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Little Cup and Multi-Hit moves


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Because of the overwhelming presence of Onix and Little Cup becoming an actual tier of the biggest event in the game, I thought this question becomes quite relevant again.

 

What's up with the whole multi-hit moves being broken in Little Cup situation? If I recall correctly, gbwead initially just pointed out that Rock Blast from Onix does too much damage than damage calculation indicate and two days later all multi-hit moves were banned from Little Cup. Seems safe to say that probably not all multi-hit moves were tested - if any. I thought it was a relatively smart move to ban all of them until we get further knowledge about the situation but it has been multiple months now and I haven't seen any posts regarding the situation by staff. And if you actually have made discoveries regarding this bug then I'd ask you to kindly explain about those in this thread. (If there ever has been announcement other than the initial multi-hit ban post, I haven't seen it).

 

Why I consider this important is that Double Kick and Bullet Seed are such notably big counterplays to Sturdy Pokemon in Little Cup. Especially Onix is becoming such a beast in Little Cup that having Bullet Seed to keep on its.. toes?.. is kinda required to have a somewhat diverse and enjoyable metagame.

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7 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

Because of the overwhelming presence of Onix and Little Cup becoming an actual tier of the biggest event in the game, I thought this question becomes quite relevant again.

 

What's up with the whole multi-hit moves being broken in Little Cup situation? If I recall correctly, gbwead initially just pointed out that Rock Blast from Onix does too much damage than damage calculation indicate and two days later all multi-hit moves were banned from Little Cup. Seems safe to say that probably not all multi-hit moves were tested - if any. I thought it was a relatively smart move to ban all of them until we get further knowledge about the situation but it has been multiple months now and I haven't seen any posts regarding the situation by staff. And if you actually have made discoveries regarding this bug then I'd ask you to kindly explain about those in this thread. (If there ever has been announcement other than the initial multi-hit ban post, I haven't seen it).

 

Why I consider this important is that Double Kick and Bullet Seed are such notably big counterplays to Sturdy Pokemon in Little Cup. Especially Onix is becoming such a beast in Little Cup that having Bullet Seed to keep on its.. toes?.. is kinda required to have a somewhat diverse and enjoyable metagame.

Not all multi-hit moves needed to be tested. Since this information is out there its a problem with the damage calculations in general causing them to be able to be +1(no more than one point though, unless multi-hit move) point of damage in some occurrences- this is especially problematic for multi-hit moves since each strike is a different damage calculation leading it to possible deal an additional 5 points of damage if somebody was very very lucky.

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3 minutes ago, Munya said:

Not all multihit moves needed to be tested, since this information is out there its a problem with the damage calculations in general causing them to be able to be +1(no more than one point though, unless multi-hit move) point of damage in some occurances- this is especially problematic for multihit moves since each strike is a different damage calculation leading it to possible deal an additional 5 points of damage if somebody was very very lucky.

So if I understood correctly: Every move can somehow do +1 damage in some cases? Is this case only in Little Cup and that would really beg the question: Why is this happening only in Little Cup?

Edited by OrangeManiac
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Just now, Munya said:

Its not only in little cup no, but it is most problematic in little cup since 1 damage is such a significant portion of a pokemons HP compared to what it would be in standard tournaments.

Yeah my bad, when I read the post the first time I understood +1 as in "set up boost" that in some cases a hit in Little Cup could do +50% damage, which seemed really bizarre. Just after posting I realized you probably meant +1 HP damage haha. Well, it makes more sense now. However, is there any information about how likely is this? And furthermore (and I know this is a very difficult question): Why?

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1 minute ago, Munya said:

I am sure you are aware that decimals are dropped in calculations in actual pokemon games, currently we round.

No, I actually didn't know that. Okay all of this suddenly makes much more sense now. Thanks Munya. I don't really have any other confusion regarding this then. Feel free to trash the thread.

 

It's just my personal opinion that even though the high rolls (when rounded) can do 1 HP more than they "should", I don't find it a valid reason to ban the moves altogether. I don't think "Broken Move Clause" exactly applies here because technically every move in the game is broken then. But if you consider this enough to call them broken, I'm not gonna really complain about it.

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@ Your second point, the issue with multihit moves is greater than that of normal moves is they can roll +5 damage instead of +1, if they hit 5 times and each of those rolls happens to do the +1 damage roll.  They also, due to hitting up to 5 times, have a higher chance of rolling those +1 rolls.

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4 minutes ago, Munya said:

@ Your second point, the issue with multihit moves is greater than that of normal moves is they can roll +5 damage instead of +1, if they hit 5 times and each of those rolls happens to do the +1 damage roll.  They also, due to hitting up to 5 times, have a higher chance of rolling those +1 rolls.

Uhm, yeah. Since Little Cup's damage variants are 0-3 HP for moves in general, I suppose that's a legitimate thing to worry about since the chance of multiple "too high" damages is relatively big.

 

And in some cases the highest roll can be the most likely.

 

Edited by OrangeManiac
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