suigin Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, DoubleJ said: It should also be noted that all of our prior "borderline" Pokemon have less than 4.36% usage and could move-down, although previously they were all banned for being "too good" for UU. Considering Defiant isn't implemented we were considering dropping Bisharp since the main reason it got BL'd was because it'd turn defogging into a russian roulette without team preview (Not an official decision though). Without Heat Rock Torkoal may not be as obnoxious as we expected him to be, in my opinion now would be the perfect time to test out Torkoal in a lower tier environment but there is some people opposed to the idea (Rightfully so since sun abusers are pretty good at lower tiers). I'm personally still against Azu dropping, specially with Milo rising, same with Darmanitan. DoubleJ and gbwead 2 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Just now, suigin said: Considering Defiant isn't implemented we were considering dropping Bisharp since the main reason it got BL'd was because it'd turn defogging into a russian roulette without team preview (Not an official decision though). Without Heat Rock Torkoal may not be as obnoxious as we expected him to be, in my opinion now would be the perfect time to test out Torkoal in a lower tier environment but there is some people opposed to the idea (Rightfully so since sun abusers are pretty good at lower tiers). I'm personally still against Azu dropping, specially with Milo rising, same with Darmanitan. Yea I'd agree, Darmanitan and Azumarill are still insane offensive weapons that should have their ban upheld. Link to comment
RysPicz Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, DoubleJ said: Now that we've got usage statistics that seem to truly represent our tiers, I'd like to push for an update on the tier lists in-game. Based on our 4.36% usage cut-off the following changes should be made: Moving Down from OU to UU: Chansey, Cloyster, Meinshao Moving Up from UU to OU: Alakazam, Arcanine, Flygon, Heracross, Jolteon, Mantine, Milotic, Snorlax, Tentacruel, It should also be noted that all of our prior "borderline" Pokemon have less than 4.36% usage and could move-down, although previously they were all banned for being "too good" for UU. Meinshao's usage may have also been "skewed" because of the Regenerator ban and thus should probably be kept in OU. I may have missed something, but just at first glance these are the changes that I can see. Totally agreed, maybe aside Cloyster (I thonk it might be too much for UU to handle and due to it's physical bulk it surely will have an opportunity to set up) but as always I am willing to give it a shot. We were playing unbalanced, shitty meta in both OU and UU for 3 months and I thonk it's high time to finally do some changes. Unless you want to wait like 2 years until HAs will be released. Imo tier changes should've been done much earlier. I do not want to take any shots on TC as I see it understandable to wait for an update which potentially might cause a lot of ruckus around but 3 months is enough. Nothing much will change over time until another update hits and if you wish to take your time over and over from one update to another to do anything, then you will end up doing the same that has been done last 3 months. We do not even see any TC members discussing with us! Come on guys, I know you have real lifes and you don't get paid but tiers are just screaming for help. Edited February 28, 2018 by RysPicz I thonk, not think aftershocker, gbwead, Maelstrom and 2 others 5 Link to comment
Munya Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 No need to get upset with the TC, they were told we wouldn't be tiering until more things were added, if you want to place blame, i will take it. This usage was done with tiering in mind so expect things to be happening soonish, don't expect usage movements to happen the same way though, more info on that will be posted eventually. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Munya said: No need to get upset with the TC, they were told we wouldn't be tiering until more things were added, if you want to place blame, i will take it. This usage was done with tiering in mind so expect things to be happening soonish, don't expect usage movements to happen the same way though, more info on that will be posted eventually. That's kind of a response which explains a lot. Thanks Munyu. Link to comment
Zymogen Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 When will more things be added tho lmao Link to comment
Munya Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 Whenever, we aren't waiting for that anymore though. Tiering begins with this usage. DoubleJ and RysPicz 2 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Just now, Zymogen said: When will more things be added tho lmao Soon (tm) Link to comment
Zymogen Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) nvm Edited February 28, 2018 by Zymogen Link to comment
Maelstrom Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, suigin said: Considering Defiant isn't implemented we were considering dropping Bisharp since the main reason it got BL'd was because it'd turn defogging into a russian roulette without team preview (Not an official decision though). Without Heat Rock Torkoal may not be as obnoxious as we expected him to be, in my opinion now would be the perfect time to test out Torkoal in a lower tier environment but there is some people opposed to the idea (Rightfully so since sun abusers are pretty good at lower tiers). I'm personally still against Azu dropping, specially with Milo rising, same with Darmanitan. I know matchmaking is not exactly a reference for something, but I were building a sun team lately and I think it is very decent even on OU. Link to comment
suigin Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, Maelstrom said: I know matchmaking is not exactly a reference for something, but I were building a sun team lately and I think it is very decent even on OU. Thing is OU has good abusers of other weathers that can cancel it out, while UU has Sand Stream Gigalith with pretty much no abusers and """"""""""""""Hail""""""""""""""" to cancel it out. Link to comment
Maelstrom Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, suigin said: Thing is OU has good abusers of other weathers that can cancel it out, while UU has Sand Stream Gigalith with pretty much no abusers and """"""""""""""Hail""""""""""""""" to cancel it out. I had the same concern before starting to build, but this was easier to play around than it seems, also, of course you won't be playing 6/6 weather abusers on a team. Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 How to Abuse weather in UU: Trick Room Bronzong CB Gigalith Shell Smash Carracosta w/ SpDef boost (Rock-Type ftw) Sand Veil Swords Dance Gligar Pray. Link to comment
suigin Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 For the record UU/NU just lost most of their good defensive water types besides Slowbro and Vaporeon and nothing in the tiers can take Specs Eruption from Typhlo under the sun besides Vaporeon who absolutely has to wish on that turn giving way for a Victrebel to come in unpunished, Gigalith who'd only exist to deal with sun and who can be worn out and taken out with Focus Blast if it lands, Houndoom who'd also get nailed by a good Focus Blast on the switch too, and I guess there's Altaria too who is probably the safest switch in but if it becomes common enough, I'm sure Typhlos would override their Hidden Power to Ice. Granted keeping a full health Typhlo under the sun to maximize damage is pretty hard but it'd definitely centralize the entire tier around its obscene damage. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, suigin said: For the record UU/NU just lost most of their good defensive water types besides Slowbro and Vaporeon and nothing in the tiers can take Specs Eruption from Typhlo under the sun besides Vaporeon who absolutely has to wish on that turn giving way for a Victrebel to come in unpunished, Gigalith who'd only exist to deal with sun and who can be worn out and taken out with Focus Blast if it lands, Houndoom who'd also get nailed by a good Focus Blast on the switch too, and I guess there's Altaria too who is probably the safest switch in but if it becomes common enough, I'm sure Typhlos would override their Hidden Power to Ice. Granted keeping a full health Typhlo under the sun to maximize damage is pretty hard but it'd definitely centralize the entire tier around its obscene damage. You forgot about the GOAT 252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 80-94 (39.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Quag has a decent defensive presence in the tier and can be used to provide coverage against several threats, rather than just being used to cover Typhlosion alone. Unfortunately, like Houndoom it can get OHKO'd by a single coverage move 252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 172-204 (85.1 - 100.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Typhlosion is on the fence for me, but it certainly has a "scary" factor when you consider it in the lower tiers. Link to comment
Laz Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 @DoubleJ I can't find usage statistics, only the old ones from September 2017. Am I missing something? Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Lazaaro said: @DoubleJ I can't find usage statistics, only the old ones from September 2017. Am I missing something? The date hasn't changed, but those are brand new. Link to comment
Zymogen Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 32 minutes ago, DoubleJ said: You forgot about the GOAT 252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 80-94 (39.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Quag has a decent defensive presence in the tier and can be used to provide coverage against several threats, rather than just being used to cover Typhlosion alone. Unfortunately, like Houndoom it can get OHKO'd by a single coverage move 252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 172-204 (85.1 - 100.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Typhlosion is on the fence for me, but it certainly has a "scary" factor when you consider it in the lower tiers. And under sun? (Assuming Tork is dropped too) Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Zymogen said: And under sun? (Assuming Tork is dropped too) I mean you can run the calc, but pretty much nothing is going to avoid being 2hko'd by a sun-boosted 100% HP Eruption from Specs Typhlosion. Our optimal strat here is to get Stealth Rocks up and avoid seeing Eruption in the first place, that or realize that a Specs Typhlosion is probably going to spam Eruption in the sun over a shitty accuracy move like Focus Blast and you can probably safely get in a Houndoom. Seems like an awful amount of work though. Link to comment
gbwead Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I'm just going to drop these calcs here: Typhlosion Fire Blast Flamethrower vs. Flash Fire Rapidash: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time 0- Atk Typhlosion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Rapidash: 56-66 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 3.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery @DaftCoolio, as you can see Impish Rapidash is no joke. DaftCoolio, Suneet and pachima 3 Link to comment
Toast Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 typlho gets solarbeam tho so no point in using hp grass tbh, so it should be running ice Link to comment
tMuse Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I hope i'm in the right thread for my question: Should the Speed Boost ability be banned since it's bugged? I just chatted with a CM who told me that a Bug Moderator confirmed the bug. Speed Boost should not trigger when the pokemon is switched in normally (no uturn, baton pass, volt switch or after a fainted pokemon) yet it does trigger. This allows for Yanmega with modest nature (224 speed after speed boost) to outspeed the whole tier and run a safe choice spec set. Foersterr and OrangeManiac 2 Link to comment
Maelstrom Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 On 28/02/2018 at 10:16 PM, gbwead said: I'm just going to drop these calcs here: Typhlosion Fire Blast Flamethrower vs. Flash Fire Rapidash: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time 0- Atk Typhlosion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Rapidash: 56-66 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 3.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery @DaftCoolio, as you can see Impish Rapidash is no joke. There's Ninetales and Flareon too. Link to comment
Senile Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 4 hours ago, tMuse said: I hope i'm in the right thread for my question: Should the Speed Boost ability be banned since it's bugged? I just chatted with a CM who told me that a Bug Moderator confirmed the bug. Speed Boost should not trigger when the pokemon is switched in normally (no uturn, baton pass, volt switch or after a fainted pokemon) yet it does trigger. This allows for Yanmega with modest nature (224 speed after speed boost) to outspeed the whole tier and run a safe choice spec set. It might make Yanmega better than normal, but even with this, Yanmega isn't doing enough in UU to be super problematic anyway, so a ban's not warranted. It's also worth mentioning that AFAIK this bug has been around since Speed Boost was implemented, so it's probably just something we're gonna have to live with until they get around to it. Link to comment
tMuse Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 57 minutes ago, Senile said: It might make Yanmega better than normal, but even with this, Yanmega isn't doing enough in UU to be super problematic anyway, so a ban's not warranted. Even if it's not op, it gives yanmega an unfair advantage over mons that would normally counter it. Without speed boost, normally it would have 147 speed (modest) and get a speedboost after one round Imagine this: You expect the yanmega switch and you switch in your counter; Yanmega gets switched in gets a speedboost and oneshots your pokemon. I know this is all hypothetically but it is still possible and probably upsetting since a counter doesn't need to be tankier if it can oneshot it and being faster. 1 hour ago, Senile said: It's also worth mentioning that AFAIK this bug has been around since Speed Boost was implemented[...] Yes this bug is arround since Speed Boost was implemented so i was a bit suprised that it wasn't discussed before. Link to comment
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