so after talking with some tier council and staff i learned of a plan for the future of the game. basically
"no ubers, everything that SHOULD belong in ubers is goign to get a nerf to keep it in ou. example would be changing say salamances base stats or they way a ability or move works for all pokemon because of one or two pokemon."
my suggestion is to scrap this idea and just do tier'ing the way we always have and have a ubers tier.
my reasoning,
one far reaching consequences. at the moment their are 9 ubers in pokemmo. 11 if you count mewtwo and rayquaza. the current plan for slamance is to nerf outrage for ALL 50 or so pokemon that can learn it all across multiple tiers. this changes not just the one tier with the one pokemon but everything in every tier. many unintentional nerfs or buffs will be created by this ONE change upsetting the balance. gen 5 has 22 ubers if you count all the multi form pokes like arceus as a single uber. this will very significantly change the game from the original "balance" intended. we all know pokemon handhelds are not perfectly balanced. that is why we have tiers and tier councils int he first place. all of these changes will change the tiers, checks, and counters and then you will have to balance them again. but ubers arent allowed so MORE CHANGES.
two learning curve. pokemon has a high learning curve. lots of people play pokemon as it is the highest gross'ing franchise and even if 1% bother to learn competitive thats still a lot of people. however with all these changes, pokemmo and black and white will be nothing alike. new players who learn here will google resources only to learn the wrong things. players who learned on showdown or whatever will come here and not understand what is going on and have to relearn everything from scratch, however with the bonus confusion of thinking they understand things that have been changed. this makes the already hard learning curve more difficult. new comp players might just decided that this is silly and go play showdown and not bother with pokemmo.
three cannon/tradition. similar to the competitive learning curve, but a bit different. the learning curve effects competitive players as casuals generally dont much to begin with. however they and others will see differences and think "this isnt right" and not know why it is like this. thats why we dont have create a pokemon shit. this is a pokemon game and it should follow pokemon mechanics as closely as possible.
four you are making tier'ing much more difficult. for tier'ing their is a process. you have pokemon, you take usage stats and figure out what is and isnt OU then start banning things to ubers because invariably their are unbalanced things. for what i can only assume is do to a desire to get the tiers done quicker, the method is not being used this time. instead we have this arbitrary list made up by a handful of people. the problems with this is the complexity. no one person can hold in their head every possible use of 500+? 600+? pokemon with multiple ability's and hundreds of moves and items and builds. their are so many variables and things like "how common will X be?" are unknown. however this is a rabbit trail. on top of this added degree of difficulty with will make the process more faulty, we are changing the rules and mechanics on the fly to try to make things "not op". the problem with this is way back at #1 far reaching consequences. one little change changes hundreds of things and when you make a lot of changes all at once it becomes too much for anyone to KNOW what will happen for sure. this is going to have faults not because the tier council sucks or whatever but because too much is being asked of them. their are too many variables and possibility's to say what will or will not be broken when you add all these changes on top of the already difficult changes to tier'ing process. their will be things that are uber because their counters got nerfed and until we go live and test and find these things we wont know. then what? well MORE CHANGES and the process continues. the weeks become months and the months become years of changes to moves and ability's and mechanics. to try and prevent anything from being uber. and these changes lead to more things being uber as their counters get nerfed or somethign else gets buffed and unexpectedly a rarely used pokemon is now stupidly strong.
having a ubers tier is the simplest way. yes some pokemon wont be usable in competitive play. this has always been this way. this will always be this way. their will always be pokemon that are either too strong or not strong enough to be used in a tier. trying to find the perfect solution for this is just going to create more problems. their is no perfect solution. going down the path of this folly will lead to a lot of dev time down the drain and a lot of people upset because the teirs are in chaos trying to get this sorted. every attempt to change the game to balance this will lead to more problems. their is no fix. pls dont so this.
Question
fredrichnietze
so after talking with some tier council and staff i learned of a plan for the future of the game. basically
"no ubers, everything that SHOULD belong in ubers is goign to get a nerf to keep it in ou. example would be changing say salamances base stats or they way a ability or move works for all pokemon because of one or two pokemon."
my suggestion is to scrap this idea and just do tier'ing the way we always have and have a ubers tier.
my reasoning,
one far reaching consequences. at the moment their are 9 ubers in pokemmo. 11 if you count mewtwo and rayquaza. the current plan for slamance is to nerf outrage for ALL 50 or so pokemon that can learn it all across multiple tiers. this changes not just the one tier with the one pokemon but everything in every tier. many unintentional nerfs or buffs will be created by this ONE change upsetting the balance. gen 5 has 22 ubers if you count all the multi form pokes like arceus as a single uber. this will very significantly change the game from the original "balance" intended. we all know pokemon handhelds are not perfectly balanced. that is why we have tiers and tier councils int he first place. all of these changes will change the tiers, checks, and counters and then you will have to balance them again. but ubers arent allowed so MORE CHANGES.
two learning curve. pokemon has a high learning curve. lots of people play pokemon as it is the highest gross'ing franchise and even if 1% bother to learn competitive thats still a lot of people. however with all these changes, pokemmo and black and white will be nothing alike. new players who learn here will google resources only to learn the wrong things. players who learned on showdown or whatever will come here and not understand what is going on and have to relearn everything from scratch, however with the bonus confusion of thinking they understand things that have been changed. this makes the already hard learning curve more difficult. new comp players might just decided that this is silly and go play showdown and not bother with pokemmo.
three cannon/tradition. similar to the competitive learning curve, but a bit different. the learning curve effects competitive players as casuals generally dont much to begin with. however they and others will see differences and think "this isnt right" and not know why it is like this. thats why we dont have create a pokemon shit. this is a pokemon game and it should follow pokemon mechanics as closely as possible.
four you are making tier'ing much more difficult. for tier'ing their is a process. you have pokemon, you take usage stats and figure out what is and isnt OU then start banning things to ubers because invariably their are unbalanced things. for what i can only assume is do to a desire to get the tiers done quicker, the method is not being used this time. instead we have this arbitrary list made up by a handful of people. the problems with this is the complexity. no one person can hold in their head every possible use of 500+? 600+? pokemon with multiple ability's and hundreds of moves and items and builds. their are so many variables and things like "how common will X be?" are unknown. however this is a rabbit trail. on top of this added degree of difficulty with will make the process more faulty, we are changing the rules and mechanics on the fly to try to make things "not op". the problem with this is way back at #1 far reaching consequences. one little change changes hundreds of things and when you make a lot of changes all at once it becomes too much for anyone to KNOW what will happen for sure. this is going to have faults not because the tier council sucks or whatever but because too much is being asked of them. their are too many variables and possibility's to say what will or will not be broken when you add all these changes on top of the already difficult changes to tier'ing process. their will be things that are uber because their counters got nerfed and until we go live and test and find these things we wont know. then what? well MORE CHANGES and the process continues. the weeks become months and the months become years of changes to moves and ability's and mechanics. to try and prevent anything from being uber. and these changes lead to more things being uber as their counters get nerfed or somethign else gets buffed and unexpectedly a rarely used pokemon is now stupidly strong.
having a ubers tier is the simplest way. yes some pokemon wont be usable in competitive play. this has always been this way. this will always be this way. their will always be pokemon that are either too strong or not strong enough to be used in a tier. trying to find the perfect solution for this is just going to create more problems. their is no perfect solution. going down the path of this folly will lead to a lot of dev time down the drain and a lot of people upset because the teirs are in chaos trying to get this sorted. every attempt to change the game to balance this will lead to more problems. their is no fix. pls dont so this.
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who the hell makes a numbered list but types out the word instead of using the number???
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