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PSL 8 Regular Season Players Rankings


gbwead

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36 minutes ago, gbwead said:

With the way Jice made the psl google sheet, there was just no way to include post playoffs results into this. The information was not properly formated and was very scattered. I didn't really think twice about whether or not playoffs should be included or not since it was impossible.

 

Also, if I really wanted to make this thread for the losers, I would not only take the top 15 for OU, UU and Overall.

Using the argument of the incomplete work of someone else is not valid to justify a wrong way to make the rankings.
It's not impossible at all, it only requires more work, what you should had think twice was the title "PSL8 players rankings" while it's "PSL8 regular season players rankings".
I haven't said it was only for the losers, I said it was in order to make them more relevant than what they really are.
I see this as an attempt to make subjective rankings looking like objective ones while it's not the case anyways.

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9 minutes ago, Sashaolin said:

Using the argument of the incomplete work of someone else is not valid to justify a wrong way to make the rankings.
It's not impossible at all, it only requires more work, what you should had think twice was the title "PSL8 players rankings" while it's "PSL8 regular season players rankings".
I haven't said it was only for the losers, I said it was in order to make them more relevant than what they really are.
I see this as an attempt to make subjective rankings looking like objective ones while it's not the case anyways.

We also have the "PSL 8 Awards" thread that give awards in the most subjective way possible, so I really didn't think the title "PSL 8 Rankings" would be a big deal. You could have simply asked for a title change if you didn't like it...

 

edit: There is also nothing wrong with this way of doing the rankings too. Information can be filtered in different ways. There are no right way of doing things. I was only explaning why I chose to filter the information the way I did considering that the information I got was scattered.

Edited by gbwead
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42 minutes ago, BlackJovi said:

I mean when someone is top 5 with a 1-0 record you know something ks wrong, also kaerodactyl didn't get a win this season, his match vs coge was a no contest iirc.

God damn it. Fuck you Jice.

 

edit: should be fixed.

Edited by gbwead
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4 minutes ago, gbwead said:

We also have the "PSL 8 Awards" thread that give awards in the most subjective way possible, so I really didn't think the title "PSL 8 Rankings" would be a big deal. You could have simply asked for a title change if you didn't like it...

Of course but the awards are clearly expressed in this subjective way not like those rankings that hiding behind a so called objective formula.

Yes it's a big deal, look everywhere, in any sports, nobody cares about regular season rankings when the playoffs have been played, it's like living in the past.

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Just now, Sashaolin said:

Of course but the awards are clearly expressed in this subjective way not like those rankings that hiding behind a so called objective formula.

Yes it's a big deal, look everywhere, in any sports, nobody cares about regular season rankings when the playoffs have been played, it's like living in the past.

Alright, once you come out with your own rankings, I'll delete this thread. I also really don't care about the cringy sports analogies. PSL is an extremely small event. 

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Chill Krill lol, I already asked why Gb couldn't do playoffs and we both agreed that the spreadsheet was too trash (actually it was good looking, but Jice didn't set it up for the use of a program, "SM OU" and "sm ou", "didistutter" and "dididistutter", etc) to do something with it.

 

Everyone knows you carried in playoffs even if you did average/good during the season, don't need to be on rankings for that.

 

Oh and don't say but you don't care, if Gb counted playoffs I'd be #1 in doubles, it's no big deal, just chill dude

Edited by Kamimiii
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1 minute ago, Kamimiii said:

Chill Krill lol, I already asked why Gb couldn't do playoffs and we both agreed that the spreadsheet was too trash (actually it was good looking, but Jice didn't set it up for the use of a program, "SM OU" and "sm ou", "didistutter" and "dididistutter", etc) to do something with it.

 

Everyone knows you carried in playoffs even if you did average/good during the season, don't need to be on rankings for that.

 

Oh and don't say but you don't care, if Gb counted playoffs I'd be #1 in doubles, it's no big deal, just chill dude

Dont tell kriliin what to do plz.

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32 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Alright, once you come out with your own rankings, I'll delete this thread. I also really don't care about the cringy sports analogies. PSL is an extremely small event. 

I take this as "I admit my rankings are senseless but who cares ? PSL is an extremely small event."

Which I find weird coming from you, the super hero of the fairness, the guy who jump on every unfair or biased decision that someone take on this forum especially those related to the extremely small event called PSL.

 

28 minutes ago, Kamimiii said:

Chill Krill lol, I already asked why Gb couldn't do playoffs and we both agreed that the spreadsheet was too trash (actually it was good looking, but Jice didn't set it up for the use of a program, "SM OU" and "sm ou", "didistutter" and "dididistutter", etc) to do something with it.

 

Everyone knows you carried in playoffs even if you did average/good during the season, don't need to be on rankings for that.

 

Oh and don't say but you don't care, if Gb counted playoffs I'd be #1 in doubles, it's no big deal, just chill dude

 

1 hour ago, Sashaolin said:

Using the argument of the incomplete work of someone else is not valid to justify a wrong way to make the rankings.

Think what you want, it had nothing to do with me, those rankings were objectively called in the wrong way and are subjectively uninteresting when the playoffs have been played.

Like I already said, I see this as an attempt to make subjective rankings looking like objective ones while it's not the case anyways.

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8 minutes ago, Sashaolin said:

I take this as "I admit my rankings are senseless but who cares ? PSL is an extremely small event."

Which I find weird coming from you, the super hero of the fairness, the guy who jump on every unfair or biased decision that someone take on this forum especially those related to the extremely small event called PSL.

That's not at all what I said. I just don't think your sport analogy makes these rankings biased, wrong or senseless. 

If you don't like what you see, you are free to improve the rankings as you see fit, I won't take any offense to it. I'm just not going to waste time converting more of Jice text into data. 

Also, calling these rankings subjective makes no sense. You can call them senseless, irrelevant, but there is no subjectivity in the rankigns themselves. You could argue that there is subjectivity in the choice of the formula variables tho and I would be happy to hear you out on how to make better choices regarding the formula.

Edited by gbwead
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Just now, Kizhaz said:

I like to look at the listings upside down

  Hide contents

Although I'm also not on this list, not that it matters all that much

 

There are 16 players that played SM OU in the regular season. I only posted the top 15 :/

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10 minutes ago, gbwead said:

That's not at all what I said. I just don't think your sport analogy makes these rankings biased, wrong or senseless. 

If you don't like what you see, you are free to improve the rankings as you see fit, I won't take any offense to it. I'm just not going to waste time converting more of Jice text into data. 

Also, calling these rankings subjective makes no sense. You can call them senseless, irrelevant, but there is no subjectivity in the rankigns themselves. You could argue that there is subjectivity in the choice of the formula variables tho and I would be happy to hear you out on how to make better choices regarding the formula.

I think you know what I'm getting at because you already changed the title even if you think "it's not a big deal".

The other thing I pointed at is that the regular season rankings are uninteresting when the playoffs have been played in my opinion.

 

The formula is subjective therefore the rankings are subjective, it's as simple as that.

If you want to go deeper, we can say that the rankings are objectively expressed in terms of a subjective formula which made the rankings subjective.

Subjective doesn't mean it's bad or that it could be improved, it just means it's refutable, it's a matter of opinion.

So, please stop acting like I said it was bad and asking me to improve it while all I said was that the title was wrong and that the rankings are outdated.

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21 minutes ago, Sashaolin said:

I think you know what I'm getting at because you already changed the title even if you think "it's not a big deal".

When I say that I don't care about your sport analogy because psl is too small, I don't mean that it's not a big deal, but that your analogy doesn't work imo because you're comparing apples to oranges.

 

21 minutes ago, Sashaolin said:

The other thing I pointed at is that the regular season rankings are uninteresting when the playoffs have been played in my opinion.

ok, but there is a difference between "wrong" and "uninteresting for you"

 

21 minutes ago, Sashaolin said:

The formula is subjective therefore the rankings are subjective, it's as simple as that.

If I made the formula aiming for specific results in the rankings, then it would be subjective. That is not the case. JJ talked to me about his event involving having to rank players very subjectively and with the awards coming out soon, I just used the bases of the algorithm I made a couple weeks ago to make these rankings. The formula is not subjective either. The variable choices and the weights put on these variables in the formula are subjective tho which is why you are free to give your input if you seek the make the formula less "subjective". In all cases, considering I made these rankings to offer a less subjective way for the awards and for jj to make his rankings, your accusations are a pretty big slap in the face, especially since you didn't really seem to bother looking at the formula that you now call subjective. If you did look at it, you would then realise that the formula would not even work if playoffs were included. The W/L table rewards players that play more games regardless of if they win or not and the Match-up score would lose its meaning if playoffs players would still benefit from having played against eliminated players. There would be a dual inflation basically.

Edited by gbwead
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11 minutes ago, gbwead said:

When I say that I don't care about your sport analogy because psl is too small, I don't mean that it's not a big deal, but that your analogy doesn't work imo because you're comparing apples to oranges.

 

ok, but there is a difference between "wrong" and "uninteresting for you"

 

If I made the formula aiming for specific results in the rankings, then it would be subjective. That is not the case. JJ talked to me about his event involving having to rank players very subjectively and with the awards coming out soon, I just used the bases of the algorithm I made a couple weeks ago to make these rankings. The formula is not subjective either. The variable choices and the weights put on these variables in the formula are subjective tho which is why you are free to give your input if you seek the make the formula less subjective. In all cases, considering I made these rankings to offer a less subjective way for the awards and for jj to make his rankings, your accusations are a pretty big slap in the face, especially since you didn't really seem to bother looking at the formula that you now call subjective. If you did look at it, you would then realise that the formula would not even work if playoffs were included. The W/L table rewards players that play more games regardless of if they win or not and the Match-up score would lose its meaning if playoffs players would still benefit from having played against eliminated players. There would be a dual inflation basically.

I used the word "wrong" to say it was not the "players rankings" but the "regular season players rankings", it was an answer to the "Jice trash spreadsheet" argument.
The title was wrong and the regular season rankings are uninteresting for me, don't mix it up.
I think you have to improve your definition of the subjectivity, it's clear you misunderstand what it is by saying "I made this rankings to offer a less subjective way for the awards".
There is nothing less or more subjective, it's either objective or subjective and the way you used is not objective.
I never asked you to include the playoffs with this formula, to answer to it while I never expressed it is called a straw man argument.
I don't have to look more carefully at the formula because if the variants are subjective, the formula is subjective and the rankings are subjective.
See it like this, you try to answer subjectively to the objective question "Who are the best players?".
In contrary, you can answer objectively to the objective question "Who won the most matches minus the matches he lost?".

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