PSL Season 8 - How many tiers ?

[BurntZebra]

1 minute ago, Havsha said:

I agree that psl should never be someone's only source of comp experience, that would be ridiculous, however, the opportunity to learn from all of the veterans of this game should not be underestimated, that's one of the great things about psl, youre teamed up with people who you may never speak to in game, its how the community strengthens. And im not suggesting that 10 tierd would suddenly add noobs the roster, there are a lot of new names that are slowly establishing themselves into the competitive scene, look at people like miguelez, having nu 2 created the opening he needed to get recognized. 

Also @DoubleJ yeah I didnt mean that to come out as harsh as it did, petty probably wasn't the right term, but nonetheless if the competitive players who traditionally play psp start to move away from this game, and we continue to stop giving those growing names an opportunity to improve and show their skill, then psl is really going to see more activety problems

If you want to learn from one of the "veterans", then ask them. Whenever people ask me for comp advice, I can usually offer some help, whether it be in the form of teambuilding, or just general advice. I'm sure most other players are willing to offer some help if a newer player asks. Obviously the newer player should still know the basics before they ask a veteran player for help.

 

I would say the problem you're predicting that will happen is not very likely. The people who enter+win officials is a very different pool of players than it was 2 years ago. Players begin comp and quit comp all the time. It's always possible for new comp players to rise to the occasion and take initiative in getting picked by a manager. 

[DoubleJ]

Just now, Havsha said:

Also @DoubleJ yeah I didnt mean that to come out as harsh as it did, petty probably wasn't the right term, but nonetheless if the competitive players who traditionally play psp start to move away from this game, and we continue to stop giving those growing names an opportunity to improve and show their skill, then psl is really going to see more activety problems

And imo, that's something the player base, and the selected managers, will have to deal with when that time comes. If we put in the time and the effort, and have the appropriate results, players will get their time to shine in the PSL. 

 

An 8 tier system is excluding 16 competing players. That really isn't that much. Take a look at our sign up list and work out the Top 64, and then compare those after that. Sure, there are some good names, but there are also a lot of wild cards and players with little experience. This is going to sound extremely biased and assumptive, but in an 8-tier system there is less opportunity for the "stars on your team" or the manager themselves to simply team build and coach/ghost those "unexperienced" players. And yes, as terrible as it is, I am 100% positive there are players that were picked up and coached last season and before, even without definitive proof. I want there to be as little opportunity for that as possible. 

[BlackJovi]

Lf signups deadline so psl can start already

[DiDi]

honestly if people are worried about being overlooked because their name doesnt stick out as much as they'd like, you could always message a manager or 2 and ask for a chance to show them what you can do. if you arent making an effort to stand out, dont complain about not standing out 

[BlackJovi]

There will always be something to complain about anyways. LF start

[DoubleJ]

And honestly, would you rather be selected for your skill, dedication, and compatibility, or because the manager needed to fill a hole and you were the best thing available?

[Havsha]

Alright, well, ill respect whatever decision the host makes about the tiers, undermining the hosts authority is the easiest way to ruin psl for everyone, but my main argument wasn't meant to be the individual needs of new players, although that is a big benefit ofc, but rather that those 16 players that are brought into the community will bring in enough new recognisable names to replace the amount of names we may lose annually

[DiDi]

4 minutes ago, Havsha said:

Alright, well, ill respect whatever decision the host makes about the tiers, undermining the hosts authority is the easiest way to ruin psl for everyone, but my main argument wasn't meant to be the individual needs of new players, although that is a big benefit ofc, but rather that those 16 players that are brought into the community will bring in enough new recognisable names to replace the amount of names we may lose annually

not to dismiss this idea as i know PSL is one of if not the best form of exposure, but a regular season is as long as your now standard tour. anyone can make it deep in a tour, but consistency is key. my point is, having a good season doesnt mean you're an all-star, and if you truly deserve to have your name recognized you'll show it outside of psl to work your way in 

[Laz]

It's not like managers will be getting only 8 players, I'd say 10 at least in case of a substitution.
So there will be at least 80 players instead of 64 which people have been saying, and players will have to prove themselves to earn their spot, and that's the pro side of this psl imo.

[Havsha]

Just now, DiDi said:

not to dismiss this idea as i know PSL is one of if not the best form of exposure, but a regular season is as long as your now standard tour. anyone can make it deep in a tour, but consistency is key. my point is, having a good season doesnt mean you're an all-star, and if you truly deserve to have your name recognized you'll show it outside of psl to work your way in 

Well, its very different to a tour, concidering the preparation, teamwork within psl teams, and level of skill your opposition will have in psl compared to a standard tour, and im not trying to suggest that your name is guaranteed to be instantly recognisable, but its hard to argue that psl doesn't have a large influence on this type of thing, especially considering how it brings people from different teams together

[DiDi]

Just now, Havsha said:

Well, its very different to a tour, concidering the preparation, teamwork within psl teams, and level of skill your opposition will have in psl compared to a standard tour

of course, which is why i said work your way in. im not against everyone deserves a shot or anything, but if you cant prove yourself in AAA dont expect to be called up to MLB 

[gbwead]

1 hour ago, DoubleJ said:

There was a large amount of criticism of the competitiveness of OU3 and NU2 last season, and thus I can agree that both could and should be excluded.

Don't flatter yourself. You have a lot of people kissing your ass, but no that much. Some of the biggest names of PokeMMO's competitive scene have fallen by default to OU3, so let's not bullshit here.

 

Furthermore, more often than not, the best PokeMMO players can play more than 1 tier. The UU2 and NU2 players of last season sometimes had to play UU2 or NU2 because there was not enough room in OU. If we didn't have UU2 or NU2 last season, we would have had a lot of competition in OU3. If we stick with 8 tiers, I would love to see LC, but if we can't have LC I would rather see OU3 than UU2 because that's where the competition is.

 

Edit: 

On 28/05/2017 at 1:41 AM, BurntZebra said:

As a reminder, here are the tiers you can sign up for:

 

PokeMMO OU

PokeMMO UU

PokeMMO NU

PokeMMO Doubles

Showdown DPP OU 

Showdown Gen 7 SM OU

PokeMMO LC (if you sign up for this, make sure you sign up for another tier as well)

This might not change anything, but it certainly doesn't help to have a rule where people can only sign up in LC if they commit to another tier.

 

Edit2:

Best tier distribution imo: 

Spoiler

OU1

OU2

OU3

UU

NU

Trashy Doubles

LC

DPP OU

SM OU

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by gbwead

[Havsha]

2 minutes ago, DiDi said:

of course, which is why i said work your way in. im not against everyone deserves a shot or anything, but if you cant prove yourself in AAA dont expect to be called up to MLB 

Again, im not arguing that a noob should be allowed to walk into psl, but nu 2 and even ou 3 is only going to help give more people who deserve a shot the opportunity. Yes, maybe ou 3 isnt as strong as an ou 1, but thats the way it should be

[LuisPocho]

47 minutes ago, Erayne said:

I get your point and agree that sometimes a strictly democratic way to handle things isn't the best way

fascist

[Kizhaz]

w/out going into too much detail I think personally I'd have preferred 10 tiers with 8 managers, or 8 tiers with 10 managers.

This whole talk about PSL being for the elite is something that has only recently popped up near the end of last season and I don't know why. I never saw PSL as this tournament for the well known players to flex and choke against each other, but rather a tournament that puts everyone in a new place, working with new people and seeing the hype of a player nobody has heard of getting wins over one of these 'elite' players was always the best part as it would lead to some good smack talk and not the petty arguments that we have now.

[Kamimiii]

5 hours ago, Murcielago said:

didn't they just do WC? lots of noobs played in that.

Is there actually someone in the game that cared about WC except the poor Orange ?

 

4 hours ago, Lazaro23 said:

It's not like managers will be getting only 8 players, I'd say 10 at least in case of a substitution.
So there will be at least 80 players instead of 64 which people have been saying, and players will have to prove themselves to earn their spot, and that's the pro side of this psl imo.

That's cool, but we might lack some fresh blood with only 4 dominant MMO tiers. 32 players, 40-48 including subs, there's no place for new names in that.

 

The pro side of the 8 tiers - OU1 OU2 UU1 NU1 - is having only the elite playing and never have to enforce activity wins.

 

However if you take your decision based on how much you fear activity wins, how much you fear having a non veteran player playing your week's clutch game, you're just cowards or someone that experienced a bad manager last season.

 

Literally the point giving new names a chance to show up more by giving either 9 or 10 tiers is to have players that are really commited to play and do everything they can to beat people, that's the total opposite of having to force activity wins, I guess I don't respect most of the old players that don't care about the game and play tournaments using the same teams over and over again without creating or testing new things, how can you call this the ELITE, they can and will get shit on by the new generation if you give it a chance, that's hype.

 

I think we need multiple OU, UU, NU, I think we need Dubs and DPP, maybe SuMo for the hype, maybe LC for the hype, thats 10 tiers, 8 to play seriously and 2 to have fun while not completly fucking team's record every week. We need a mix of hype and competitiveness, 8 tiers is not compatible, you either have to cut hype or cut competitiveness. I keep thinking we need a parity and thus 10 tiers, not talking about the fact it'll reward the best managers which is intensily hype.

[LifeStyle]

I see a lot of good names signing up for NU, honestly still don't know why NU2 would be a bad thing. Most of the people arguing that NU2 was trash last season are not even relevant in playing this tier. And I still stick by that having 2/8 tiers be Showdown tiers doesn't help making PSL exclusive to the best MMO players.