Small suggestions towards new update

[razimove]

So Kyu and I think Darkshade answered a few questions in a Thread created by Xatu in general discussion, but something is really bothering me slightly.

Legendary dungeons are coming, I love this idea, I just don't like that you guys want to make us have to play through them in order to unlock hidden ability pokemons that we catch inside.

Why do we have to make our comps obsolete? How about instead of catching them, giving us Hidden Ability pills as drops from the dungeon? 

If your problem is the economy, why not make a fee per entry in the dungeon? Let's say 50k each entry(15k over the normal ability pill price). This would help balancing the economy while not completely screwing up many people.

Also, event wise, why not, after you're done releasing stuff, create a few weekly events more for pve players? Like super hard AI npcs that drop some useful items etc, or even a ''world boss'' in which each player would use his 6 pokemons to help defeating him, and would reward everyone who took part of it in the end, by the % damage they did to it? Idk, would be niec to help keeping pve active.

[Darkshade]

14 minutes ago, redspawn said:

''Very likely species where the mother fits only'' <-- this was what you said and what led me to believe you mean only females will be able to carry on the hidden ability. That's what I find dumb. The hidden ability should be carried by both male and female and overlap the other ability on ANY given situation, this way people can just rebreed their female comps, and not have to either resell them to newbies who just want some comps to try unranked, or release them cause it's easier to breed from scratch than to alter a 5x31 female into male to breed it back.

Well males (outside of breeding with a Ditto and perhaps with another of the same species) would be unable to pass the Hidden Ability, because the intention is to ensure that the only available Hidden Abilities are the ones we make accessible within the dungeons.

 

If males could pass Hidden Abilities to other species entirely, it would invalidate the intention - that's the reason I specified the mother.

[razimove]

1 minute ago, Darkshade said:

Well males (outside of breeding with a Ditto and perhaps with another of the same species) would be unable to pass the Hidden Ability, because the intention is to ensure that the only available Hidden Abilities are the ones we make accessible within the dungeons.

 

If males could pass Hidden Abilities to other species entirely, it would invalidate the intention - that's the reason I specified the mother.

But how does gender make it less or more valid? Like why can't you just catch the pokemon in the dungeon, breed him to 5x31 natureless, make him male, and rebreed into the comp you already bring problems towards the general game? I don't see a valid reason behind it, they would still be locked in the dungeon and would be used to either breed from scratch or just rebreed what you have. This ensures people don't get angry, and it's a fair system to everyone. 

[Darkshade]

17 minutes ago, redspawn said:

But how does gender make it less or more valid? Like why can't you just catch the pokemon in the dungeon, breed him to 5x31 natureless, make him male, and rebreed into the comp you already bring problems towards the general game? I don't see a valid reason behind it, they would still be locked in the dungeon and would be used to either breed from scratch or just rebreed what you have. This ensures people don't get angry, and it's a fair system to everyone. 

I'm not necessarily suggesting either gender makes it more valid - what I'm saying is that we want to ensure that the only available Hidden Abilities are the ones we make available in dungeons (So that players have a reason to enter different dungeons specifically and to ensure that we don't allow the 'Uber' Hidden abilities to be obtainable)

 

19 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

Well males (outside of breeding with a Ditto and perhaps with another of the same species)

 

• As a tl;dr this could mean that as long as the parent that has the hidden ability is the same species as the child, then the child is going to be able to inherit it.
• It could also just mean that it's 'just' the Mother, with the exception of breeding with Ditto. (These are the vanilla mechanics)

This is something we have to talk about.

 

The point is that the primary goal is to ensure that these Hidden Abilities remain consistent with the ones we wish to release.

 

If your complaint is with the fact that in a vanilla circumstance the male is unable to pass the ability (And that's a fair cricism), then that is the question that I think should have been raised from the beginning - however it has always been something that was being considered; granted, 'Mother' may not have been the best way to initially word it as it does not encompass those 'same species' breeding scenarios (As was the intention).

 

 

[razimove]

54 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

I'm not necessarily suggesting either gender makes it more valid - what I'm saying is that we want to ensure that the only available Hidden Abilities are the ones we make available in dungeons (So that players have a reason to enter different dungeons specifically and to ensure that we don't allow the 'Uber' Hidden abilities to be obtainable)

 

• As a tl;dr this could mean that as long as the parent that has the hidden ability is the same species as the child, then the child is going to be able to inherit it.
• It could also just mean that it's 'just' the Mother, with the exception of breeding with Ditto. (These are the vanilla mechanics)

This is something we have to talk about.

 

The point is that the primary goal is to ensure that these Hidden Abilities remain consistent with the ones we wish to release.

 

If your complaint is with the fact that in a vanilla circumstance the male is unable to pass the ability (And that's a fair cricism), then that is the question that I think should have been raised from the beginning - however it has always been something that was being considered; granted, 'Mother' may not have been the best way to initially word it as it does not encompass those 'same species' breeding scenarios.

 

 

I kind of wish you'd have said this a little more early on more detailed like now to not confuse me ahah, and we'd avoid this kind of threads. This pretty much gets the answer we need. For example, this being a good example as it isn't a super broken hidden ability, alakazam magic guard(correct me if I butched the ability name), an ability that is pretty useful, and actually really fun to use if done correctly. Taking this example, those with females would be able to breed a male with the HA, catched in the dungeon with no ivs for example, but bred into a 5x30-31 male to then breed with the alakazam from 1 year ago. This would be the most viable way, like Tyrone said somewhere in the thread, need to do some digging. Pretty much what you said in the latter sentence made this more clear and not as linear as you led me to believe in the Xatu thread. Thank you.

Edited September 20, 2017 by redspawn

[XelaKebert]

3 hours ago, redspawn said:

grind is not exactly true, I probably have more yen than most in pure, and most of it was done reselling stuff in GTL, no grind, pretty afk, so griding is optimal. What I don't like is that you guys are defending something that will clearly bring more harm than good. Tyrone suggestion was the best balanced way to deal with it. That way even female comps would be ok to rebreed, but then again genderless would be screwed. What about those like me who own/owned with 5x31/6x31 genderless for example, like the pory2 I had, which is modest so would become an awesome poryz but it has trace? Overall the legendary dungeon ''catch event'' let's put it in this words as it's just a mini game, is really bad and will hurt most players, if not all players. Solutions were given, and I'm sure there are even more viable solutions, but man, the ''games have to progress" excuse, is a really bad one, no developer should screws players over, much less on a game that is already on his last dying breath.

Please bear in mind that this forum is not in place to sling insults and attacks at people. This is directed towards everyone here.

 

Calling the excuse that games must progress a poor defense is a strawman. In order for any MMO to survive there must be progress. Unfortunately that progress can, and often does, render some aspects obselte. Such is the nature of the beast. If we continued with our pseudo-gen3 meta the game wold die off much faster than if new content were added that shakes things up. This is the nature of MMO development.

[Matoka]

1 hour ago, redspawn said:

 

Treat these Hidden abilities as if they are Egg moves and suddenly everything is fine, but because it's an ability everyone is so exaggerated about everything.

 

What is going to likely happen for you to get your Magic Guard Alakazan etc will be the following steps if we pretend you have a perfect 5x31 natured Alakazam

 

These are your steps if your current competitive pokemon is a MALE 5x31 natured Alakazam:

 

1. Obtain Abra / Kadabra / Alakazam with Hidden Ability
2. Allow it to be chain bred (This means getting a Female Abra, if you didn't catch one then breed the Male one you caught with Ditto and select Female gender in breeding)
3. with your female Abra begin chain breeding, giving it 1x31, 2x31, 3x31, 4x31, and then finally 5x31 in the stats you desire.
4. Proceed to breed your Female Abra with 5x31 and Hidden Ability with your Male 5x31 Alakzam with desired nature, ensuring that your Alakzam holds an Everstone to pass nature.
5. The resulting child will be a 5x31 Natured Hidden Ability Abra.

 

These are your steps if your current competitive pokemon is a FEMALE 5x31 natured Alakzam:

 

1. Chain breed a pokemon in your alakazam's egg group with the same 5x31 IVs and select the child to be male.
2. Breed this male pokemon with your 5x31 natured FEMALE Alakazam, ensure your Alakzam holds an everstone to guarantee nature, and select Male for the resulting egg.
3. You now have a male 5x31 IV Abra with your desired nature
4. Obtain Abra / Kadabra / Alakazam with Hidden Ability
5. Allow it to be chain bred (This means getting a Female Abra, if you didn't catch one then breed the Male one you caught with Ditto and select Female gender in breeding)
6. with your female Abra begin chain breeding, giving it 1x31, 2x31, 3x31, 4x31, and then finally 5x31 in the stats you desire.
7. Proceed to breed your Female Abra with 5x31 and Hidden Ability with your Male 5x31 IV Abra with your desired nature, ensuring the male abra holds an Everstone to pass nature.
8. The resulting child will be a 5x31 Natured Hidden Ability Abra.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Matoka

[Kite]

20 hours ago, Suneet said:

This says a lot, even you can't be assed to rebreed comps, and doesn't know how much time and effort, as well as money, has to be put into breeding and training a pokemon to make it ideal for battles

 

And comparing it to the handhelds is pretty irrelevant, since their breeding system doesn't force you to sacrifice parents, or braces, making it much easier to rebreed such comps.

Can't be assed? More like, all my friends more or less left the game when I first started playing in I believe 2013 or 2014 where it was just me. Yes I could had joined other groups to make new friends, and I tried just for those groups to "die". Just to face the same thing. Only reason I logged in was when Hoenn popped up just to complete that. Also I know how much money/dedication/time it took for breeding especially when I bred a 4x31 Torchic and Squirtle while the blaziken is EV trained, I had EV trained nearly 20 comps of my own in CatchMMO days, obviously that is small compared to the many other players who probably bred hundreds of comps. And I'll log in when we get Unova and maybe I'll stick around and make God Comps of Galvantula and pass them to players for free, who knows. 

I mostly use the forums to keep up with events at this point. But I digress what I done in the game doesn't matter, it doesn't change the fact that pokemon are equivalent gear in other MMOs. 

[Suneet]

3 hours ago, Kite said:

I mostly use the forums to keep up with events at this point. But I digress what I done in the game doesn't matter, it doesn't change the fact that pokemon are equivalent gear in other MMOs. 

Again, this game isn't like other MMOs. As LifeStyle has said, other games, eg WoW, can afford to lose 100000~ players, as they'll probably end up earning more, however, this game only has like 100 serious players, so please stop trying to use it as an example, overe and over again.

[razimove]

6 hours ago, Kite said:

Can't be assed? More like, all my friends more or less left the game when I first started playing in I believe 2013 or 2014 where it was just me. Yes I could had joined other groups to make new friends, and I tried just for those groups to "die". Just to face the same thing. Only reason I logged in was when Hoenn popped up just to complete that. Also I know how much money/dedication/time it took for breeding especially when I bred a 4x31 Torchic and Squirtle while the blaziken is EV trained, I had EV trained nearly 20 comps of my own in CatchMMO days, obviously that is small compared to the many other players who probably bred hundreds of comps. And I'll log in when we get Unova and maybe I'll stick around and make God Comps of Galvantula and pass them to players for free, who knows. 

I mostly use the forums to keep up with events at this point. But I digress what I done in the game doesn't matter, it doesn't change the fact that pokemon are equivalent gear in other MMOs. 

Then if you dont even play or only made 4x31, and never 5x31 or 6x31s, your opinion loses meaning, doens't it? But either way, this question is out of the way and I'd like this to be closed if you can @Darkshade, thank you and sorry to be an ass.

[Matoka]

2 hours ago, redspawn said:

Then if you dont even play or only made 4x31, and never 5x31 or 6x31s, your opinion loses meaning, doens't it? But either way, this question is out of the way and I'd like this to be closed if you can @Darkshade, thank you and sorry to be an ass.

Just because someone doesn't do something doesn't mean their opinion has any less meaning, people can logically speculate, I after all have never bred a hidden ability pokemon yet I can think how it would be done and the implications of it.

 

Can you cool your jets and stop trying to dismiss other people's input for silly reasons, its not a nice thing to do.

[razimove]

45 minutes ago, Matoka said:

Just because someone doesn't do something doesn't mean their opinion has any less meaning, people can logically speculate, I after all have never bred a hidden ability pokemon yet I can think how it would be done and the implications of it.

 

Can you cool your jets and stop trying to dismiss other people's input for silly reasons, its not a nice thing to do.

well a 4x31 costs you 400k to make, while a 5x31 costs you 1m, hidden powers are easy to breed if youm ake perfect breeds aswell, so what's the big deal there. Someone who didn't place 1m in a single comp, has no idea of their value or the amount that goes into each of the comps to re-breed them.

[Matoka]

Just now, redspawn said:

well a 4x31 costs you 400k to make, while a 5x31 costs you 1m, hidden powers are easy to breed if youm ake perfect breeds aswell, so what's the big deal there. Someone who didn't place 1m in a single comp, has no idea of their value or the amount that goes into each of the comps to re-breed them.

Your logic is saying because someone doesn't own something they aren't aware of the value of it.

 

By that logic I have no idea that diamonds are worth more than coconut water because I have never owned either of them, I hope this points out the hole in your reasoning. It's just blatantly not true, people can understand the value of something without being invested in it or owning it.

[razimove]

2 hours ago, Matoka said:

Your logic is saying because someone doesn't own something they aren't aware of the value of it.

 

By that logic I have no idea that diamonds are worth more than coconut water because I have never owned either of them, I hope this points out the hole in your reasoning. It's just blatantly not true, people can understand the value of something without being invested in it or owning it.

No, what I'm saying is, if someone never experienced or does not understand the difference in value of a5x31 vs a 4x31 and why I and many were saying what we were, it's literally because they never made 5x31, atm I'm not much into 5x31, got maybe 30 OUs 5x31 left only, and I just go for 2x31 3x27+ and they get the job done, but still those 5x31 is 30m, I think probably 80% of them are female. I'm not devaluing someone for using 4x31, like I said, I'm using worst atm. But for someone to say they don't mind, and then instead of showing that they are on the same step of us active players, they show they don't care about the game, visit once in a blue moon and use 4x31 at best? Mate.. nothing against, but that makes their opinion less valid than the one from someone who plays daily with perfect comps.

[XelaKebert]

Closed by request.

[Darkshade]

10 hours ago, Suneet said:

Again, this game isn't like other MMOs. As LifeStyle has said, other games, eg WoW, can afford to lose 100000~ players, as they'll probably end up earning more, however, this game only has like 100 serious players, so please stop trying to use it as an example, overe and over again.

I don't intend to post after this thread is closed just so that it can't be responded to, but I would like to point out that we are aware of the amount of players we have, and are able to make development decisions with this in mind.

 

"You might lose some players" is a valid concern, but ultimately that is something we're able to factor in ourselves.

We are also very likely to see an increase of players with the introduction of Generation V, so comparing it to current in game activity (after not having an update in months) is not a fair comparison.

 

Moreover, I've played a fair few 'well-known' MMOs with seemingly less active players than PokeMMO has, so I think we'll be just fine.

The comparison to World of Warcraft (while not entirely a 1:1) in this instance is a pretty fair one when it comes to gear.