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Small suggestions towards new update

Question

So Kyu and I think Darkshade answered a few questions in a Thread created by Xatu in general discussion, but something is really bothering me slightly.

Legendary dungeons are coming, I love this idea, I just don't like that you guys want to make us have to play through them in order to unlock hidden ability pokemons that we catch inside.

Why do we have to make our comps obsolete? How about instead of catching them, giving us Hidden Ability pills as drops from the dungeon? 

If your problem is the economy, why not make a fee per entry in the dungeon? Let's say 50k each entry(15k over the normal ability pill price). This would help balancing the economy while not completely screwing up many people.

Also, event wise, why not, after you're done releasing stuff, create a few weekly events more for pve players? Like super hard AI npcs that drop some useful items etc, or even a ''world boss'' in which each player would use his 6 pokemons to help defeating him, and would reward everyone who took part of it in the end, by the % damage they did to it? Idk, would be niec to help keeping pve active.

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30 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

That's what this game is though, breeding ev training movesetting is part of the endgame. Whenever new content is released in an MMO the fruits of the old content usually get left behind by the new stuff. WoW is an especially good example imo - a legendary helm you spent months farming a raid for will usually be replaced by a common npc drop a few levels into the following expansion. It's the cost of progress. Now personally, I hate doing all that shit - movesets ev training and breeding. That's why I mostly play on that website where you don't have to do any of that. But you can't expect this game to not work like an MMO. 

Was it you that had that suggestion where a portion of EVs you had on a Pokemon would be reusable on the baby if you chose to breed it? I still like that idea, especially with the new update coming where we'll be rebreeding a lot of comps. It could be very handy to recycle the grind we already did whilst we'd still keep the pokemon/money sinks.

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All HA should be release.

Example) Although Blaziken goes ubers immediately.

Because i want to play BOOST BLAZIKEN from ubers.

 

i suggest, BOOST BLAZIKEN IS UBERS, BLAZE BLAZIKEN IS PERHAPS UU?? 

This is the solution.

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2 hours ago, Toupi said:

Go spamming dynamic punch then. I'm not here to judge but no-guard is kinda mindless, where is fun in it? I don't find it in playing most powerful and easiest to play pokemons.

 

I should have specify that. By "new" I meant gen in which they introduced that item (VI). So I hope we will get it with some crafty name before gen VI. It's a shame to wait such a long time for good item.

Well you can think it's mindless all you want but the fact is it's so good it makes guts machamp useless kek. I see what you mean about AV now though, I too would love to see it even though I think it's a tad overrated 

2 hours ago, KaynineXL said:

Was it you that had that suggestion where a portion of EVs you had on a Pokemon would be reusable on the baby if you chose to breed it? I still like that idea, especially with the new update coming where we'll be rebreeding a lot of comps. It could be very handy to recycle the grind we already did whilst we'd still keep the pokemon/money sinks.

I don't know if that was me or not but I agree with it 100%

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10 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Well you can think it's mindless all you want but the fact is it's so good it makes guts machamp useless kek. I see what you mean about AV now though, I too would love to see it even though I think it's a tad overrated 

I don't know if that was me or not but I agree with it 100%

I'd love to dig the thread up but I've got a feeling the suggestion was inside another suggestion from my vague memory. I think it was also like 1 year ago soo... gold star to whoever finds it lol.

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As I stated in a previous thread

Pokemon are like your gear. A lot like WoW, when an expansion ends, you use the current gear and sell it to a NPC til you get better gear, which gives you very little funds, but you can also use it to acquire better gear easier either doing the quests against harder mobs or buying new gear from AH. Either way you're forced to progress. Your old mons are not useless, but it is a good idea (unless you want to keep the comp for whatever reason) to invest into better comps. This is natural progression for every MMO. And with the handheld pokemon games, you do this all the time you buy a new system/game release. Yes there is pokebank, but tournament wise, you have to use your old comps as a base for your new ones. 

This is also coming from a player who didn't do much breeding and still has CatchMMO comps. I only invested into a 4x31 Blaziken then started working on a Blastoise, but gave up on that project and got bored. 

Edited by Kite

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4 hours ago, Kite said:


This is also coming from a player who didn't do much breeding and still has CatchMMO comps. I only invested into a 4x31 Blaziken then started working on a Blastoise, but gave up on that project and got bored. 

This says a lot, even you can't be assed to rebreed comps, and doesn't know how much time and effort, as well as money, has to be put into breeding and training a pokemon to make it ideal for battles

 

4 hours ago, Kite said:

And with the handheld pokemon games, you do this all the time you buy a new system/game release. Yes there is pokebank, but tournament wise, you have to use your old comps as a base for your new ones. 

And comparing it to the handhelds is pretty irrelevant, since their breeding system doesn't force you to sacrifice parents, or braces, making it much easier to rebreed such comps.

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please stop comparing this game with WoW. They can afford losing hundreds of thousands of players with w/e dumb shit they come up with.

This game has like 100 serious players lmao

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5 hours ago, Suneet said:

This says a lot, even you can't be assed to rebreed comps, and doesn't know how much time and effort, as well as money, has to be put into breeding and training a pokemon to make it ideal for battles

I know this wasn't directed at me but it was still really stupid to say. Just because someone doesn't play right now doesn't mean they don't understand the concept of having to rebreed and retrain comps because of new content - hell, I've been here since the start of 2013, you don't think I've seen updates that forced me to scrap a lot of my pre existing comps to build new ones suited to the new metagame? We're playing a beta that is constantly pushing out new material (ok constantly is giving them a little too much credit but you know what I mean). If you got so attached to your comps that it causes you to uguu and moan about a currently undisclosed number of them that will have to be rebreed, then I dk what to tell you.

 

If you hate playing this game (breeding, Evs, movesets) so much that the new HA mechanics are going to make you quit then you probably weren't far away from quitting anyways. 

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6 hours ago, LifeStyle said:

please stop comparing this game with WoW. They can afford losing hundreds of thousands of players with w/e dumb shit they come up with.

This game has like 100 serious players lmao

Exactly this, and please stop comparing this to a mmo, this has no general story or guideline besides the ROM story mode. No lore or anything to even be called a mmorpg. This isn't one. Also this has no real pve either.

Edited by redspawn

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48 minutes ago, redspawn said:

Exactly this, and please stop comparing this to a mmo, this has no general story or guideline besides the ROM story mode. No lore or anything to even be called a mmorpg. This isn't one. Also this has no real pve either.

It doesn't need to be the same exact game to make comparisons. Your arbitrary definition of an MMO aside, this game WANTS to be an MMO and so decisions about future content are always going to mirror that of an MMO - including the fact that new content will sometimes render the fruits of old content less useful

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45 minutes ago, redspawn said:

Exactly this, and please stop comparing this to a mmo, this has no general story or guideline besides the ROM story mode.

That is a story.

A more fleshed out story than a lot of other MMOs as it so happens.

 

45 minutes ago, redspawn said:

No lore or anything to even be called a mmorpg.

It has all of the lore of vanilla, which is actually a fairly large amount.

Just because it isn't 'new' doesn't mean it doesn't apply.

 

47 minutes ago, redspawn said:

Also this has no real pve either.

We have some, but I wont pretend it's substantial - take the Trainer Tower, or parts of the Battle Frontier for example.

There is much more planned and on the way eventually

 

By definition, this game is an MMO:

Quote

"An online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously." - The Goog

It has MMO in the name, and our attitude towards design has always been that of an MMORPG.

This has been the case for many years.

It may not be as fully realized yet as we'd like it to be, but we're working pretty hard at it.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

It doesn't need to be the same exact game to make comparisons. Your arbitrary definition of an MMO aside, this game WANTS to be an MMO and so decisions about future content are always going to mirror that of an MMO - including the fact that new content will sometimes render the fruits of old content less useful

tell me what does this have that mirrors a mmo, besides being online, definitely isn't massive. The rpg factor dies after you clear story and becomes grind fest, you don't upgrade thing like you do in mmos and you can't compare pokemons to gear in a mmo, for pve you require gear, here? Any few lvl 100s can do all pve. Ivs/Evs/nature only matters pvp wise. So no, please stop trying to compare it.

 

3 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

That is a story.

A more fleshed out story than a lot of other MMOs as it so happens.

 

It has all of the lore of vanilla, which is actually a fairly large amount.

Just because it isn't 'new' doesn't mean it doesn't apply.

 

We have some, but I wont pretend it's substantial - take the Trainer Tower, or parts of the Battle Frontier for example.

There is much more planned and on the way eventually

 

By definition, this game is an MMO:

It has MMO in the name, and our attitude towards design has always been that of an MMORPG.

This has been the case for many years.

It may not be as fully realized yet as we'd like it to be, but we're working pretty hard at it.

 

 

So using that definition, I had no idea playing poker is in fact a mmo, or hey, online chess is now a mmo? :^), Thank you - The Goog for your wise words!

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18 minutes ago, redspawn said:

tell me what does this have that mirrors a mmo, besides being online, definitely isn't massive. The rpg factor dies after you clear story and becomes grind fest, you don't upgrade thing like you do in mmos and you can't compare pokemons to gear in a mmo, for pve you require gear, here? Any few lvl 100s can do all pve. Ivs/Evs/nature only matters pvp wise. So no, please stop trying to compare it.

 

So using that definition, I had no idea playing poker is in fact a mmo, or hey, online chess is now a mmo? :^), Thank you - The Goog for your wise words!

I've always thought an MMORPG is a game online where a bunch of people are on at the same time, on the same world/map/etc.  And when I say a bunch, I mean more than the normal caps of 32, 64, or rarely 128. i.e. the game has the capacity to have thousands of players on at the same time. PokeMMO does fit that description. Furthermore, the existence of an economy, competitive play, PvE play, a storyline, holiday events, etc. are all strong characteristics of an MMORPG. There's the social aspect with the chat box and in-game teams, and friends. Really, to me, I don't understand how you don't see this as an MMO.

 

Online Chess and Poker fall out of the description because you rarely ever interact with more than 10 people at any given time, so the Massive Multiplayer aspect is missing.

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18 minutes ago, Gilan said:

I've always thought an MMORPG is a game online where a bunch of people are on at the same time, on the same world/map/etc.  And when I say a bunch, I mean more than the normal caps of 32, 64, or rarely 128. i.e. the game has the capacity to have thousands of players on at the same time. PokeMMO does fit that description. Furthermore, the existence of an economy, competitive play, PvE play, a storyline, holiday events, etc. are all strong characteristics of an MMORPG. There's the social aspect with the chat box and in-game teams, and friends. Really, to me, I don't understand how you don't see this as an MMO.

 

Online Chess and Poker fall out of the description because you rarely ever interact with more than 10 people at any given time, so the Massive Multiplayer aspect is missing.

But there are multiple rooms of poker, all playing for the same objective. This is exactly the description he gave me. So by what you're telling me then, a game like let's say League of Legends is a mmo, because millions play weekly, on the same map, all online and interacting with each other?

MMORPG means MASSIVE online multiplayer role playing game. Thing is, in pokemon you have no roles. Massive? What is massive in having 100 online, when half of them are afk? Yeah buddy, don't compare this to a mmo, some things that mmos like GW2, runescape, WoW, fotm mmos, can do, pokemmo can't afford to do, and one of those things is going against the tide.

Also DarkShade, yes mmos currently are more about lore than anything else, especially when people refer to WoW. Don't bullshit me on that, and we both know that deep down this has no lore besides the story mode, which is not even original to this. So no, this is no mmo. This is mostly a firered/emerald platform that allows you to cooperate with multiple players at once and engage in trading and competition, nothing else. So cut the story line, cut the PVE cause there isn't any. Cut the economy because economy is broken af atm and running alts through hoenn makes you more money than actually playing the game. There is no sense of accomplishment besides in shiny hunting since the game is heavily RNG based which ruins the competitive a lot sometimes.

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@redspawn awesome dissertation, youre really crushing this pointless semantics argument. But what's your point, anyway?  Because this game isn't as MMO as you want it to be, the HA mechanics should be changed to your exact liking? So that your lazy ass doesn't have to breed a few new comps? I think it's pretty funny that you claim Pokemmo can't afford to go "against the tide" with this decision, and yet your suggestion has literally 0 upvotes. You truly are the voice of the community. 

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Just now, Gunthug said:

@redspawn awesome dissertation, youre really crushing this pointless semantics argument. But what's your point, anyway?  Because this game isn't as MMO as you want it to be, the HA mechanics should be changed to your exact liking? So that your lazy ass doesn't have to breed a few new comps? I think it's pretty funny that you claim Pokemmo can't afford to go "against the tide" with this decision, and yet your suggestion has literally 0 upvotes. You truly are the voice of the community. 

no, you're the one trying to find excuses saying it a mmo, it has to progress like expansions in wow blablabla.. dude, get real.

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Online chess and poker do not count as MMORPGS because you are not all playing the same game at the same exact time. Each game of chess is between two people and each poker room has a cap. Each poker game is also substantially different from each other. This game is making design choices to push it towards being a fully fledged MMO and as it expands there will be aspects that suddenly become obselete or underpowered. Such is the nature of the beast with all MMORPGS. We aren't necessarily comparing this game to WoW in the sense of lore or content. We are pointing out that there are large portions of game play that change with each expansion release. This is, unfortunately, going to be a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of players but it is one that is needed. As Darkshade pointed out, those with comps that are no longer viable will have a much better starting point than those who have to start from scratch. You could very well end up cutting costs down by 75% or more depending on how much breeding material you have available as well.

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2 minutes ago, redspawn said:

no, you're the one trying to find excuses saying it a mmo, it has to progress like expansions in wow blablabla.. dude, get real.

It doesn't have to behave exactly like other moms, the logic is still there even without comparisons. When a ton of new material is released, sometimes things from the old material become outdated and need to be recreated. It's very simple. Would it be easier if you could just take an old comp and slap a HA on there? Yes, but that's not actually gameplay. Gameplay is taking an old comp and turning it into a comp suitable for the new gen, using the game mechanics. It sounds to me like you just don't like the game mechanics, which do involve a lot of grind. If that's the case, this game isn't for you 

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1 hour ago, Gunthug said:

It doesn't have to behave exactly like other moms, the logic is still there even without comparisons. When a ton of new material is released, sometimes things from the old material become outdated and need to be recreated. It's very simple. Would it be easier if you could just take an old comp and slap a HA on there? Yes, but that's not actually gameplay. Gameplay is taking an old comp and turning it into a comp suitable for the new gen, using the game mechanics. It sounds to me like you just don't like the game mechanics, which do involve a lot of grind. If that's the case, this game isn't for you 

grind is not exactly true, I probably have more yen than most in pure, and most of it was done reselling stuff in GTL, no grind, pretty afk, so griding is optimal. What I don't like is that you guys are defending something that will clearly bring more harm than good. Tyrone suggestion was the best balanced way to deal with it. That way even female comps would be ok to rebreed, but then again genderless would be screwed. What about those like me who own/owned with 5x31/6x31 genderless for example, like the pory2 I had, which is modest so would become an awesome poryz but it has trace? Overall the legendary dungeon ''catch event'' let's put it in this words as it's just a mini game, is really bad and will hurt most players, if not all players. Solutions were given, and I'm sure there are even more viable solutions, but man, the ''games have to progress" excuse, is a really bad one, no developer should screws players over, much less on a game that is already on his last dying breath.

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3 minutes ago, redspawn said:

grind is not exactly true, I probably have more yen than most in pure, and most of it was done reselling stuff in GTL, no grind, pretty afk, so griding is optimal. What I don't like is that you guys are defending something that will clearly bring more harm than good. Tyrone suggestion was the best balanced way to deal with it. That way even female comps would be ok to rebreed, but then again genderless would be screwed. What about those like me who own/owned with 5x31/6x31 genderless for example, like the pory2 I had, which is modest so would become an awesome poryz but it has trace? Overall the legendary dungeon ''catch event'' let's put it in this words as it's just a mini game, is really bad and will hurt most players, if not all players. Solutions were given, and I'm sure there are even more viable solutions, but man, the ''games have to progress" excuse, is a really bad one, no developer should screws players over, much less on a game that is already on his last dying breath.

Clearly bring more harm than Good? You are talking out of your ass. You have no idea what effect the new mechanics will have on the game and any attempt to do so is just speculation, fueled by your heavy bias. 

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4 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Clearly bring more harm than Good? You are talking out of your ass. You have no idea what effect the new mechanics will have on the game and any attempt to do so is just speculation, fueled by your heavy bias. 

what the fuck? This was completely unnecessary and has nothing to do with this lmao. So please, explain me the new mechanics that never existed in pokemon and we don't know about, from HA, to gen5 movesets tell me.

To clarify what I mean, we already know something like regen slowbro is insanely strong or boost blaziken is uber worthy, but that doens't mean shit to what we're discussing here atm.

Edited by redspawn

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19 minutes ago, redspawn said:

what the fuck? This was completely unnecessary and has nothing to do with this lmao. So please, explain me the new mechanics that never existed in pokemon and we don't know about, from HA, to gen5 movesets tell me.

To clarify what I mean, we already know something like regen slowbro is insanely strong or boost blaziken is uber worthy, but that doens't mean shit to what we're discussing here atm.

"You guys are defending something that will clearly bring more harm than good." This statement is just pure stupidity, you have no idea right now that the new hidden ability mechanics will bring more harm than good. Unless you've played some cut of the new update that no one else has access to, you are talking out of your ass just to suit your argument 

 

Edit: by new mechanics I don't mean the hidden abilities themselves, I mean how we'll be able to obtain them 

Edited by Gunthug

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18 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

"You guys are defending something that will clearly bring more harm than good." This statement is just pure stupidity, you have no idea right now that the new hidden ability mechanics will bring more harm than good. Unless you've played some cut of the new update that no one else has access to, you are talking out of your ass just to suit your argument 

 

Edit: by new mechanics I don't mean the hidden abilities themselves, I mean how we'll be able to obtain them 

Exactly, what I was proposing is the way to obtain them, by saying you guys bring more harm than good, is not by placing them into the game, is the way they implement, if you have to breed everything from scratch is just dumb and litterally shows that Kyu and the team, doenst take neough time to play their own game. That's what I meant. Tyrone solution is perfect and would make it very viable to implement that way for example.

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8 minutes ago, redspawn said:

Exactly, what I was proposing is the way to obtain them, by saying you guys bring more harm than good, is not by placing them into the game, is the way they implement, if you have to breed everything from scratch is just dumb and litterally shows that Kyu and the team, doenst take neough time to play their own game. That's what I meant. Tyrone solution is perfect and would make it very viable to implement that way for example.

But I already said that was likely how we will be addressing the issue, both in this thread:

 

21 hours ago, Darkshade said:

This is effectively how we're likely to handle it.

and in the thread we were having a discussion in the other day:

 

On 10/09/2017 at 11:32 PM, Darkshade said:

It will very likely be the species that the Mother fits into only, with the exception being made to genderless or gender-exclusive species requiring the Hidden Ability.

Ditto can never breed to re-create itself, so whether it has a Hidden ability or not will not matter.

 

This way we can ensure that any instances of any Hidden abilities available within the game are ones we already released.

 

This may vary in % chances to pass, perhaps with the ability to pay more as guarantee.

Or it may just pass 100% of the time.

 

Please do not take this as full confirmation, but it seems like the most logical way to handle it.

I don't really understand how you can say that we don't have an understanding of our own game as you're agreeing with a suggestion we already established we were likely to do.

Surely that would show that we are actually very aware of our own mechanics and have taken into account the positives/negatives of this particular one?

 

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10 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

But I already said that was likely how we will be addressing the issue, both in this thread:

 

and in the thread we were having a discussion in the other day:

 

I don't really understand how you can say that we don't have an understanding of our own game as you're agreeing with a suggestion we already established we were likely to do.

Surely that would show that we are actually very aware of our own mechanics and have taken into account the positives/negatives of this particular one?

 


''Very likely species where the mother fits only'' <-- this was what you said and what led me to believe you mean only females will be able to carry on the hidden ability. That's what I find dumb. The hidden ability should be carried by both male and female and overlap the other ability on ANY given situation, this way people can just rebreed their female comps, and not have to either resell them to newbies who just want some comps to try unranked, or release them cause it's easier to breed from scratch than to alter a 5x31 female into male to breed it back.

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