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Proposed Temporary Update Tiers Discussion


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4 minutes ago, Toast said:

reason for bisharp going BL?

Defog actually having good distribution now + no team preview, along with the fact that Bisharp kind of tears apart everything in UU with a +2 Boost is a bit much. It punishes defog insanely hard, with pretty much no good switchins.

 

It was already probably gonna be a pretty solid UU pokemon beforehand IMO, but it's interaction with Defog is incredibly shitty for the tier.

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4 minutes ago, Senile said:

Defog actually having good distribution now + no team preview, along with the fact that Bisharp kind of tears apart everything in UU with a +2 Boost is a bit much. It punishes defog insanely hard, with pretty much no good switchins.

 

It was already probably gonna be a pretty solid UU pokemon beforehand IMO, but it's interaction with Defog is incredibly shitty for the tier.

oh right i forgot it got defiant, yeh i see it now, didnt think about the defog distribution beforehand

lol @ no team preview still

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15 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said:

So Slaking is NU, and everyone finds that legit..

Am I missing something? Looking for reasoning behind these changes..

Far more Ghost-types. Eviolite makes defenses better. Steels are pretty common. Slaking didn't really improve his moves excluding Giga Impact. 

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16 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said:

So Slaking is NU, and everyone finds that legit..

Am I missing something? Looking for reasoning behind these changes..

They just said they ll not put RU/PU cus our low tiers already have low number of players...

But making NU a big gangbang.... isnt the right way IMO LOL

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7 minutes ago, Toast said:

seems too early for a defined NU tier anyways. appreciate TC's effort for a decent OU/UU tier (they look pretty solid) but i dont think its really been played yet so who knows how the tiers will change

Hasn't been played at all TBH since all the abilities and items these tiers were made with in mind don't work yet.

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People are clinging too hard to the old concepts of what is UU, NU, etc. Take what you thought you knew and throw it out the window. Also, not everything will be perfect. If the arguments for moving slaking up are convincing we can certainly make a change. I think it's hard to make those arguments now thoigh since we don't have any idea what NU really plays like yet

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25 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

People are clinging too hard to the old concepts of what is UU, NU, etc. Take what you thought you knew and throw it out the window. Also, not everything will be perfect. If the arguments for moving slaking up are convincing we can certainly make a change. I think it's hard to make those arguments now thoigh since we don't have any idea what NU really plays like yet

This kind of thinking is exactly why we really shouldn't have just "made" UU and NU tiers. Trying not to uguu, but it still has me triggered. Although I do appreciate the fact we are letting a lot of stuff stay down and reorganize organically. It's like, a bit of a compromise. 

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5 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

This kind of thinking is exactly why we really shouldn't have just "made" UU and NU tiers. Trying not to uguu, but it still has me triggered. Although I do appreciate the fact we are letting a lot of stuff stay down and reorganize organically. It's like, a bit of a compromise. 

Yeah I get that sentiment. I think it'll all work itself out though. Maybe I'm just being optimistic haha but nothing is beyond fixable imo

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34 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

People are clinging too hard to the old concepts of what is UU, NU, etc. Take what you thought you knew and throw it out the window. Also, not everything will be perfect. If the arguments for moving slaking up are convincing we can certainly make a change. I think it's hard to make those arguments now thoigh since we don't have any idea what NU really plays like yet

I'll quote you once again when Slaking, Zangoose, etc will be banned to upper tiers, we'll see about throwing out everything out the window, it doesn't take a genius to conclude those pokes are way more broken for Nu

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5 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Yeah I get that sentiment. I think it'll all work itself out though. Maybe I'm just being optimistic haha but nothing is beyond fixable imo

On the other hand though, having let the PokeMMO playerbase develop the mons we probably would have seen an "old meta" heavy usage list in the lower tiers, excluding things that are obviously good. This way we force some things into use, whether that's good or not. 

 

4 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said:

I'll quote you once again when Slaking, Zangoose, etc will be banned to upper tiers, we'll see about throwing out everything out the window, it doesn't take a genius to conclude those pokes are way more broken for Nu

If it happens it happens, I'd rather see than speculate. The tiers won't be "stabilized" for a long, long time regardless.  

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13 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

On the other hand though, having let the PokeMMO playerbase develop the mons we probably would have seen an "old meta" heavy usage list in the lower tiers, excluding things that are obviously good. This way we force some things into use, whether that's good or not. 

I agree - quite an interesting point.

 

This way, whilst some things may seem out of place currently, at least we still get a little taste of what’s to come once everything has equilibrated. Moreso, expecting everything to be sorted at a time when the update is still so young is silly; the objectivity of usage-based tiering can’t be compared to an inarguably more subjective attempt at building tiers (somewhat) de novo, so naturally there are going to be differences in opinions across the playerbase before we’ve had a chance to really test anything. 

 

Having said that, I have a feeling that we’re still going to see a lot of Venusaurs, Swamperts and the like in the upcoming OU tournament, providing it gets enough signups. 

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1 hour ago, DoubleJ said:

Far more Ghost-types. Eviolite makes defenses better. Steels are pretty common. Slaking didn't really improve his moves excluding Giga Impact. 

Eviolite isn't working yet, and Giga Impact is trash since it traps the user while charging, ruining Slaking's hit and run strategy. Still, NU might not be able to handle it yet.

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Zangoose could overwhelm NU too, it can run Fire Punch/Close Combat and Shadow Claw to kill would-be counters after setting up. I'd say it's more dangerous than Slaking ever will be.

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1 hour ago, notmudkip0 said:

Eviolite isn't working yet, and Giga Impact is trash since it traps the user while charging, ruining Slaking's hit and run strategy. Still, NU might not be able to handle it yet.

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Zangoose could overwhelm NU too, it can run Fire Punch/Close Combat and Shadow Claw to kill would-be counters after setting up. I'd say it's more dangerous than Slaking ever will be.

Sub + drum to activate salac would mean it gets slayed by 4mss. 3 attack without sitrus means fast ghost beats it up (haunter!!!!)

 

One of those things l have to see.

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So let me get this straight, we only have one viable stealth rocks setter in OU because we don't have a stealth rocks tutor or tm? Ferrothorn obtains it through breeding with one of the minerals. Aside from that Golem, Steelix, and Gigalith are likely falling to the lower tiers. Gigalith could be seen on Trick Room dubs teams, but that's hard to build around because of the few good Trick Room setters we have. Speculating here, but we're likely either going to have overpowered Dragons or Ferrothorn with 80% usage. 

 

#devspleasepatch

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7 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

So let me get this straight, we only have one viable stealth rocks setter in OU because we don't have a stealth rocks tutor or tm? Ferrothorn obtains it through breeding with one of the minerals. Aside from that Golem, Steelix, and Gigalith are likely falling to the lower tiers. Gigalith could be seen on Trick Room dubs teams, but that's hard to build around because of the few good Trick Room setters we have. Speculating here, but we're likely either going to have overpowered Dragons or Ferrothorn with 80% usage. 

 

#devspleasepatch

I mean, the tier lists here we made on the assumption that the relevant abilities/moves/items actually work. We don't have SR on much right now, but we should soon, as we're assuming the tutors should come in relatively soon.

 

Also, praise ferrothorn.

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