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[PSL 8] Finals - Congratulations to the Hungry Salamences!!


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11 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

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Tis true, I built almost all of my teams myself (aside from the trick room one). It is true that building a solid team takes a fucking shit load of time due to amount of threats the tier has, and even then you never know when you will face a gren with a completely unique moveset which will fuck you over anyway

Yeah definitely, I made all my teams from scratch (record shows it lol). Everytime I try something different I just get stomped by a Greninja, M-Lopunny or Magearna

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13 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Why assume the person playing dubs would also be the one playing LC? I thought it was pretty obvious that those don't have to be the same people.

 

I'll be there.

 

Whether you choose 8 or 10 tiers, it won't really matter if the wrong tiers are selected. The showdown player base is made mostly of inactive players that by definition are not willing to put as much efforts as mmo players. Splitting this disappointing community in 2 tiers is the worst thing to do. One showdown tier is enough.

Totally true, everyone who doesn't want to grind in a pokemon game is a complete disappointment. Shame on you @Rigamorty.

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I mean if you don't want to grind you can sell things and if you don't have things to sell and don't want to grind either well you're not motivated enough for PSL anymore. Don't tell me old players (most likely ones to get bored) don't have enough ressources to trade for new comps. Plus borrowing comps is always a possibility and I don't know a single PSL team mate that wouldn't share his comps. Just a shitty excuse to blame the grinding involved in playing MMO imo.

 

After the update this will be different indeed.

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11 minutes ago, BlackJovi said:

Totally true, everyone who doesn't want to grind in a pokemon game is a complete disappointment. Shame on you @Rigamorty.

It's obviously not that simple. The difference between a grinder and a non grinder is not just that one has to time waste while the other does not. The grinder has to put a lot of efforts towards analysing the metagame in which he is playing to make sure he isn't grinding for no reason. This fundamental difference really sets apart mmo players from showdown players relying on lazy teambuilds.

2 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

As a disappointing former mmo player who now plays showdown only, I can tell you it's not laziness or lack of willingness to grind that has me signing up for showdown tiers only. I'm just better at dpp and smOU than I am at gen 3.67777 mmo ou, pretty simple

stay with ur kind meatball.

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Just now, Gunthug said:

As a disappointing former mmo player who now plays showdown only, I can tell you it's not laziness or lack of willingness to grind that has me signing up for showdown tiers only. I'm just better at dpp and smOU than I am at gen 3.67777 mmo ou, pretty simple

I know that wasn't my point, I personnaly love DPP because it has a mega big super swag playerbase, it's competitive and (almost) every game is hyped up. Can't say the same about SM OU. Imo we need Showdown tiers to be relevant with 1) Player Base 2) Stability of Metagame, and not a filler that draws every lazy ass on MMO to it bcs they don't want to grind, that will just result in another season of RMTs and missplays and coinflip every week. That was the argument for 8 tiers and now we need to apply it to shit tiers without a skilled player based.

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Let's not write off the importance of analyzing our metagame even for showdown tiers. In dpp I, along with several other big dpp players here I've spoken with, have noticed a lot of trends unique to our PSL that help me while teambuilding. For example, our community's propensity to use swampert a lot more than gliscor and how that affects certain hidden power choices. I do think we have this luxury and ability I'm dpp moreso than other showdown tiers due to how many seasons of dpp we've been able to make observations on. Meanwhile the other showdown tier is constantly fluctuating and it's therefore been impossible to notice trends unique to our player base. I think the best thing for psl would be to pick a tier and stick with it - dpp was pretty ugly when it first popped up in season 3 and look where it's come since then.

 

I don't think sm ou is an inherently bad metagame, we just haven t given it the opportunity to solidify here. But I don't even care if it's replaced with something else (except randoms lol fuck that nonsense), we just need to allow for stability 

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Just now, Kamimiii said:

HEY GUYS I HAVE AN IDEA

 

We finally have a Showdown Tier with a good player base, why don't we just SPLIT IT !!!!!!! So we can see good players dodging each other and get to watch shitty games XDDDDDDDLMAO

even better lets just take it out completely and replace it with randoms, adv, gen 5 or vgc

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17 minutes ago, Telf said:

even better lets just take it out completely and replace it with randoms, adv, gen 5 or vgc

I don't even know how random were brought on the table, I hope this is a big joke that I didn't get cause I didn't read carefully.

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I want to give some thoughts on SM OU and showdown tiers in general. In my opinion, the reason why SM OU turned out to be a shitty tier is for 2 factors.


1.

Spoiler

 

The skill level of the players was very low for a PSL level calibre player.  I don't mean this in the way that players were consistently making bad plays or having no game plan, but rather there was a massive lack of knowledge about Gen 7 specific mechanics and even more importantly, some of these players had an extremely low grasp on the metagame and the changes that occurred during the season. First, to state the obvious, in PSL the players should know basically all the mechanics of their respective gen. Not knowing the mechanics of the new terrains, or not even knowing abilities that some Pokemon get is pretty ridiculous. I will give this a pass as Gen 7 is complicated as fuck and its the first time its in this PSL. But hell, I know a bunch of players who don't even play SM and just spectate during PSL who know the gen 7 mechanics better than some of the players. Secondly, the metagame knowledge was very low, and adaptions to the evolving meta were almost nonexistent during the weeks of SM. To give an example of this lack of metagame knowledge, the teams brought during the first week were pretty standard. The standard for the smogon SM OU metagame around the time of PSL week 1 were either stall, or bulky offense that had a few stall breakers. SPL Cancer stall or Ciele/IlovePinkMons stall were the common stall builds (I gave Cogeid both those teams, and he used those to victory the first 2 weeks of SPL.). And for bulky offense builds, the standard offensive mons to break stall and other offense builds were SD Z Bulu and Lando, Protean Gren, Setup Mag, Garchomp, Mega medi, mega pinsir builds, etc. These teams typically had AV Mag, AV growth, or helmet lando as the pivot/tank. The tier had massive metagame changes, yet most of the players did very little to adapt. The metagame shifted HEAVILY to bulky balance, which had mons like Clefable/Toxapex/Celesteela/Mega venusaur/Mew/Mega Scizor/Zapdos. The new offense included Mega-Charizard,  Kyurem-B/Koko, Trapping with Tran/Dug and many more innovations that were popularized by tournaments like SPL, WC, and OLT. But I noticed, in PSL we kept seeing the same Tangrowth bulky offense, the same exact bulky offense webs RMTs,  and Tapu fini balance builds. A lot of these builds phazed out of the metagame hard, yet they still were getting more usage than the new innovations. I have to give massive props to Raptori, who was imo the best SM player of this season. He really impressed me with his psychium Z gren which is a cool metagame item to beat the more common Toxapex and Keldeo as the main Greninja counters. I can also respect all of the players who made their own teams, and tried to work best in such a hard tier to make their own teams in. I'll get to that in point 2.


 

2.

Spoiler

 

The tier is currently in a rough state for teambuilders and has massive centralization problems. It is literally impossible to effectively prepare for every single different archetype of team in this metagame, and there is always more of these archetypes popping up as new mega evolutions and new metagame innovations come to fruition. I'll give a brief list of all of the archetypes, these include: Stall, Rain, Webs, Aurora Veil HO, Celetsteela/Pex/Clef or Celesteela/Pex/Mew balance, Dugtrio trap, Volt switch, Zard-Y balance, Volcarona sweep, Magearna sweep, and probably a fuck load more that are currently slipping my mind. The ones I put in bold are the archetypes that are especially stressful on teambuilding, as you need to put 1 OR MORE mons on your team that are dedicated to fighting these archetypes. The reason why everyone that played SM used a known entity smogon team/ tourney winning teams at least once is because they are some of the few effective teams at actually dealing with every single one of these archetypes. I shit on Frexa for never building his teams, but that was simply just for hype and to make a cool narrative. It is so fucking hard to teambuild in this SM metagame and have a team that doesn't lose at team preview. Hell, during that match I brought my the standard.zip version of SMOU Rain except I put taunt stallbreaker Lele > Hawlucha to break stall. I think SM OU is going to slowly start to correct itself over the next few months as the official ladder tournament ends and before the smogon snake draft starts. I expect Dugtrio to go, which eliminates matchup losses to stall and other bullshit that make the tier uncompetitive imo. (sry I think revenge trapping 50% of the tier is kinda bullshit.) Magearna should also be taking its leave, as it is just way to centralizing to stay in the tier. It can wall, pivot, sweep, provide trick room support, and carry a z move for every single one of its counters and basically not have any downside. Scratch that, it gets revenge killed by dugtrio jajajaja.


 

It is of my opinion that we should wait to see how the tier evolves and what bans occur over the next few months before PSL 9. If the tier stays the same, scrap it. If the players that want to play the tier in the next PSL don't prove their level on the ladder or replays, scrap it. I do agree with gunthug though that the level of the tier should raise next season similarly to DPP. I actually didn't play DPP except for last season so I am trusting he is probably right that DPP used to be shit. Finally, sorry for the wall of text but I think it is important. I also made HUGE generalizations and left out a bunch of shit in the metagame part that is very important and very hard to articulate if you don't play the tier, but you get my point.

 

TL;DR SM OU was shit. its shit bcuz players didnt know metagame/mechanics and the tier is fundamentally broken rn for teambuilders. give it a chance but if no changes occur, scrap. DPP is best showdown tier but imo only 1 DPP pls.

Edited by Kimikozen
added spoilers it was eye rape
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