Toast Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 reason for bisharp going BL? Link to comment
Senile Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Toast said: reason for bisharp going BL? Defog actually having good distribution now + no team preview, along with the fact that Bisharp kind of tears apart everything in UU with a +2 Boost is a bit much. It punishes defog insanely hard, with pretty much no good switchins. It was already probably gonna be a pretty solid UU pokemon beforehand IMO, but it's interaction with Defog is incredibly shitty for the tier. Link to comment
Toast Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Senile said: Defog actually having good distribution now + no team preview, along with the fact that Bisharp kind of tears apart everything in UU with a +2 Boost is a bit much. It punishes defog insanely hard, with pretty much no good switchins. It was already probably gonna be a pretty solid UU pokemon beforehand IMO, but it's interaction with Defog is incredibly shitty for the tier. oh right i forgot it got defiant, yeh i see it now, didnt think about the defog distribution beforehand lol @ no team preview still DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
Mnemosyne Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 do we have cancel button now? Link to comment
Zymogen Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mnemosyne said: do we have cancel button now? For doubles and triples yeah, but not singles for a reason unbeknown to me Edited November 17, 2017 by Zymogen Link to comment
gbwead Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Cause dubs aint a tier and players are therefore incentivized to give up xD Zymogen, pachima and axx 3 Link to comment
Laz Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 So Slaking is NU, and everyone finds that legit.. Am I missing something? Looking for reasoning behind these changes.. Link to comment
Gunthug Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Just now, Lazaro23 said: So Slaking is NU, and everyone finds that legit.. Am I missing something? Looking for reasoning behind these changes.. Why should it be UU? Burden of proof is on the one complaining Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said: So Slaking is NU, and everyone finds that legit.. Am I missing something? Looking for reasoning behind these changes.. Far more Ghost-types. Eviolite makes defenses better. Steels are pretty common. Slaking didn't really improve his moves excluding Giga Impact. gbwead 1 Link to comment
Risadex Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said: So Slaking is NU, and everyone finds that legit.. Am I missing something? Looking for reasoning behind these changes.. They just said they ll not put RU/PU cus our low tiers already have low number of players... But making NU a big gangbang.... isnt the right way IMO LOL Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 In upper tiers it's just outclassed. I'm sure discussion will be had if it appears overpowered for nu though. Gunthug 1 Link to comment
Toast Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 seems too early for a defined NU tier anyways. appreciate TC's effort for a decent OU/UU tier (they look pretty solid) but i dont think its really been played yet so who knows how the tiers will change DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
Munya Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Toast said: seems too early for a defined NU tier anyways. appreciate TC's effort for a decent OU/UU tier (they look pretty solid) but i dont think its really been played yet so who knows how the tiers will change Hasn't been played at all TBH since all the abilities and items these tiers were made with in mind don't work yet. Toast 1 Link to comment
Gunthug Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 People are clinging too hard to the old concepts of what is UU, NU, etc. Take what you thought you knew and throw it out the window. Also, not everything will be perfect. If the arguments for moving slaking up are convincing we can certainly make a change. I think it's hard to make those arguments now thoigh since we don't have any idea what NU really plays like yet Goldeneyes, gbwead, Toast and 4 others 7 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 25 minutes ago, Gunthug said: People are clinging too hard to the old concepts of what is UU, NU, etc. Take what you thought you knew and throw it out the window. Also, not everything will be perfect. If the arguments for moving slaking up are convincing we can certainly make a change. I think it's hard to make those arguments now thoigh since we don't have any idea what NU really plays like yet This kind of thinking is exactly why we really shouldn't have just "made" UU and NU tiers. Trying not to uguu, but it still has me triggered. Although I do appreciate the fact we are letting a lot of stuff stay down and reorganize organically. It's like, a bit of a compromise. Laz 1 Link to comment
Gunthug Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, DoubleJ said: This kind of thinking is exactly why we really shouldn't have just "made" UU and NU tiers. Trying not to uguu, but it still has me triggered. Although I do appreciate the fact we are letting a lot of stuff stay down and reorganize organically. It's like, a bit of a compromise. Yeah I get that sentiment. I think it'll all work itself out though. Maybe I'm just being optimistic haha but nothing is beyond fixable imo Link to comment
Laz Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 34 minutes ago, Gunthug said: People are clinging too hard to the old concepts of what is UU, NU, etc. Take what you thought you knew and throw it out the window. Also, not everything will be perfect. If the arguments for moving slaking up are convincing we can certainly make a change. I think it's hard to make those arguments now thoigh since we don't have any idea what NU really plays like yet I'll quote you once again when Slaking, Zangoose, etc will be banned to upper tiers, we'll see about throwing out everything out the window, it doesn't take a genius to conclude those pokes are way more broken for Nu Link to comment
Gunthug Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said: I'll quote you once again when Slaking, Zangoose, etc will be banned to upper tiers, we'll see about throwing out everything out the window, it doesn't take a genius to conclude those pokes are way more broken for Nu That's fine haha, I'm wrong all the time Goldeneyes 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Gunthug said: Yeah I get that sentiment. I think it'll all work itself out though. Maybe I'm just being optimistic haha but nothing is beyond fixable imo On the other hand though, having let the PokeMMO playerbase develop the mons we probably would have seen an "old meta" heavy usage list in the lower tiers, excluding things that are obviously good. This way we force some things into use, whether that's good or not. 4 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said: I'll quote you once again when Slaking, Zangoose, etc will be banned to upper tiers, we'll see about throwing out everything out the window, it doesn't take a genius to conclude those pokes are way more broken for Nu If it happens it happens, I'd rather see than speculate. The tiers won't be "stabilized" for a long, long time regardless. Link to comment
Zymogen Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, DoubleJ said: On the other hand though, having let the PokeMMO playerbase develop the mons we probably would have seen an "old meta" heavy usage list in the lower tiers, excluding things that are obviously good. This way we force some things into use, whether that's good or not. I agree - quite an interesting point. This way, whilst some things may seem out of place currently, at least we still get a little taste of what’s to come once everything has equilibrated. Moreso, expecting everything to be sorted at a time when the update is still so young is silly; the objectivity of usage-based tiering can’t be compared to an inarguably more subjective attempt at building tiers (somewhat) de novo, so naturally there are going to be differences in opinions across the playerbase before we’ve had a chance to really test anything. Having said that, I have a feeling that we’re still going to see a lot of Venusaurs, Swamperts and the like in the upcoming OU tournament, providing it gets enough signups. DoubleJ and Gunthug 2 Link to comment
notmudkip0 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 1 hour ago, DoubleJ said: Far more Ghost-types. Eviolite makes defenses better. Steels are pretty common. Slaking didn't really improve his moves excluding Giga Impact. Eviolite isn't working yet, and Giga Impact is trash since it traps the user while charging, ruining Slaking's hit and run strategy. Still, NU might not be able to handle it yet. -------------- Zangoose could overwhelm NU too, it can run Fire Punch/Close Combat and Shadow Claw to kill would-be counters after setting up. I'd say it's more dangerous than Slaking ever will be. Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 1 hour ago, notmudkip0 said: Eviolite isn't working yet, and Giga Impact is trash since it traps the user while charging, ruining Slaking's hit and run strategy. Still, NU might not be able to handle it yet. -------------- Zangoose could overwhelm NU too, it can run Fire Punch/Close Combat and Shadow Claw to kill would-be counters after setting up. I'd say it's more dangerous than Slaking ever will be. Sub + drum to activate salac would mean it gets slayed by 4mss. 3 attack without sitrus means fast ghost beats it up (haunter!!!!) One of those things l have to see. Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 9 hours ago, gbwead said: Cause dubs aint a tier and players are therefore incentivized to give up xD Suneet, OrangeManiac, gbwead and 2 others 5 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 So let me get this straight, we only have one viable stealth rocks setter in OU because we don't have a stealth rocks tutor or tm? Ferrothorn obtains it through breeding with one of the minerals. Aside from that Golem, Steelix, and Gigalith are likely falling to the lower tiers. Gigalith could be seen on Trick Room dubs teams, but that's hard to build around because of the few good Trick Room setters we have. Speculating here, but we're likely either going to have overpowered Dragons or Ferrothorn with 80% usage. #devspleasepatch fredrichnietze and Zymogen 2 Link to comment
Senile Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, DoubleJ said: So let me get this straight, we only have one viable stealth rocks setter in OU because we don't have a stealth rocks tutor or tm? Ferrothorn obtains it through breeding with one of the minerals. Aside from that Golem, Steelix, and Gigalith are likely falling to the lower tiers. Gigalith could be seen on Trick Room dubs teams, but that's hard to build around because of the few good Trick Room setters we have. Speculating here, but we're likely either going to have overpowered Dragons or Ferrothorn with 80% usage. #devspleasepatch I mean, the tier lists here we made on the assumption that the relevant abilities/moves/items actually work. We don't have SR on much right now, but we should soon, as we're assuming the tutors should come in relatively soon. Also, praise ferrothorn. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
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