A Matter of Concern...

[Summrs]

Remove breeding that will make the game better

[DoubleJ]

@Gunthug

 

Thanks for your response bro, but let me discuss my thoughts on everything you said. Yes, the development team has been a little more "transparent" about this update. We've even been provided with an ETA which is astonishing considering how adamant they used to be against this kind of thing. Consider it unnecessary pressure or whatever. Unfortunately though, like with past updates, there has really been very little done once the announcement was made that "something" was coming. 

 

Let's walk all the way back to February 11th, when "BridgeMMO" was revealed. Yes there was HYPE, but there was absolutely nothing else revealed until a month and a half later when Kyu debuted his newest "Dev Blog". Since then we've had only two PTS servers launched and another Dev Blog in July that discussed progress and obstacles they had encountered. 

 

I don't find this progress any different from when Hoenn was released tbh, aside from an ETA. 

 

In regards to your other point, which is that "the draught has been handled well," I tend to doubt this. PokeMMO initially was an incredibly fun game, designed around player interaction that tied so many aspects of play together. The competitive scene, the casual storyliners, and the shiny traders all overlapped in some way. Competitive players earned prizes that attracted shiny traders, and the casual storyliners often caught comps or shinies that attracted the other two. It was a beautiful thing. 

 

Since the beginning, the progression we've had has really split the playerbase. That overlap has since been eliminated. With the birth of breeding, comp players relied less and less on casuals. With the introduction of the GTL, breeders became easier to obtain and comp players no longer needed to interact with casuals at all. 

 

And with all of these changes, we've basically killed the shiny trading market. With the introduction of "pay-to-play" based on limited vanities and purchasable RP, anyone in this game can "suddenly" become wealthy negating the shiny market that once drove the economy. RWT has also broken the game, as several players can accrue immediate wealth so long as they evade the few ways to catch them. While I understand you earn money to financially support your dev team, you have also broken a key aspect of this game, which is the economy. Consider this one thing, RP can purchase you untradeable items that are attractive, but there can also be "rare" drops with vanities that cannot be obtained elsewhere and are tradeable. 

 

Speaking from the competitive side of this game, I have seen how devastating the introduction of automated tournaments and the matchmaking system has been. Previously, competitive players gathered and interacted with each other and staff to compete in a public setting. This was the most exciting part of this game for me. Automated tournaments have relieved staff of many time-consuming responsibilities but the allure of this game has gone because of that. I just don't find any fun playing a tournament without the interaction we among players that we used to have. Matchmaking has completely eliminated casual, competitive duels. We used to gather in Viridian and/or Vermillion to battle for practice or fun outside of our team, but now we can log on and duel in private through the matchmaking system. That too, has taken us further away from an "MMO" and closer to a "Battle Simulator". If I wanted to play a Battle Simulator, I would much rather play Showdown where I can build team after team after team without the obnoxious "grind" present here. While a global tournament chat server might remedy this, I truly think that the "Golden Years" of PokeMMO are behind us. Even the competitive shiny gift prizes are losing their attractiveness considering most aren't even viable without better IVs or a certain HP. 

 

In addition, while the "grind" itself is obnoxious as just stated, it was also a marker of how committed you were, which was rewarded by deep tournament runs and spectators encouraging you and watching in awe as you unearthed an effective new set. Without that positive reinforcement, the grind isn't worth it. Personally, the game is incredibly boring and a new update will only satiate me temporarily. There were more important aspects of this game that were buried because of new game design and implementation.

 

PokeMMO lost what made PokeMMO great, and that was the interaction with thousands of players from across the world. Today, we are isolated players, soloing a game that demands zero interaction and even in-game teams struggle to find reason to interact with one another. 

 

@Kyu

@Darkshade

 

PokeMMO was a beautiful idea and was an incredibly fun game for many years, but with update after update, we stray further from the core elements that attracted many players and kept them here.

 

If financial earnings truly drive the development team, I see no reason to change the path you are on, but if you truly care to make a fun game, changes need to be made. 

 

=)

[razimove]

4 minutes ago, Gilan said:

I think you are seriously underplaying this. Just the fact that "Limited Time" would no longer really be true is enough to severely devalue these items.

 

And, if you start printing out Desu Labcoats Coloured, I would be livid.

 

So please no, just stick to new ones, not old ones if this idea is being considered.

no lol, not saying every tournament a desu, but would it hurt to release a desu monthly for example? Or even a Ghost costume or one of the most recent, a scythe? I don't believe it would hurt the economy nor the uniqueness of those items, as they would remains incredibly rare.

[Gilan]

1 minute ago, redspawn said:

no lol, not saying every tournament a desu, but would it hurt to release a desu monthly for example? Or even a Ghost costume or one of the most recent, a scythe? I don't believe it would hurt the economy nor the uniqueness of those items, as they would remains incredibly rare.

it would.

 

Consider the fact that there are only 11 Colourable Desu Labcoats in the game. Adding 1 to that is a big deal.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Gilan

[liamolaowye]

I LOL at this xD

 

[razimove]

3 minutes ago, Gilan said:

it would.

 

Consider the fact that there are only 11 Colourable Desu Labcoats in the game. Adding 1 to that is a big deal.

wait, I'm not talking about the unique Colourable, that was a mistake if I remember correctly, I'm talking about normal limited items.

[Gilan]

2 minutes ago, redspawn said:

wait, I'm not talking about the unique Colourable, that was a mistake if I remember correctly, I'm talking about normal limited items.

still against it.

[Gunthug]

@DoubleJ There's a lot in your post I completely 100% agree with, especially regarding automated pvp and how its sapped the community's competitive spirit and energy. But one thing I think you are way off on is the beginning of your post, where you highlight that not all that much has been different this time around, compared to previous waits for updates. You mention the dev blog, the ETA, and 2 PTSs - but no mention of the literal hundreds of posts Kyu and Darkshade have made on general discussion the last few months, responding to even the most inane questions about the update and future mechanics? This information used to be bequeathed to us once every 6 months, seemingly on accident, by an errant post from squirtle or desu while closing a thread or something. Now, Kyu and company are fully engaged on the forums - if you ask a question about gen 5, you can feel pretty certain it'll get answered, even if the answer is something like "We're still not really sure how we're going to do X" or something.

 

Once upon a time, we asked for more transparency from staff and I think it's worth noting that they've really listened to us. Maybe you havent been checking general discussion though and missed this constant dialogue? I dk, I thought it was pretty common knowledge but maybe I spend too much time on these forums

 

The game's still got plenty of problems, sure, but keeping things in perspective (relative to previous iterations of this game) I'd say we're headed in the right direction. I mean, show this game to someone biking up and down bikers trail trying to hatch a shitty bagon that they had to wait like 8 hours to farm twice a day in altering cave - they'd poop themselves and play it in an instant. I dunno though, maybe I'm just pumped about all the amazing new moves, abilities, and pokemon coming our way and it's blurring my assessment. 

[DoubleJ]

5 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

*see above

I don't doubt you one bit, yes I was a bit negative in my assessment above considering the difference from then and now. I just don't feel that being transparent and interactive on the forums is doing anything for this game other than to appease the diehards like you and I. Yes I've seen it and yes it is a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately, your excitement for the new update is blunted by the fact I can't see either of us picking up the game like we used to. Can you honestly say that despite your being "pumped about all the amazing new moves, abilities, and pokemon coming our way" that you'll start playing like you used to? What is the reward of playing in your eyes? 

 

You state that the game is going in the right direction, but if you agree with everything else I wrote, you clearly have reservations about that statement. 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by DoubleJ
Grammar.

[Gunthug]

1 minute ago, DoubleJ said:

I don't doubt you one bit, yes I was a bit negative in my assessment above considering the difference from then and now. I just don't feel that being transparent and interactive on the forums is doing anything for this game other than to appease the diehards like you and I. Yes I've seen it and yes it is a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately, your excitement for the new update is blunted by the fact I can't see either of us picking up the game like we used to. Can you honestly say that despite your being "pumped about all the amazing new moves, abilities, and pokemon coming our way" that you'll start playing like you used to? What is the reward of playing in your eyes? 

 

You state that game is going in the right direction, but if you agree with everything else I wrote, you clearly have reservations about that statement. 

Let's be honest - it could be a literal perfect update that fully 100% catapults the game beyond where we could ever imagine, and I still wouldn't pick it up like I used to play. Why? Because I'm 5 years older than I was when I started playing and life isn't as easy as taking naps and skipping classes anymore lel. Regarding the rest of your post, I wouldn't say I agree with everything else - it's just that most of the problems you mentioned have solutions that I don't think are that far out of our reach. For example, I think the game really lacks a good incentives-laden hangout area to get people to congregate more. Once gen 5 hits, that frees up time for the devs to start making permanent, not temporary, solutions to a lot of the issues you outlined 

[Rigamorty]

59 minutes ago, Kamimiii said:

Just one thing, I won't bother arguing about the reasons people tend to leave or lose interest in the game, just one thing : Do something to lower 5x31 pokemons costs, 5k braces, anything, it might fuck the economy for a while, but the update also will (with a ton of outdated comps without eggmoves and stuff), this is the biggest problem and every pvp player / noobs that like beautiful mons will agree with me on this point.

I think you're actually onto something here kameme. Gonna use WoW as an example like I tend to do often, because it's the one other MMO i play a lot, also its the most successful one ever so ye.

 

Throughout the life of an expansion in WoW, patches come out that add more of that expansions content. While that happens, there are also lots of "catch up" mechanics implemented, so that anyone who just started the expansion can experience almost all of the expansion with how ever much time they've got left to do so before the new one comes out and basically ruins all of that expansions content. 

 

It's very fair to compare the situation we're in now to a WoW expansion, where in a few months most of what's going on will be obsolete. This means for people who want to get into comp, the predicted two months until the update isn't enough time to truly play what's left of what we have, and any time spent doing things now will likely be wasted. Same goes for old players too even, there's little to no purpose to do things, because everything is as time-consuming as it has always been, which is VERY FUCKING TIME CONSUMING, and with the update on the horizon it isn't worth it.

 

So the idea of making things easier/simpler toward the end of an update's (the major 6+ months between them ones) is something that should probably be considered. 

[DoubleJ]

Just now, Gunthug said:

Let's be honest - it could be a literal perfect update that fully 100% catapults the game beyond where we could ever imagine, and I still wouldn't pick it up like I used to play. Why? Because I'm 5 years older than I was when I started playing and life isn't as easy as taking naps and skipping classes anymore lel. Regarding the rest of your post, I wouldn't say I agree with everything else - it's just that most of the problems you mentioned have solutions that I don't think are that far out of our reach. For example, I think the game really lacks a good incentives-laden hangout area to get people to congregate more. Once gen 5 hits, that frees up time for the devs to start making permanent, not temporary, solutions to a lot of the issues you outlined 

Let's take a minute to reflect though. Understandably both of us have advanced in life, have jobs or other daily obligations, and other attractions that obscure our time, but consider this...

 

If this game was introduced in 2012 as it is today, would you have stayed as long as you have? Do you truly believe the community is as connected today as it was then? Are players household names because of their in-game play, or because of their shitposts on the forums? I wholeheartedly believe I would have been interested in PokeMMO, but I would have lost interest far sooner than the 4-5 years it has taken. 

 

I truly feel the game has lost sight of what made it great. Instead, we've failed to complete the game as is and instead continue to add new aspects that further distract players and garner interest only temporarily. We've forced a "pay-to-play" economy and pushed interaction among players further and further away. Shiny trading is non-existent and not because of redundancy, but because trading is near impossible outside of the GTL which promotes "pay-to-play" over anything else. 

[Darkshade]

7 minutes ago, Rigamorty said:

So the idea of making things easier/simpler toward the end of an update's (the major 6+ months between them ones) is something that should probably be considered. 

But you don't need 5x31s though - they might give you an advantage, but they're not necessary to compete.

If we can create an environment that's cheap enough to get into (Of which I think 3x31 is reasonable), while giving the players who want to go the extra mile to get 'the best of the best' gear at a high cost (Which happens in every MMO ever), then I'd say we're handling it pretty well currently.

 

We already have a problem with money influx/outflux (We're not sinking enough), which seems to be directly caused by the drop in brace prices - lowering that isn't really going to help anything.

 

I don't mean to disregard the point, but I think people tend to forget the viability of things without 5-6x31s.

 

EDIT: And to note - those 5-6x31s don't become 'obselete' upon update launch, unlike some of the things mentioned above.

So it's not like the IVs themselves are going to be hit (value-wise) by the update.

[razimove]

1 minute ago, Darkshade said:

But you don't need 5x31s though - they might give you an advantage, but they're not necessary to compete.

If we can create an environment that's cheap enough to get into (Of which I think 3x31 is reasonable), while giving the players who want to go the extra mile to get 'the best of the best' gear at a high cost (Which happens in every MMO ever), then I'd say we're handling it pretty well currently.

 

We already have a problem with money influx/outflux (We're not sinking enough), which seems to be directly caused by the drop in brace prices - lowering that isn't really going to help anything.

 

I don't mean to disregard the point, but I think people tend to forget the viability of things without 5-6x31s.

This, and Double you and me know this, 5x31 is just being perfecionist, with 1.5m you can make a 6 man team able to do comp and success just as well as someone with 6 5x31 comps.

2x31 3x25+ is perfectly fine to get into comp, I'm scratching top 100 using comps that are 2x31 3x25+, except my fresh new pikachu which is 6x30-31.

[Rigamorty]

1 minute ago, Darkshade said:

But you don't need 5x31s though - they might give you an advantage, but they're not necessary to compete.

If we can create an environment that's cheap enough to get into (Of which I think 3x31 is reasonable), while giving the players who want to go the extra mile to get 'the best of the best' gear at a high cost (Which happens in every MMO ever), then I'd say we're handling it pretty well currently.

 

We already have a problem with money influx/outflux (We're not sinking enough), which seems to be directly caused by the drop in brace prices - lowering that isn't really going to help anything.

 

I don't mean to disregard the point, but I think people tend to forget the viability of things without 5-6x31s.

I agree, brace prices aren't necessarily the answer, his post is just what got me thinking of the things I said. 

 

6 minutes ago, redspawn said:

This, and Double you and me know this, 5x31 is just being perfecionist, with 1.5m you can make a 6 man team able to do comp and success just as well as someone with 6 5x31 comps.

2x31 3x25+ is perfectly fine to get into comp, I'm scratching top 100 using comps that are 2x31 3x25+, except my fresh new pikachu which is 6x30-31.

to add onto this, here's the team that brought me to #13 on the leaderboard when I decided to actually ladder for like a week because I was bored and bought some new comps from JJ 

Spoiler

 

The only thing that's "perfect" is Typhlosion because it needs a hidden power, and when it comes to breeding for hidden power you do kind of need to aim for perfect, because it's just easiest that way to control the evens and odds. In total this team probably cost me like 3-4m and that's because typhlosion alone was 1.2m

Granted ladder is just one part of playing competitively and tournaments are a whole different ball game, but this is just to show what it takes to make a viable team. 

[Gilan]

3 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

But you don't need 5x31s though - they might give you an advantage, but they're not necessary to compete.

If we can create an environment that's cheap enough to get into (Of which I think 3x31 is reasonable), while giving the players who want to go the extra mile to get 'the best of the best' gear at a high cost (Which happens in every MMO ever), then I'd say we're handling it pretty well currently.

 

We already have a problem with money influx/outflux (We're not sinking enough), which seems to be directly caused by the drop in brace prices - lowering that isn't really going to help anything.

 

I don't mean to disregard the point, but I think people tend to forget the viability of things without 5-6x31s.

You know, my past self agrees with this. But now... Not so much.

 

I think the issue is, is that the noticeable advantage of 5x31 over 5x25, or whatever, isn't necessarily that noticeable. It's not like you just equipped Dragon armour over Rune armour, it's more like you are still wearing Rune armour but have an extra 1% defense buff (big woop). Yet, the cost difference is still astronomical. On top of that, it has unfortunately been imprinted on people's minds that 5x31 is soooo much better than 5x25; it isn't, and when they put in so many resources to get the 5x31 and replace their old 5x25, yet only win an extra .5% of their games, they don't notice it. As a result they get sad, cause the "big" upgrade wasn't what they expected (unlike Rune vs Dragon).

 

Furthermore, this game is more unique in that you have like 100 things to be perfected and different versions of all of them, compared to Runescape where it's just an armour set, a weapon and buyable inventory stuff, and not really different versions of them.

 

tl;dr - the fact that 5-6x31 is supreme being imprinted on people is the source of the problem and doesn't seem to be curable.

[razimove]

7 minutes ago, Gilan said:

You know, my past self agrees with this. But now... Not so much.

 

I think the issue is, is that the noticeable advantage of 5x31 over 5x25, or whatever, isn't necessarily that noticeable. It's not like you just equipped Dragon armour over Rune armour, it's more like you are still wearing Rune armour but have an extra 1% defense buff (big woop). Yet, the cost difference is still astronomical. On top of that, it has unfortunately been imprinted on people's minds that 5x31 is soooo much better than 5x25; it isn't, and when they put in so many resources to get the 5x31 and replace their old 5x25, yet only win an extra .5% of their games, they don't notice it. As a result they get sad, cause the "big" upgrade wasn't what they expected (unlike Rune vs Dragon).

 

Furthermore, this game is more unique in that you have like 100 things to be perfected and different versions of all of them, compared to Runescape where it's just an armour set, a weapon and buyable inventory stuff, and not really different versions of them.

 

tl;dr - the fact that 5-6x31 is supreme being imprinted on people is the source of the problem and doesn't seem to be curable.

loved the runescape comparison ahah. It's not that different in stats you don't place EVs into tho, over 25 without Evs is just as fine, yeah with 1 more IV you might survive with 1 hp, but since pokemon damage is not a precise calc, and can at sometimes have a 20% gap between minmax, that 1 iv is just there so you're happy with it. But yes I do get what you're saying, but no is not thaaat superior, just better, that's all, in runescape terms, 5x31 is best in slot gear, nothing else, small upgrade.

[soyhector]

1 hour ago, Kamimiii said:

5k braces

or 0k will be better.

 

Sometimes is annoying to farm to get money. Because then you enter happily pvp with the new pokes you breed and try to play well, but then when you are winning the RNG starts and your rival hits you like 10 critics and then you get paralized, burnt or frozen of triatack and then you flinch with waterfall. And if its not enought your rival start to insult you and you block him/her. I had complain several times of the RNG in the suggestion box but never it got down, also talk about "toxic" people with a moderator...but there are no solutions :(

Another problem is to ban players with "fake information", like happened to me...dont know if there are more cases.

[Bestfriends]

Good evening @redspawn, I stand by my past statements on air and off air, the development team are like Steve Jobs in that they want to do things really fast and efficiently. I can relate to this because I have videos I release to the public and I am sure they do not want the raw tape, they want a nice and clean video to watch with their friends. If I were to rush out footage, then the quality of my videos would go down significantly. Over time, I find new ways to innovate and sometimes those innovations take time, this includes, but not limited to:

 

1. Encoding my video once I am done taping (this usually takes about a few hours depending on how long I taped).

2. Putting the raw tape on the cutting room floor (this takes about 20 minutes to a few hours to properly load).

3. Finding the correct tune to fit the mood at that particular minute for viewer engagement.

4. Making sure I cut out as many "uhs" and "ums" as possible - unless it is a tournament tape.

5. Watching my videos on the cutting room floor to see if it all sticks together.

6. Waiting for the tape to be processed from the cutting room floor and a video is born.

7. Releasing the video on YouTube and making sure I do all the objectives.

 

Video processing is a difficult task, but imagine what the developers have to go through. They are doing something completely out of the box by making things 3d and making sure the cities and the characters line up. A good example of what I am talking about is in this headline video I published. I cannot find what thread Kyu made that comment in nor can I locate the video at this particular time, so I decided to give you the timestamps of what I started talking about this concern 17:02 - 19:21.

Spoiler

 

It is a first for the PokeMMO developers and I think we should be more sympathetic to them.

[razimove]

1 minute ago, Bestfriends said:

Good evening @redspawn, I stand by my past statements on air and off air, the development team are like Steve Jobs in that they want to do things really fast and efficiently. I can relate to this because I have videos I release to the public and I am sure they do not want the raw tape, they want a nice and clean video to watch with their friends. If I were to rush out footage, then the quality of my videos would go down significantly. Over time, I find new ways to innovate and sometimes those innovations take time, this includes, but not limited to:

 

1. Encoding my video once I am done taping (this usually takes about a few hours depending on how long I taped).

2. Putting the raw tape on the cutting room floor (this takes about 20 minutes to a few hours to properly load).

3. Finding the correct tune to fit the mood at that particular minute for viewer engagement.

4. Making sure I cut out as many "uhs" and "ums" as possible - unless it is a tournament tape.

5. Watching my videos on the cutting room floor to see if it all sticks together.

6. Waiting for the tape to be processed from the cutting room floor and a video is born.

7. Releasing the video on YouTube and making sure I do all the objectives.

 

Video processing is a difficult task, but imagine what the developers have to go through. They are doing something completely out of the box by making things 3d and making sure the cities and the characters line up. A good example of what I am talking about is in this headline video I published. I cannot find what thread Kyu made that comment in nor can I locate the video at this particular time, so I decided to give you the timestamps of what I started talking about this concern 17:02 - 19:21.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

It is a first for the PokeMMO developers and I think we should be more sympathetic to them.

One thing is to make videos, you can either make that as an hobby in which you are free to take the time like you mention, or you can have a more professional approach(relating to pokemmo), and be able to figure quickly what you need to cut etc, plus you have a good computer to actually do it professionally, usually video editing is done on Macs, don't ask me why, not much into it, I'd guessi s due to how much resources programs like MayaCad, AutoCad, Photoshop, Living Studio etc needs in order to be used in a professional environment. But overall no, you can compare, but in the end, it's not the same. I developed, not games, only did that as a hobby and never got any kind of cash or anything for them, classic games like asteroid 2D. But programming wise, is a lot more time demanding than video editing, and when I say a lot, I mean, while you in 1 day make a video, it takes a lot more days to make a simple but efficient and good program. This being said, they had a lot of time, don't bullshit me on that please, I've been part of big projects aswell and I'm well aware of what it takes, not only that, but to learn a language from scratch as I had no idea what Perl even was, not bragging or anything, you can learn a language, and work with it, anyone, and I really mean it, can and should learn to program, you'll understand how some simple tasks can either be simplified, or are actually more complex than you tought. Back to the subject, Kyu said he does this pretty much as a part-time or a hobby as of now, and I can relate to it, everyone has real life, and it will always come first, but he should organize a team of more individuals so that he could organize stuff more, take some weight of his shoulders(and the current team, I'm refering to Kyu, as team Kyu, speaking to the entire team), and get it done smoothly and more professionally. Heck they could make some snipets of it open source for us to try to help them, like they go ahead and give us in GitHub a snipet of the code they are having problems with so that we, voluntarely(sorry I just butchered that word), help them. Like more brains = more progress, and hell, some projects are really really interesting to take part of.

A good example, taking of Runescape like @Gilan  mentioned, would be RuneLite, you can find it on GitHub, open source client, sadly it was closed as the mods shut it down, but it was really fun being part of that community.

[NikhilR]

I think the best solution would be to reduce the grind and make automated tournaments more social or just scrap it. If both those things are accomplished, I definitely would consider playing the game more often.

 

Also to all those who think that 3x25 and 2x31 are "good" enough, they aren't. Maybe you guys are playing players on MM who have much inferior comps and thus that might make you feel like your comps are good enough, but sadly they aren't. As someone who has started off with such standards, I can tell you that the only benefit you obtain with such iv'd comps is that when you face skillful players that have better iv'd comps, in order to bridge the gap you kind of have to force yourself to become the better player. But once you reach a situation where you're on an equal footing with another player in terms of skill, you'll want to gain every bit of advantage possible. A 1% live can truly change the outcome of a game, so don't dismiss it as being a negligible amount.

 

That's why I completely agree with Kamimii's post. 

[razimove]

3 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

I think the best solution would be to reduce the grind and make automated tournaments more social or just scrap it. If both those things are accomplished, I definitely would consider playing the game more often.

 

Also to all those who think that 3x25 and 2x31 are "good" enough, they aren't. Maybe you guys are playing players on MM who have much inferior comps and thus that might make you feel like your comps are good enough, but sadly they aren't. As someone who has started off with such standards, I can tell you that the only benefit you obtain with such iv'd comps is that when you face skillful players that have better iv'd comps, in order to bridge the gap you kind of have to force yourself to become the better player. But once you reach a situation where you're on an equal footing with another player in terms of skill, you'll want to gain every bit of advantage possible. A 1% live can truly change the outcome of a game, so don't dismiss it as being a negligible amount.

 

That's why I completely agree with Kamimii's post. 

Thing is they are better, but just not justified enough to be made, if you really think they are so much better, why don't you go to pokemonshowdown calc and test it out, furthermore until you proof any of us wrong, that are able to hit top 100, or even near top10 like Riga, your opinion shows no proof of it. (just saying, cause you mentioned skilled player, guess top10 isn't skill enough, just a bunch of noobs).

Edited September 13, 2017 by redspawn

[NikhilR]

Just now, redspawn said:

Thing is they are better, but just not justified enough to be made, if you really think they are so much better, why don't you go to pokemonshowdown calc and test it out, furthermore until you proof any of us wrong, that are able to hit top 100, or even near top10 like Riga, your opinion shows no proof of it. (just saying, cause you mentioned skilled player, guess top10 isn't skill enough, just a bunch of noobs).

The only proof I can give you is based on my years of experience of playing. I've had pokemon with imperfect ivs that have died to rolls that a perfect pokemon would have lived. I clearly remember an instance where a 31 hp / def Hypno of mine had lived with 1 hp and twaved another mon which got me a win.

 

It's very easy for me to create a situation where it seems like a perfect iv can be necessary:

 

Say you have a 115 hp Venusaur, then look at these situations:

 

1) With 31 SpA Starmie vs 26 HP / 26 SDEF Venusaur:

 

252 SpA Starmie Psychic vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Venusaur: 98-116 (53.2 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Possible damage amounts: (98, 98, 98, 102, 102, 104, 104, 104, 108, 108, 110, 110, 110, 114, 114, 116)

 

2) With 31 SpA Starmie vs 31 HP / 31 SDEF Venusaur:

 

252 SpA Starmie Psychic vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Venusaur: 96-114 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Possible damage amounts: (96, 96, 98, 98, 98, 102, 102, 102, 104, 104, 108, 108, 108, 110, 110, 114)

 

3) With 25 spak Starmie vs 31 HP / 31 SDEF Venusaur

 

252 SpA Starmie Psychic vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Venusaur: 92-110 (49.1 - 58.8%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Possible damage amounts: (92, 92, 96, 96, 96, 98, 98, 102, 102, 102, 104, 104, 104, 108, 108, 110)

 

4) With 25 spak Starmie vs 26 HP / 26 SDEF Venusaur

 

252 SpA Starmie Psychic vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Venusaur: 96-114 (52.1 - 61.9%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Possible damage amounts: (96, 96, 98, 98, 98, 102, 102, 102, 104, 104, 108, 108, 108, 110, 110, 114)

 

As you can see from point 2 and 4, your chances of survival are dependent on the quality of your opponent's pokemon as well. Like I mentioned, you must be playing players on the ladder that have inferior pokemon which makes it look like you don't need quality iv'd pokemon, but when you start playing officials and vs. more recognized players, you'll start to see this as a necessity. 

 

If you have any doubts about my playing ability that puts me in a position where I'm always reliant on high iv'd pokemon,  then CTRL + F my name in the Hall Of Fame. 

[FuzzyRegirock]

why dont we all just move back to viridian

[razimove]

2 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

The only proof I can give you is based on my years of experience of playing. I've had pokemon with imperfect ivs that have died to rolls that a perfect pokemon would have lived. I clearly remember an instance where a 31 hp / def Hypno of mine had lived with 1 hp and twaved another mon which got me a win.

 

It's very easy for me to create a situation where it seems like a perfect iv can be necessary:

 

Say you have a 115 hp Venusaur, then look at these situations:

 

1) With 31 SpA Starmie vs 26 HP / 26 SDEF Venusaur:

 

252 SpA Starmie Psychic vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Venusaur: 98-116 (53.2 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Possible damage amounts: (98, 98, 98, 102, 102, 104, 104, 104, 108, 108, 110, 110, 110, 114, 114, 116)

 

2) With 31 SpA Starmie vs 31 HP / 31 SDEF Venusaur:

 

252 SpA Starmie Psychic vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Venusaur: 96-114 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Possible damage amounts: (96, 96, 98, 98, 98, 102, 102, 102, 104, 104, 108, 108, 108, 110, 110, 114)

 

3) With 25 spak Starmie vs 31 HP / 31 SDEF Venusaur

 

252 SpA Starmie Psychic vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Venusaur: 92-110 (49.1 - 58.8%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Possible damage amounts: (92, 92, 96, 96, 96, 98, 98, 102, 102, 102, 104, 104, 104, 108, 108, 110)

 

4) With 25 spak Starmie vs 26 HP / 26 SDEF Venusaur

 

252 SpA Starmie Psychic vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Venusaur: 96-114 (52.1 - 61.9%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Possible damage amounts: (96, 96, 98, 98, 98, 102, 102, 102, 104, 104, 108, 108, 108, 110, 110, 114)

 

As you can see from point 2 and 4, your chances of survival are dependent on the quality of your opponent's pokemon as well. Like I mentioned, you must be playing players on the ladder that have inferior pokemon which makes it look like you don't need quality iv'd pokemon, but when you start playing officials and vs. more recognized players, you'll start to see this as a necessity. 

 

If you have any doubts about my playing ability that puts me in a position where I'm always reliant on high iv'd pokemon,  then CTRL + F my name in the Hall Of Fame. 

not doubting anything, also beating npcs countless times is not the same thing as players, but first you're contradicting yourself already. When we say 2x31 3x25+, we mean main stats, so yeah ofc you can't compare that, but test me a starmie with 25 def, vs a starmie with 31 def, 0 evs invested, and tell me the difference in your calcs please.