OU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[gbwead]

5 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

I guess this is the pokemon I were looking for to finish my team!

 

btw, what gen mechanic does our overcoat follow?

Overcoat isn't implemented yet sadly, so I really don't know, but I am assuming it will follow gen 7 mechanics.

[Mitch730]

I am not understanding if dugtrio and wobb are going to get a ban or not, Actually it's quite stressfull, me like many other people don't know if get a dug/woubb yes or not, don't consider pokeMMO as a bunch of rich people that play from years that can make whatever they want and when they want, i can assure there's a lot of people who must really consider a lot of things before breeding or buying something, actually in my guild there are some people who ask me "can i make a dugtrio? will it be banned?" all i can answer is i have no idea

 

personally i would instaban them because they are the first to  ban comeptition and the fun in a match, i mean come on, you do so much to take some advantage, predicting and stuff, and then he just revenge kill you by trapping

 

i tried to deceive a wobb with bulk up conkel but he resist a +6 punch, and pratically every scarfer is bound to death, salamence claw barely do a 30%..not even a tyranitar's crunch do 1HKO on it and i made this calc without EV def invest

 

anyway you are the expert people and the council, if they don't need a ban i just would like to know it, so even poor people can decide to breed those pokemons and we all can start to trap and see what very fun matches we can have

[Maelstrom]

That's why I run 3 shed shells on my team.

 

I will never breed a wobuffet because I have enough self respect to not do it.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Maelstrom

[FNTCZ]

5 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

That's why I run 3 shed shells on my team.

 

I will never breed a wobuffet because I have enough self respect to not do it.

 

 

But you do have the self respect to run shed shell blissey. aight.

[Maelstrom]

16 minutes ago, FNTCZ said:

But you do have the self respect to run shed shell blissey. aight.

Of course! lol

 

Enough to not run a full stall or serene grace ice beam one.

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Maelstrom

[Mitch730]

Even tho it's quite obvius i want to state that playing shed shell on every single poke you play that get rekt by dug/wobb it's not a normal thing XD

 

anyway i might have posted a bit nervous but im quite convinced of what i am saying and want to add something, getting trapped it's for sure dangerous (and depressing) but when i talk to people someone say that you can fuck a wobb winning the mind game, which is "usually" not true, what's very strong of wobb is not only the ability to trap pkmns and put them in a bad situation, but the team you can build around a wobb, i mean you don't play wobb just because it's strong with trapping and killing pkmns that attack with counter and mirror, if i encore and my enemy doesn't attack, it literally means that i can put (for example) cloyster safely without taking any damage and shell smash. And im quite sure you know how strong  cloyster after shell smash is. Obv every pokemon can just go in and setup. (and let me repeat that choice users are mostly fucked)

[Maelstrom]

45 minutes ago, Mitch730 said:

Even tho it's quite obvius i want to state that playing shed shell on every single poke you play that get rekt by dug/wobb it's not a normal thing XD

2 of the 3 sheds I run are for magnezone tbh

[gbwead]

8 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

2 of the 3 sheds I run are for magnezone tbh

Skarm and ?

[Maelstrom]

Just now, gbwead said:

Skarm and ?

Escavalier :v

[RysPicz]

Dugtrio is just broken, absolutely broken, especially without team preview. This thing needs no arguments, it's beyond ridiculous.

Imo this really does deserve a ban, at least until we get that desired team preview.

[DaftCoolio]

4 hours ago, gbwead said:

Skarm and ?

His own magnezone duh

[Maelstrom]

Wobuffet and Dugtrio was always ubers for being uncompetitive and they are still as uncompetitive as always, especially without team preview

and even with team preview they would still be uncompetitive in the sense that it still requires 0 play skill to pull a trap with them.

 

I just see no reason to keep these two on the tier.

[Evlgoon]

going to just go ahead and say that i dont think dugtrio or wobb are ban worthy. 

2 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Wobuffet and Dugtrio was always ubers for being uncompetitive and they are still as uncompetitive as always, especially without team preview

and even with team preview they would still be uncompetitive in the sense that it still requires 0 play skill to pull a trap with them.

 

I just see no reason to keep these two on the tier.

You're saying that it requires 0 skill for them to trap something which simply isn't true. While both of these pokemon can switch in on a revenge kill and trap things neither of them can blindly switch into anything that they are meant to trap, you have to predict the right move to come in on in basically every scenario.  I would actually be interested to see if you could come up with a situation where either of those pokemon can switch in and get a kill without the possibility of being punished for it. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Evlgoon

[RysPicz]

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 7:54 PM, Evlgoon said:

going to just go ahead and say that i dont think dugtrio or wobb are ban worthy. 

You're saying that it requires 0 skill for them to trap something which simply isn't true. While both of these pokemon can switch in on a revenge kill and trap things neither of them can blindly switch into anything that they are meant to trap, you have to predict the right move to come in on in basically every scenario.  I would actually be interested to see if you could come up with a situation where either of those pokemon can switch in and get a kill without the possibility of being punished for it. 

The fact that EQ isn't really the best move you can get locked into is widely known, however, if something is coming on a CB locked EQ Dugtrio, it means usually only one thing- Dugtrio has done it's job already.

I could argue with how much Dugtrio is broken if we had a team preview, seems like we desperately need it. Otherwise Dug is just plain stupid.

Wobbu is ironically less threatening unless played under very specific circumstances. I would say Wobbu can make a decent counter-teaming mon when you already know what your opponent can run, while Dug can fit on every team archetype.

Since I don't see team preview happening in close future, my request would be to raise a discussion thread for Dugtrio or if it's possible, instant-ban it, unless until team preview.

 

EDIT: Am I mentioning team preview too often? :(

Edited January 18, 2018 by RysPicz

[Evlgoon]

7 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

The fact that EQ isn't really the best move you can get locked into is widely known, however, if something is coming on a CB locked EQ Dugtrio, it means usually only one thing- Dugtrio has done it's job already.

I could argue with how much Dugtrio is broken if we had a team preview, seems like we desperately need it. Otherwise Dug is just plain stupid.

Wobbu is ironically less threatening unless played under very specific circumstances. I would say Wobbu can make a decent counter-teaming mon when you already know what your opponent can run, while Dug can fit on every team archetype.

Since I don't see team preview happening in close future, my request would be to raise a discussion thread for Dugtrio or if it's possible, instant-ban it, unless until team preview.

 

EDIT: Am I mentioning team preview too often? :(

i discussed it with some other people earlier and maybe im just biased because i feel like ive dealt with them so easily. With that said i was more annoyed with what this other person said about it taking 0 skill to trap something when i know that they can only safely come in on revenge kills. With that said i do see how dugtrio's ability to revenge kill could be seen as non-competitive but i still dont think its ban worthy.

[Maelstrom]

Literally 0 skill was exageration, but that's still stupid and uncompetitive.

[Gunthug]

7 hours ago, Evlgoon said:

i discussed it with some other people earlier and maybe im just biased because i feel like ive dealt with them so easily. With that said i was more annoyed with what this other person said about it taking 0 skill to trap something when i know that they can only safely come in on revenge kills. With that said i do see how dugtrio's ability to revenge kill could be seen as non-competitive but i still dont think its ban worthy.

That same person runs 3 shed shells so I wouldn't take them too seriously 

[Maelstrom]

3 hours ago, Gunthug said:

That same person runs 3 shed shells so I wouldn't take them too seriously 

Of all reasons, you gonna use this to not take me seriously?

[Gunthug]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

Of all reasons, you gonna use this to not take me seriously?

Just the most recent one I could think of, but there are plenty. Your "demand a ban first, then figure out what you're talking about later" approach isn't helpful 

[RysPicz]

I'm starting to think that currently in our metagame, Conkeldurr is way too much to handle. With it's mighty 140 base attack, highest from all non-legendary fighting types, the walking mountain of muscles is also boasting a great movepool and an amazing ability in Guts, which makes you think twice before you will lay down some toxic spikes. Unless you're up for a wild ride. Let's list the potential counters of the standard Conk set (TPunch, Drain Punch, Bulkup, Mach):

 

- Latios and Latias

- Gliscor

- Reuniclus

- Zapdos

- Lando-T

- Celebi

- Slowbro (not really)

- Mew

- Bulky Salamence (?! who the hell runs this anyway)

- Cresselia

- Maybe Venusaur

- Fairy types

 

I might've missed some, since I wrote them down from top of my head. How many of these do we have in our meta?

1. Gliscor which is barely viable due to lack of it's amazing Poison Heal ability. It sure can switch in on Conk but I'm not sure how can it stop Conk in it's tracks without the boosted recovery and it's EQ will not do enough to Conk which will gradually keep recovering with Drain Punch:

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. +1 4 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 39-46 (21.5 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. +2 4 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 28-34 (15.4 - 18.7%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. +3 4 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 24-28 (13.2 - 15.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever

And believe me, you wouldn't want a Conk going to +3... Additionally, maybe Gliscor can tox it, but that would mean you're still sacrificing a poke to get a chance (!) of beating Conk.

 

2. Reuniclus is legit, however it's a psychic type which can be pursuited by the likes of Scizor, Tyranitar and some others that do not come to my head for now.

 

3. Slowbro is crippled without Regenerator, additionally it's weak to Thunderpunch.

 

4. Bulky Salamence is probably THE most legit counter we currently have in our meta. Even if pursuit trapped it won't take a lot, can Wish + Protect if necessary and can hit Conk pretty hard with a Draco Meteor (heh) or Dragon Pulse or Supersonic sky... wait

A poke which noone's running pretty much. And additionally, if meta forces us to use something like this just to stop Conk, it really means something is going wrong here.

 

5. Saur would be legit if growth would be working, probably.

 

6. Golurk jajaja

 

Additionally, Conk's bulk is far from poor. Even without investment it reaches 180 hp and 115 defense stats, old meta bold defensive Sableye didn't have such bulk with max investment smh.

 

I got a headache for 2 days already so I'll stop at this for now. Also ban dugtrio

 

E:

 

Forgot to mention a defensive Amoonguus but it's also busted without Regenerator

Edited February 4, 2018 by RysPicz

[pachima]

42 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

I'm starting to think that currently in our metagame, Conkeldurr is way too much to handle. With it's mighty 140 base attack, highest from all non-legendary fighting types, the walking mountain of muscles is also boasting a great movepool and an amazing ability in Guts, which makes you think twice before you will lay down some toxic spikes. Unless you're up for a wild ride. Let's list the potential counters of the standard Conk set (TPunch, Drain Punch, Bulkup, Mach):

 

- Latios and Latias

- Gliscor

- Reuniclus

- Zapdos

- Lando-T

- Celebi

- Slowbro (not really)

- Mew

- Bulky Salamence (?! who the hell runs this anyway)

- Cresselia

- Maybe Venusaur

- Fairy types

 

I might've missed some, since I wrote them down from top of my head. How many of these do we have in our meta?

1. Gliscor which is barely viable due to lack of it's amazing Poison Heal ability. It sure can switch in on Conk but I'm not sure how can it stop Conk in it's tracks without the boosted recovery and it's EQ will not do enough to Conk which will gradually keep recovering with Drain Punch:

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. +1 4 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 39-46 (21.5 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. +2 4 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 28-34 (15.4 - 18.7%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. +3 4 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 24-28 (13.2 - 15.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever

And believe me, you wouldn't want a Conk going to +3... Additionally, maybe Gliscor can tox it, but that would mean you're still sacrificing a poke to get a chance (!) of beating Conk.

 

2. Reuniclus is legit, however it's a psychic type which can be pursuited by the likes of Scizor, Tyranitar and some others that do not come to my head for now.

 

3. Slowbro is crippled without Regenerator, additionally it's weak to Thunderpunch.

 

4. Bulky Salamence is probably THE most legit counter we currently have in our meta. Even if pursuit trapped it won't take a lot, can Wish + Protect if necessary and can hit Conk pretty hard with a Draco Meteor (heh) or Dragon Pulse or Supersonic sky... wait

A poke which noone's running pretty much. And additionally, if meta forces us to use something like this just to stop Conk, it really means something is going wrong here.

 

5. Saur would be legit if growth would be working, probably.

 

6. Golurk jajaja

 

Additionally, Conk's bulk is far from poor. Even without investment it reaches 180 hp and 115 defense stats, old meta bold defensive Sableye didn't have such bulk with max investment smh.

 

I got a headache for 2 days already so I'll stop at this for now. Also ban dugtrio

 

E:

 

Forgot to mention a defensive Amoonguus but it's also busted without Regenerator

I completely agree. Tc must have overlooked the changes between mmo and showdown. This isnt the only case where a single mon benefits too much from such changes. Hydreigon is probably the second case where this is obvious, and I cant imagine it not being banned after having draco meteor (If it is not, then tc is bad)

Anyway, as far as my experience goes, conk reached the point where if you need to counter it, you are forced not to sac that only one mon you have built on your team specifically for this beast. Its attack stat is monstrous, but as forfiter said, its selling point is the bulkiness associated to it. Unfortunately, cause of this, our current OU metagame kinda struggles to take down this one pokemon. I am pretty sure usages will speak for themselves. Right now each duel has 4 conkeldurrs in it.

[razimove]

Please consider fixing the current tiers by usage, and please... consider opening ubers again, dugtrio, wobb and conkel really harm the metagame per say imo.

Edited February 7, 2018 by redspawn

[TiToooo]

3 hours ago, redspawn said:

Please consider fixing the current tiers by usage, and please... consider opening ubers again, dugtrio, wobb and conkel really harm the metagame per say imo.

those why? it seems to me that this tier is quite level and everything has its counter,
especially those 2 that point ...

[razimove]

5 hours ago, TiToooo said:

those why? it seems to me that this tier is quite level and everything has its counter,
especially those 2 that point ...

wot? Dugtrio for revenge trapping is a ridiculously strong pokemon, not only that, it will also be a good lead when we have focus sash. 

Conkel literally controls the metagame, you have to bring a counter expecting one, we don't have team preview, nor do we have access to a good amount of items who could make this somewhat more balanced, plus, what do you consider his counter? Sacrifice psyshock for psychic on reuniclus? Try to PP stall with milotic which won't end well a lot of times? Bring a gengar and expect that he doens't ice punch/payback/stone edge/tpunch you? His bulkiness, plus his ability is a problem, it would be fine to say, oh he's really strong, but wow kind of stops his snowball, but yeah not even that. 

[TiToooo]

1 minute ago, redspawn said:

wot? Dugtrio for revenge trapping is a ridiculously strong pokemon, not only that, it will also be a good lead when we have focus sash. 

Conkel literally controls the metagame, you have to bring a counter expecting one, we don't have team preview, nor do we have access to a good amount of items who could make this somewhat more balanced, plus, what do you consider his counter? Sacrifice psyshock for psychic on reuniclus? Try to PP stall with milotic which won't end well a lot of times? Bring a gengar and expect that he doens't ice punch/payback/stone edge/tpunch you? His bulkiness, plus his ability is a problem, it would be fine to say, oh he's really strong, but wow kind of stops his snowball, but yeah not even that. 

with any flying guy you beat the dugtrio, there's nothing to complain about

 

pls psychoshock +2 boosted it does good damage lol

you just have to know how to play