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OU Tier Discussion Request Thread


Munya

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5 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

So... did you guys found any effective answer for conkel? We don't have wobb anymore btw.

Most viable is Reuniclus. Others have started to run bulky salamences with dragon pulse + toxic + roost. I'm not sure how effective those are though. Best person to ask is @BurntZebra :)

Edited by NikhilR
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26 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Impish/Relaxed Medicham counters Conkeldurr very well and doesn't fear Pursuit trapping.

If you REALLY are running something like that, just to counter Conk, then something is obviously wrong.

 

I just run crazy offense which does not let Conk even get a switch in. It worked for me during the Drilbur official really well (until I got haxed), though even with that kind of team it can get a switch and annoy with it's machpunches.

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My team is generaly offensive, but the problem is, I have a Blissey (quiet with sp.atk investment and 3 offensive moves) and that's where the Conkel comes in.

 

Obviously, I should get rid of my Blissey, or find something that can switch on Conkel and scare it away, but I like my Blissey so much...

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4 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

My team is generaly offensive, but the problem is, I have a Blissey (quiet with sp.atk investment and 3 offensive moves) and that's where the Conkel comes in.

 

Obviously, I should get rid of my Blissey, or find something that can switch on Conkel and scare it away, but I like my Blissey so much...

Why is it quiet? 

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4 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

My team is generaly offensive, but the problem is, I have a Blissey (quiet with sp.atk investment and 3 offensive moves) and that's where the Conkel comes in.

 

Obviously, I should get rid of my Blissey, or find something that can switch on Conkel and scare it away, but I like my Blissey so much...

252+ SpA Life Orb Blissey Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 146-172 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

easy solution

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2 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Why is it quiet? 

Quiet with 0 speed to take less damage from ferro's gyro ball.

Not like it's really necessary, I just felt like doing while I were on the breeding process, since I don't expect to outspeed anything with it anyway.

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10 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Quiet with 0 speed to take less damage from ferro's gyro ball.

Not like it's really necessary, I just felt like doing while I were on the breeding process, since I don't expect to outspeed anything with it anyway.

Blissey actually has a decent speed tier, to where I would highly recommend 31 speed and a non speed nature. The difference in gyro ball damage is extremely minimal in the long run, compared to the speed ties you're losing. Not to mention, +spatt is bad in general anyways 

 

Just food for thought as you complain on OU discussion request thread that your incorrectly built blissey is allowing conk too many chances to wreck your team...

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26 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Blissey actually has a decent speed tier, to where I would highly recommend 31 speed and a non speed nature. The difference in gyro ball damage is extremely minimal in the long run, compared to the speed ties you're losing. Not to mention, +spatt is bad in general anyways 

 

Just food for thought as you complain on OU discussion request thread that your incorrectly built blissey is allowing conk too many chances to wreck your team...

This time you really helped me, since I haven't noticed Blissey's base speed is higher than Conkel's.

 

I guess nobody runs speed on Conkel, right? Gonna fix it later.

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6 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

This time you really helped me, since I haven't noticed Blissey's base speed is higher than Conkel's.

 

I guess nobody runs speed on Conkel, right? Gonna fix it later.

not max speed at least

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16 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

This time you really helped me, since I haven't noticed Blissey's base speed is higher than Conkel's.

 

I guess nobody runs speed on Conkel, right? Gonna fix it later.

A lot of people actually does run speed on Conk. Either to speed-creep other Conks (lo.) or to outspeed Hippo- hitting it before it goes into Slack Off can make a big difference. Regardless, it still shouldn't outspeed Blissey.

 

@BurntZebra the idea of running Psychic on Blissey is actually decent

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  • 2 months later...
26 minutes ago, Bongoret said:

Guyz, what's with Sandstorm Excadrill? this thing is so simple and so broken, I do not understand why nobody has mentioned it already.

 

Xx

It's shut down pretty reliably by a Hippowdon (at full HP but getting a Hippo to full HP isn't all that hard). Even if Excadrill predicts correctly and Swords Dances, Hippowdon will still live. Then to lesser extent there's Skarmory, Weezing, Gliscor which all limit Excadrill a lot from just sweeping entire teams. Also rain is so prevalent in OU that getting Excadrill to be the fastest Pokemon in the battlefield can be really tricky. Not only that but since we don't have permaweather (thank god!), which means that Excadrill often needs either a risky switch in or a sack in order to try to enjoy the speed boost from Sandstorm. I'd say it's one of those Pokemon that will get even more nerfed when Team Preview becomes a thing.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/12/2018 at 3:50 PM, Gunthug said:

Just food for thought as you complain on OU discussion request thread that your incorrectly built blissey is allowing conk too many chances to wreck your team...

No matter how he built blissey it still allows conk to wreck his team (specs psychic lo.)

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On 6/4/2018 at 8:40 AM, OrangeManiac said:

It's shut down pretty reliably by a Hippowdon (at full HP but getting a Hippo to full HP isn't all that hard). Even if Excadrill predicts correctly and Swords Dances, Hippowdon will still live. Then to lesser extent there's Skarmory, Weezing, Gliscor which all limit Excadrill a lot from just sweeping entire teams. Also rain is so prevalent in OU that getting Excadrill to be the fastest Pokemon in the battlefield can be really tricky. Not only that but since we don't have permaweather (thank god!), which means that Excadrill often needs either a risky switch in or a sack in order to try to enjoy the speed boost from Sandstorm. I'd say it's one of those Pokemon that will get even more nerfed when Team Preview becomes a thing.

To add to this Conkeldurr can revenge kill with mach punch after a bit of life orb recoil and I've seen a lot of Bronzong lately which deals with it as well.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Why running phychic on blisey when u get physic on volcarono and chandlure? 

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 224-264 (105.6 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
+2 252 SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Conkeldurr: 198-234 (93.3 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
 
252+ SpA Chandelure Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Conkeldurr: 114-136 (53.7 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
 
252+ SpA Chandelure Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 172-204 (81.1 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
having chandlure in substitute helps to take down conkledurr with 2  phychic
 
Volcarono just needs 1 quiver dance to OHKO conkledurr with psychic. 
Also gengar gets opportunity to take down conkledurr 
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 190-224 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
 
I don't see why people don't use alakazam and espeon in OU , don't tell me coz of HA. 
 
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 224-266 (105.6 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
248 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 218-258 (102.8 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
These clearly says conkledurr is not ban worthy. 
 
Edited by RedDragonERa
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20 hours ago, RedDragonERa said:

Why running phychic on blisey when u get physic on volcarono and chandlure? 

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 224-264 (105.6 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
+2 252 SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Conkeldurr: 198-234 (93.3 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
 
252+ SpA Chandelure Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Conkeldurr: 114-136 (53.7 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
 
252+ SpA Chandelure Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 172-204 (81.1 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
having chandlure in substitute helps to take down conkledurr with 2  phychic
 
Volcarono just needs 1 quiver dance to OHKO conkledurr with psychic. 
Also gengar gets opportunity to take down conkledurr 
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 190-224 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
 
I don't see why people don't use alakazam and espeon in OU , don't tell me coz of HA. 
 
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 224-266 (105.6 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
248 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 218-258 (102.8 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
These clearly says conkledurr is not ban worthy. 
 

While obviously strong psychic types, as well as strong pokemon with psychic type moves, can CHECK conkeldurr (ie: if its 1v1, conk probably dies or has to switch out) the issue with conk is finding something that can switch in vs. it. So lets say conk comes in on blissey, and now you've gotta switch out or your only answer to special attackers is done for. Which of the above pokemon are coming in?

 

Volc takes 50% to rocks, so good luck stomaching a conk hit, even a fighting type move

Chandelure can try to predict a drain punch but if it comes in on payback, it dies (also rocks damage is never good, and it has 0 recovery)

Gengar, same issue

Alakazam is so paper thin that it cant even come in on a conk fighting move, i think drain punch + mach might honestly kill after rocks but I'm not calcing it because its absurd

espeon isn't much better, and ofc can't come in on a payback

 

So while your calcs are good to show that conk has answers once it kills something (and you can bring in a revenge killer) it doesn't prevent conk from doing its job - breaking walls for OTHER pokemon to sweep. 

 

I'm not saying conk is banworthy, just that we KNOW it has checks. What it lacks are counters

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The thing about running psychic on Blissey was to not give Conkeldurr a safe switch on it.

 

"but you are doing an offensive blissy just for it?"

 

I were already using a offensive Blissey to begin with, not like it is something to be seriously discussed.

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12 hours ago, Gunthug said:

While obviously strong psychic types, as well as strong pokemon with psychic type moves, can CHECK conkeldurr (ie: if its 1v1, conk probably dies or has to switch out) the issue with conk is finding something that can switch in vs. it. So lets say conk comes in on blissey, and now you've gotta switch out or your only answer to special attackers is done for. Which of the above pokemon are coming in?

 

Volc takes 50% to rocks, so good luck stomaching a conk hit, even a fighting type move

Chandelure can try to predict a drain punch but if it comes in on payback, it dies (also rocks damage is never good, and it has 0 recovery)

Gengar, same issue

Alakazam is so paper thin that it cant even come in on a conk fighting move, i think drain punch + mach might honestly kill after rocks but I'm not calcing it because its absurd

espeon isn't much better, and ofc can't come in on a payback

 

So while your calcs are good to show that conk has answers once it kills something (and you can bring in a revenge killer) it doesn't prevent conk from doing its job - breaking walls for OTHER pokemon to sweep. 

 

I'm not saying conk is banworthy, just that we KNOW it has checks. What it lacks are counters

reuniclus, bold garde, bulky psychic metagross are all counters.

The reason I stated bold garde is that it can have speed to outspeed scizor and hp fire it.

Also, payback doesn´t double its power on switch in.

And this is assuming you dont know conk´s set. Once you know (tpunch/ice punch bla blah blah) more stuff can come in easily.

So basically, while conk can be somewhat of an annoyance and a game changer in some circunstances, I dont see it running rampage without a boosted knock off.

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4 minutes ago, pachima said:

reuniclus, bold garde, bulky psychic metagross are all counters.

The reason I stated bold garde is that it can have speed to outspeed scizor and hp fire it.

Also, payback doesn´t double its power on switch in.

And this is assuming you dont know conk´s set. Once you know (tpunch/ice punch bla blah blah) more stuff can come in easily.

So basically, while conk can be somewhat of an annoyance and a game changer in some circunstances, I dont see it running rampage without a boosted knock off.

Nearly all non flying bug types with access to a recovery move can wall it if Conkeldurr doesn't run a Rock move. Conkeldurr is manageable right now, but that might no longer be the case once it gets sheer force, flame orb or iron fist.

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