OU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[caioxlive13]

2 hours ago, Laughs said:

 

 

Again, I used smogon as an example of another meta deciding a mon was unhealthy despite it having multiple checks and counters. Someone pointed out that volcarona + dugtrio was fine and couldn't be unhealthy because it had checks and counters. I'm saying that it having counters can still make it unhealthy when it limits team building. Volcarona was banned in early SV despite not being top 10 usage and having counters because of this.

You're unconsidering something important: Context. Smogon yea, you get forced to run something to counter X/Y mon is not common so when it happens, obviously people will ban those mons. Also, votes there are done by the Community, not only TC. If there was such community vote there, Dugtrio would be banned long ago since most part of community hates it, and if you go through unofficial events, a good part already banned trapping abilitys. 
 

Also, in MMO your team haviing absolutely nothing to counter some mon or at best 1 answer is pretty common. We can't fit 3 answers to dugtrio because we had over 20+ mons to cover first. If we does, you can be 100% sure was not intentional. Same applies to volca and pretty much a great chunk of mons. 

And isn't you had to go with all mons Gb listed, neither they will just counter dugtrio + volca. Go with one, maybe two of their list. Some does clearly more. Chansey is a good example: Not only Chansey deals with almost every volca variant, only a few gimmick ones doesn't, it basically shuts down every special attacker not named Serperior(Serperior can spam Leaf Storm and will eventually broke through. If AV, can run giga drain so doesn't exit that fight low on HP.). 
 

Edited March 5 by caioxlive13

[Robbo20]

are latios and/or latios permanently obtainable?

 

[CaptnBaklava]

3 hours ago, Robbo20 said:

are latios and/or latios permanently obtainable?

 

No. 

[SuperBXdanielo]

Empoleon OU? 👀

 

[FlacuSkye]

3 minutes ago, SuperBXdanielo said:

Empoleon OU? 👀

uu is cooked

[caioxlive13]

26 minutes ago, SuperBXdanielo said:

Empoleon OU? 👀

 

UU is genuinely f*** if happens. But what Empo is providing on OU that other mons didn't to it suddently rise their usage?

[Bertolfoso]

2 hours ago, FlacuSkye said:

uu is cooked

always has been

[SuperBXdanielo]

3 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

UU is genuinely f*** if happens. But what Empo is providing on OU that other mons didn't to it suddently rise their usage?

Zapdos and Gallade are both common allies and they are rising in usage, he probably helps them somehow

[caioxlive13]

3 hours ago, SuperBXdanielo said:

Zapdos and Gallade are both common allies and they are rising in usage, he probably helps them somehow

makes sense.

[KeldeoCrowned]

On 12/4/2017 at 2:20 PM, Kebaber said:

Not sure how Dugtrio on gen7 steroids is allowed in a meta lacking team preview. Anyone care to explain why?

heya, you're still alive, and people didn't ban dugtrio yet lol

[CaptnBaklava]

5 hours ago, KeldeoCrowned said:

heya, you're still alive, and people didn't ban dugtrio yet lol

He did not log for like 7 years bro

[caioxlive13]

And i'm still waiting for the requested Tiebreak revision.

Just to put things clear to explain why in some cases an 2v4 is not losing to some side, which the system clearly believes the opposite, Yesterday i was playing and i got into a 2v4 scenario, however my mon alive was simply unbeatable by the opposing team(I was with Suicune and a complety neutralized Gastrodon, and My opponent with an Kabutops, Kingdra, Gastrodon and Pelliper.). Nothing there could break Suicune unless RNGesus helped it. For my luck i was in 20 minutes of match, because if i was in 55min, my opponent could stall out the 5 minutes left to win.
And you may think: Wait, how matches on 60 mins would have someone winning in a 5v6? I explain, you can have something your opponent won't break, except using a specific mon. If you neutralize it(Making it incapable of countering your mon) without faint, then you're winning. And for that you may sack something. You can sack a Gastrodon in order to burn a Mienshao/Scizor out and halve it's damage, thus allowing some mon fully countered by him to have a chance to break through.
Just an example of how the tiebreak does not make sense and could, in the correct circunstances, be abused in some way. On the second example i gave, the opponent would lose if the match wouldn't be played with timer rules, let's say, on PSL, where i can freely turn on/off time limits, there is literally no rule blocking me. Just a matter of time until you find a opening. With timer, he needs just to hold it for 60mins and win. And i'm pretty sure the tiebreak is not there to people exploit it to farm wins.

Edited April 6 by caioxlive13

[LunarEdge]

On 1/31/2024 at 2:02 AM, caioxlive13 said:

Even dragmag not being really strong there, some mons with actual Dragon-type nukes in their Hands are very dangerous. We've seen what just happened wiith Draco Meteor Hydreigon. I'd have to agree on Rys's post @SuperBXdanielo, sorry. Also about wallbreakers, did you tried Gallade? It work greatly, defensively it can barely be checked, and to beat it you have to outoffense it. if you use a well-builded offense revolved around him you can beat one of the most toxic teams there, aka Frags team(Toxic due to being a fat balance, with longevity enough to 90% of the time carry the game for 130~150 turns. This amount of turns is usually 1h long(Move animation slows each turn to 25~30 seconds)  and we know what happens when fat teams reach time limit).

Wallbreak? Gallade. So basically you have to use THIS pokemon to deal with the meta, How Fun! sucks to use anything else, git gud and spam Gallade.

The meta is revolving too much on fighting types because physical dragons have a shit stab move that locks them on it and is barely 10 more BP than dragon claw making it a waste of a move, even conkeldur is not a reliable wallbreaker when neutralizing Weezing enters the field and just forces it out, Gallade looses his sharpness dealing this 252+ Atk Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Neutralizing Gas Weezing: 84-98 (48.8 - 56.9%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO, that's if the Gallade predicts which one of the 3+ walls is going to enter the field, then it gets burned if it stays on weezing, and as the majority of players use scarf gallade it gets nullified once it gets burned, so there goes the wallbreaker that either dies from hazards by constantly having to switch in and out or gets literally owned by sableye or a faster revenge killer.

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 168-198 (47 - 55.4%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO

Why is the most powerful physical dragon move of a 134 base attack banded adamant dragonite struggling to 2HKO chansey (the best special wall). No wonder why the meta is so reliant on fighting types making heavy lifting, forcing devs to bring sharpness gallade to deal with it, while outrage has been forgotten unjustly when it at least should be reviewed for an adjust in power, 100 base power for a move that locks you on it and confuses you 2-3 turns in doesn't seem too overbearing when any steel-type can wall it, and as dragmag on MMO is not that good due to the absence of jirachi, latios, latias, and the most broken outrage abuser of the gen 5 ou meta, Kyurem-Black there's no reason why it should stay on it's current state, we are still retaining the outrage that was nerfed on a meta when snorlax was ubers and flygon was OU and ever since that meta we've got various reliable counters and check to outrage, rocky helmet ferro, skarmory, neutralizing gas weezing and regenerator amoongus, even prankster sableye.

If the problem is making Dragmag teams too broken(I literally don't know how is that possible with the current pokemon available) then adjust the numbers again, but to not even try to shake the current meta is lazy, councils take too long to make a move, Gen 5 OU is even discussing if spikes and stealth rocks should be banned due to its limiting nature and here we are with things long ago banned from similar metas with more answers to these threats than we do.

Thank you for taking your time to read this, please share your point of view about this matter as I'm trying to get the opinion of the community.

I've said this before in previous posts but if there are spelling mistakes or weird sentences just know that English is not my main language.

Edited April 14 by LunarEdge