[NU Discussion] Granbull

[DaftCoolio]

 

More like Granbulldozer amirite? Granbull has been reintroduced into NU for a couple of months and quickly retook its position as the tiers dominate wall breaker.

 

Its monstrous 120 base attack coupled with two strong STAB moves, return and double edge, allow it to rip apart an NU tier with relatively few normal resists. Solrock, Shuckle and Sableye are the best stoppers of Granbull's normal spam, however the first two are both 2hko'd by Iron Tail and has a 60% chance of 2hko'ing Sableye. There are other niche checks like Magcargo and Metang but both lose to coverage moves like Fire Punch and Earthquake. Access to Intimidate and normal typing gives room for Granbull to switch in and proceed to scare opponents with multiple viable sets, CB and Bulk Up/Substitute sets proving most common. 

 

The only thing working against Granbull is its poor speed and special defense stat making it possible to revenge kill relatively easily.

 

Is Granbull too strong for NU? Is Granbull too unhealthy to keep in NU? The Tier Council would like to hear your opinion on Granbull and whether it has any place in the future of NU. 

[BlackJovi]

you out of all people

[Parke]

Just now, BlackJovi said:

you out of all people

almost sounds like he knows what he talking about too

[LifeStyle]

My prayers have been answered.

 

I'll start off by saying that Granbull is too much of a powerhouse for NU. The combo of Return+EQ+Iron Tail alone is unresisted so there's virtually 0 switches for it depending on how it gets played.

I don't think 45 base Speed is even that much of a problem for Granbull either since it can still outspeed and 2hko pretty much any wall with one of its coverage moves. The bulk it gets from 90 base HP + 75 base Defense + Intimidate means there are not many things on the physical side that can threaten Granbull right off the bat and so they get immediately pressured against it.

Most Granbulls I see in play usually lead the matches which kind of leads to overcentralization, because you feel forced to lead something that can kill Granbull before it gets a chance to strike back (Superpower Kingler / Pinsir are good examples because of very high attack base + Hyper Cutter). Now before you think "hurr durr but Granbull gets rekt by Specs!!" you have to keep in mind that most of the stuff that can actually 1hko Granbull with Specs usually are the type of mons you won't want to slap that item on

(Specs Psychic - Murkrow bait. Specs Thunderbolt - Diglett Bait. And this is just trapping wise, ofc there's also the issue of getting walled easier by the right switch ins). Even some Specs users can't ohko Granbull with a bit HP invest and get ohko'd in return.

Oh did I mention the Careful Granbull set (Return, Bulk Up, Rest, Sleep Talk)? I've 6-0d and watched people 6-0 their opponents with that, it's a set used to break stall teams that lack Sableye/Shuckle which are the only hard counters to that set, even Solrock loses against it.

 

So tl;dr - Ban Granbull, it's bulky and strong and forces you to run Shuckle or leads that can ohko it.

[gbwead]

When I see lead Granbull, I always assume that it might be 252 HP, so most spec users don't even have a OHKO for sure. Octillery WaterSpout and Camerupt Eruption can still get the OHKO, but they are at speed tie with Bull. Basically, 252 HP Bull beats scarf Octillery/Camerupt and nearly all spec users while 252 Speed Bull is at speed tie with spec Camerupt/Octillery. Special attackers might be baits for Murkrow or Diglett, but that is not the core issue since they have no way to have an advantageous match up against lead Bull.

[FinnTheMember]

NU is easy.

 

If a poke faster than 105 speed and still has more than '85 base power' + 'stab move which more than 85 points'. Its not NU. (Yeah Raichu is not NU)

If a poke has more than 100 power with +85 power stab moves + 85 base HP. Its not NU.

 

Granbull was not NU and we already knew this. Also its funny to see donphan left NU without do any harm lol. Good job tier council ? You guys too good at tiering :=)

[Sashaolin]

When I asked why Hariyama could not become UU, answer was Hariyama is capable to 2HKO everything.

It's time to be consistent, move up this OP dog please...

[pachima]

18 minutes ago, Sashaolin said:

When I asked why Hariyama could not become UU, answer was Hariyama is capable to 2HKO everything.

It's time to be consistent, move up this OP dog please...

Which is fun cause hariyama in fact cant 2hko everything.

Granbull on the other hand.

[Laz]

The fact that Granbull got to be NU is because of  the usage rule ( if a poke drops usage, it gets moved to the lower tier )
We all know Granbull is too much for NU to handle, but with this kind of usage rule, we'll always have broken stuff just because people tend to use some pokes less during some some periods of time.
Yeah, Granbull fits uber characteristics and I'm glad the time has finally come for this beast to get moved up.
A shame though that we had to see Donphan move up to UU too early.
 

[Arimanius]

2 hours ago, FinnTheMember said:

Also its funny to see donphan left NU without do any harm lol. Good job tier council ? You guys too good at tiering :=)

It's usage

[Erayne]

Just ban it already

[DarylDixon]

and dont try to back it nu you tier uguucil

[Munya]

4 hours ago, FinnTheMember said:

 

Granbull was not NU and we already knew this. Also its funny to see donphan left NU without do any harm lol. Good job tier council ? You guys too good at tiering :=)

As Arimanius has pointed out, that is how usage works.  If you are unsure of the tiering process you can give 

 this thread a read, particularly the section under the bolded "How do usage statistics factor into tiering?"

[Mnemosyne]

Lmao fuck ya all who want this banned.

 

Granbull is NU and stays Granbull c u.

 

[BlackJovi]

1 hour ago, DarylDixon said:

and dont try to back it nu you tier uguucil

 

15 minutes ago, Mnemosyne said:

Lmao fuck ya all who want this banned.

 

Granbull is NU and stays Granbull c u.

 

Best arguments, you can close this thread now. @Munya

[kemaric]

New argue, I stopped for a year and back since couple of days, ready to breed again comps etc. Gonna start (or focus on) NU tier and just finished the snubbul's breed so please no, let it in NU.

 

#BestArgueEver

[pachima]

Meanwhile, drop dragonite to LC plz. Granbull in NU is so op, that part of its brokenness leaks to lc, we need dragonite to counter it.

[kemaric]

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 142-168 (85.5 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 280-332 (168.6 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 26-31 (20.4 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 28-34 (22 - 26.7%) -- 18.6% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 42-50 (33 - 39.3%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 34-42 (26.7 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

(Without Leftovers)

 

It's all good man.

[pachima]

4 minutes ago, kemaric said:

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 142-168 (85.5 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 280-332 (168.6 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 26-31 (20.4 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 28-34 (22 - 26.7%) -- 18.6% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 42-50 (33 - 39.3%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 34-42 (26.7 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

(Without Leftovers)

 

It's all good man.

First: 

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 70-84 (55.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

Second: Easy bulk up set up if against shuckle.

[kemaric]

Just now, pachima said:

First: 

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Easy bulk up 

adakor

[pachima]

3 minutes ago, kemaric said:

adakor

dude, banded beats it. Bulk up beats it too. im not joining both sets smh

[kemaric]

Just now, pachima said:

dude, banded beats it. Bulk up beats it too. im not joining both sets smh

You can deal with your other pokemon toc ounter granbull depending on moves / items granbull.

 

+ shuckle can encore on bulk up u know and iron tail can miss and so and so...

Edited August 7, 2017 by kemaric

[pachima]

Just now, kemaric said:

You can deal with your other pokemon toc ounter granbull depending on moves / items granbull.

 

+ shuckle can encore on bulk up u know?

u reminded me to do taunt bulk up granbull.

[kemaric]

Just now, pachima said:

u reminded me to do taunt bulk up granbull.

Not at all oO, but anyway, whatever we can discuss, you already know that the ban / deban of pokemon only depends on @gbwead

 

J/K

Spoiler

or not

Spoiler

or yes

Spoiler

inception

 

 

 

[pachima]

Im legit breeding gimmicks for granbull, and at this point, you can tell its broken