mago1993 said:

bibarel leftovers? pls, if u use life orb not have counter this shit

those are sash calcs.

Edited by DrButler
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Let's give it a moment and time to adapt. Usually one threat rises and then people are starting to include a pokemon in their teams to counter it and fill a second role. Eviolite Tangela (and Tangrowth in general) stand out the most currently, additionally we received team preview very recently. If it will stay as a threat and will wreak havoc when everything settles down, then imo we should focus our attention on it.

 

Spoiler

for now let's just ban dugtrio

 

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31 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Let's give it a moment and time to adapt. Usually one threat rises and then people are starting to include a pokemon in their teams to counter it and fill a second role. Eviolite Tangela (and Tangrowth in general) stand out the most currently, additionally we received team preview very recently. If it will stay as a threat and will wreak havoc when everything settles down, then imo we should focus our attention on it.

 

  Hide contents

for now let's just ban dugtrio

 

Dugtrio was already banned from NU

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some calcs I feel that might be relevant:

 

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusknoir: 51-60 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- 13.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

__

 

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 36-43 (20.9 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 186-220 (108.1 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

__

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Whimsicott: 67-81 (40.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Whimsicott: 172-204 (102.9 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

can only enter on a predict

__

+2 252+ Atk Bibarel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 108-127 (68.7 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bibarel: 198-234 (106.4 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

__

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 74-90 (40.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bibarel: 75-88 (40.3 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

no chance to win really if bibarel isn't chipped already.

 

_

 

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 94-112 (54.9 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Tangela Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bibarel: 126-150 (67.7 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

__

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 172-204 (85.5 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

 

__

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Aqua Jet vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 57-67 (34.3 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

__

Didn't calc ludicolo and some others, but I feel like it's not necessary at all.

 

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you just listed a bunch of mons nobody runs for good reasons. just to clear some things up tho:

 

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusknoir: 130-153 (85.5 - 100.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusknoir: 100-118 (65.7 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
252 Atk Dusknoir Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bibarel: 106-126 (68.8 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

no rocks and you can wow it.

 

 

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 172-204 (100 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

 

Bold whimsi is legit kinda, tho you always wanna be clicking encore, cause giga doesnt ohko, which means biba could just click return, thus its a complete momentum sink.

 

 

Why would anybody want to run hitmontop in our NU?

 

 

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 150-176 (82.4 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 195-229 (107.1 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
 
Tangelas legit as a Biba counter, but what else does it counter in our current NU? And what does it do after coming in on lets say a cc; leech, synthesis, knock off? Shitton of fire types, golbat, rose, lilli and gallade set up on it, eel just gets in and uturns out with close to 0 risk. Tangelas crap rn.
 
 
Havent seen any MisD, so ill do a more realistic one
thats working:
+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mismagius: 109-129 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
0- Atk Mismagius Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bibarel: 198-234 (128.5 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mismagius: 71-86 (42.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

So Bold Missy seems legit under the assumption one runs fp + wow and unlike other mons i see it actually doing stuff, while being a solid Biba answer at the same time.

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20 minutes ago, DrButler said:

...

Keep in mind, I never said, this was ideal counters, or even checks, those are the ones I actually considered to be able to enter, and as you can see, I proved that even those will struggle a lot to enter on him.

Misdreavus is probably the best answer imo, can have utility outside of just stopping bibarel, can WoW to kill momentum, or like you said, run foul play, which is uncommon and I don't think it would really accomplish much other than hitting bibarel hard. I like whim as a check for him, considering you can even pack memento or encore, to kill his momentum, then again, not ideal at all to consider memento an answer, in my eyes.

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You can kill Bibarel with a lot of pokes Butler. Kanghaskan, Pikachu/Raichu Fake Out + Extreme Speed, Focus Sash/Sturdy Pokes, Tangela/Tangrown, Druddigon Wall with Sucker Punch, Choise Scarf Poliwhart/Exeggutor, Mach Punch Hitmonchan, Simisage, and some more.

Edited by soyhector
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18 hours ago, soyhector said:

You can kill Bibarel with a lot of pokes Butler. Kanghaskan, Pikachu/Raichu Fake Out + Extreme Speed, Focus Sash/Sturdy Pokes, Tangela/Tangrown, Druddigon Wall with Sucker Punch, Choise Scarf Poliwhart/Exeggutor, Mach Punch Hitmonchan, Simisage, and some more.

Rocks remove sturdy, kang is legit as a revenge killer, tangela although it can check will still struggle a lot, if he packs return instead of waterfall, not even sure about drudi usage tbh, scarf exeg/wrsth still cry every quickattack+4 on switch, not sure if hitmonchan outspeeds him and not at home to check, simisage utility is pretty meh, focus sash means you need to control hazards really well the entire match.

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kanga and chan i mentioned above, guess you could count ambi, pikachu, hari in there as well, so basically fo + chan. tho chans only a check as long as biba isnt jolly since chan should always be adamant.

 

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Druddigon: 166-196 (90.2 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Mold Breaker Druddigon Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bibarel: 46-55 (29.8 - 35.7%) -- 30.8% chance to 3HKO

 

-> this only revenges sash variants, not the orb one and id argue that running sucker on impish drudd is suboptimal.

 

 

 

idk why you would wanna run choice scarf exe tbh. it doesnt revenge kill anything that sets up, which is pretty subpar for a scarfer and poliwrath seems terrible coverage wise, (as in) fighting or water doesnt seem like a scary thing to switch into. the good scarfers are frailer than the "only good vs biba" ones, but the allow you to kill lilli and omastar, which both of these fall to.

 

simisage only works if you know theyre running jet over quick attack or if its carrying a sash, but like razi said, you gotta control hazards to count that as a check and sometimes you just cant make sure you have control over them, so thats rather unreliable.

 

ive seen qa over jet, ive seen jet over qa and i have seen both on the same set, ive seen prio, + stab + crunch - scouting around that shit is impossible.

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The thing is.. Who would Bib setup on?
Like any pokemon with an attack dents it
Even if they are memento-ed 

Even a knock off decreases his its damage output greatly

Not to mention a pokemon that takes 1 hit and roars it out -or at worst status it- renders it kind of useless
Rocky helmet defenders also make him it hate his its life given he it would run orb xD

And Evolite Scyther (If not hit by rocks) would harm it pretty badly
(specially if you run 252 def which is smart, since it makes surviving easier given that you lose 50% on switch in, which makes investing in HP the worse option)
(tho I run it 252 sp def tbh, given what is super effective against it is usually a thunderbolt or Ice beam)

And all of that is assuming the worst case scenario, which is basically us not touching Bib AT ALL while it sets up xD

Edited by MHkaserz
it * it * it * before pachiman makes me punch myself xD
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2 hours ago, MHkaserz said:

The thing is.. Who would Bib setup on?

literally anyone that doens't 1hit. Memento allows him to setup on almost anything.

Scyther is not in a great spot, and has no priority moves. Going sp.def or def on a scyther is everything but smart mate, you're sacrificing his great base speed, for some extra defense when that wont matters if you lose your defog, you'll struggle. Plus steelix exists which kinda makes scyther tough to use.

 

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Scyther: 133-156 (75.1 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Bibarel Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Scyther: 133-156 (75.1 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

it's not even a check in most cases to be fair.

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