PSL Season 8 - How many tiers ?

[Kamimiii]

Just because I feel it's a big issue for this PSL. I understand the elite part involved in picking 8 tiers, however it is a big mistake in my opinion :

 

- This is b*tchy as f*ck, considering there are only 4 tiers playable for someone that gets into comp in PokeMMO (OU1, OU2, UU, NU), it leaves already the PSL with 32 MMO players, and most of the slots of these 4 tiers are gonna be filled with the draft and big comp players, not even talking about friends or manager's own team members. It leaves 5 slots or so for not-so-known or unknown players from MMO.

 

- So far, this great unofficial tournament is called PokeMMO Super League, and with a reason, we play the PokeMMO tiers with PokeMMO meta. Your idea of elite is in total opposition with the tiers choice here, I understand picking Doubles as it has been part of PokeMMO since a while, but everyone knows that sometimes you can't just work around RNG, and about LC, well, the tier is indeed really funny to play and watch, but it shouldn't take a UU or a NU spot. Not talking about SuMo, which obviously has no right to take away a MMO spot. If you want the hype, bring more matches, bring more competitive tiers so you can allow yourself to bring funny ones.

 

- People are WAITING for PSL8, it's the most important PokeMMO event of the semester, you shouldn't take it that easy, it's everyone's chance to show what they are capable of and yet you are restricting it to the most famous players. 2k players have proven multiple times being way better players than the 15k ones (hi @Kanzo bae).

 

- And hell having 10 tiers instead of 8 is just so much hype, it's a game and a game is meant to be played. Bring 10 players, witness comebacks, more strategy, more managering skills, more team effort, more Super to the Super League.

 

Bringing 2 more players for each team won't, in any world, lower skill level of this event, as everyone has really invested time and effort into the competitive scene during the last months.

 

 

 

Before you mention it :

 

Drafting order trades can be canceled and all the managers can start trading again, cause it might have an impact on how much the draft matters, if managers have 100k credits to buy 8-10 players and not 6-8 anymore (or 15 like Torin but lets not talk about that).

 

If you have any questions, arguments, just type it here clearly, and don't make it a total mess, let's have an organized talk for once, cause this event impacts the whole competitive community and we gotta take it serious.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Kamimiii

[DoubleJ]

Voted 8 because alpha players only. 

[Kamimiii]

Just now, DoubleJ said:

Voted 8 because alpha players only. 

More like because you abused the random draft system totally unfair considering 8 players format.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Kamimiii

[DoubleJ]

Just now, Kamimiii said:

More like because you abused the random draft system

 Think of it this way, at least 64 players will be selected to play. 

 

I can only see about 20 "famous" players, if even that. 

 

40+ no namers will be picked. And hey, the 8 tier system was a success before I showed up and made it 10. 2k players were still being bought and were still looking good. 

[pachima]

It´s a shame some "famous" ppl aren´t that good anymore.

Edit: 9 tiers is where this should go. Who need ties?

Edited May 30, 2017 by pachima

[gbwead]

When "elite" starts meaning "scared supposedly relevant trash", smh. This is a community event, it simply doesn't make sense to make it more exclusive.

[Kamimiii]

Just now, DoubleJ said:

 Think of it this way, at least 64 players will be selected to play. 

 

I can only see about 20 "famous" players, if even that. 

 

40+ no namers will be picked. And hey, the 8 tier system was a success before I showed up and made it 10. 2k players were still being bought and were still looking good. 

20 famous player ? Idk for you everyone must be unknown shit then. I hardly see any unknown player being picking for OU OU UU NU with all the amount of good MMO tiers players that have signed up.

 

I thought about the idea of going 9 tiers, felt a bit weird but why not after all, if either LC or SuMo dont have enough sign ups and we end up with 2x (OU UU NU), it'd be more than enough tiers indeed. But we do need this competitiveness.

[Laz]

Voted 8 so that my team doesn't have to rely on inexperienced players matches 

[Tranzmaster]

[NikhilR]

Just now, gbwead said:

When "elite" starts meaning "scared supposedly relevant trash", smh. This is a community event, it simply doesn't make sense to make it more exclusive.

Just because it's a community event doesn't mean that you cater to every single member of the community. Considering how we had so many free agents in the last season, it's like you can start voting for 12 tiers then. 

 

Just now, Lazaro23 said:

Voted 8 so that my team doesn't have to rely on inexperienced players matches 

 

11 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Voted 8 because alpha players only. 

^This. Making it 10 tiers or 12 tiers, means that you're reducing the importance of every other game because if one person fucks up, then it can be covered by another teammate. You're allowing room for someone to take their game lightly in hope of another teammate saving their ass week in and week out. It makes no sense to have a dedicated player's effort be offset by someone who doesn't share the same attitude. 

 

Also I'm legit curious as to who are these unknown players who solely rely on PSL to make their mark. There are plenty of officials, CC's so it's not like these unknown players have no platform to showcase their talent. If they're good then let them prove it. If they're interested, motivated and badly want to get into PSL, then let them PM whichever manager they want to play for and prove to them why they would be a solid buy. This is alone is enough to get bought. 

[Draekyn]

PSL season 8 - How many polls?

[DoubleJ]

2 minutes ago, Draekyn said:

PSL season 8 - How many polls?

Approximately 8. 

[LuisPocho]

38 minutes ago, Kamimiii said:

- And hell having 10 tiers instead of 8 is just so much hype, it's a game and a game is meant to be played. Bring 10 players, witness comebacks, more strategy, more managering skills, more team effort, more Super to the Super League.

imo 8 tiers means more pressure for players and almost everytime more pressure means more hype... with more players each individual match has less meaning in the final score (wich makes managering and strategy harder)

 

I would prefer it being more inclusive and I agreed there are many good players, and I kind feel that big teams have more fun... but in the last psl everybody wanted more hype and less afk wins

[OldKeith]

I think 8 is fine. There is an argument that managing 10 players showcases the manager's ability a bit better, but the quality of teams is really diluted on the other hand.

 

Are you unknown? Do well in some tournaments and you will get drafted for sure.

[BlackJovi]

Voted 8

 

 c u random shit scrubs 

[Aerun]

10

Because I wanna play

[gbwead]

34 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

Just because it's a community event doesn't mean that you cater to every single member of the community. Considering how we had so many free agents in the last season, it's like you can start voting for 12 tiers then. 

 

 

^This. Making it 10 tiers or 12 tiers, means that you're reducing the importance of every other game because if one person fucks up, then it can be covered by another teammate. You're allowing room for someone to take their game lightly in hope of another teammate saving their ass week in and week out. It makes no sense to have a dedicated player's effort be offset by someone who doesn't share the same attitude. 

 

Also I'm legit curious as to who are these unknown players who solely rely on PSL to make their mark. There are plenty of officials, CC's so it's not like these unknown players have no platform to showcase their talent. If they're good then let them prove it. If they're interested, motivated and badly want to get into PSL, then let them PM whichever manager they want to play for and prove to them why they would be a solid buy. This is alone is enough to get bought. 

I might be wrong, but I don't see anyone beside you sugggesting that we go to 12 tiers, so I don't see the point of hyperbolizing the 10 tiers relatively popular demand. We are not asking for 12, but 10. I get that last season was tough for certain teams in terms of player quality, but that was mainly because of questionnable decisions from some managers.

 

Tor had way too much players from the start and Eric bought way too many players at midseason. When that happens, when managers bid on players they don't need, everyone has to pay more for what they want and all managers have to make compromises they should not have to do.

 

Pipe, Tor and Eric also had more credited than they needed which also show that they didn't manage their credits well. They could have paid more to get a better player.

 

If we didn't have a broken draft system last season, Tor would have never been in a position to fuck himself and everyone else. If we had a credit system going into midseason that was balanced, we would not have had managers with inflated credits. If we had active managers or not dumb ones (sry not sry Eric) that paid attention to what was going on during midseason, we would not have had managers with excess credits and a need for better players.

 

We have more competitive players and more experienced competitive players than last year, there is no reason why we should prevent the newcomers from joining PSL just because we assume being better than them. No names don't get drafted. New names get drafted. There is a difference.

Edited May 30, 2017 by gbwead

[Kamimiii]

Just now, NikhilR said:

This. Making it 10 tiers or 12 tiers, means that you're reducing the importance of every other game because if one person fucks up, then it can be covered by another teammate. You're allowing room for someone to take their game lightly in hope of another teammate saving their ass week in and week out. It makes no sense to have a dedicated player's effort be offset by someone who doesn't share the same attitude. 

 

Also I'm legit curious as to who are these unknown players who solely rely on PSL to make their mark. There are plenty of officials, CC's so it's not like these unknown players have no platform to showcase their talent. If they're good then let them prove it. If they're interested, motivated and badly want to get into PSL, then let them PM whichever manager they want to play for and prove to them why they would be a solid buy. This is alone is enough to get bought. 

It's not even about increasing tiers amount, I'd have no prob if 2 UU 2 NU and 8 tiers. But like you say it so well, every other game has more importance if 8 tiers, but it also means RNG based tiers or uncompetitive are a non sense to PSL, you legit just admitted it.

 

If you're feel like people take their game lightly, you bench them, it's manager's role and it actually adds some required managering skills instead of picking players and putting them in their tiers. Your argument is also a bit dumb and going in my way, since with rng tiers you can either win or lose, and have to win 2 skill based tiers to make up for the rng ones, in which case it'd be great to have 2 more competitive tiers to rely on in order to have a deserved won/lost week.

 

If you really think people play the same in officials and CC as they would play in PSL you are legit saying none deserves PSL except 10 players in the game. I understand the fact they SHOULD in order to prove them but anyone in their correct state of mind would understand PSL =/= playing tourneys. Anyway I expect the players that have to prove theirselves to do it in private anyway if they rly do wanna get picked, still doesn't change the fact they'll sit on the bench if they're behind an Axoa, an enchanteur, an anyone tbh. They'll never get a chance to play. Are you really that scared managers can't find unknowns and work with them to make them better, that's also their job and why they got chosen base on experience you know.

 

I understand your apprehension but it's the manager's role to help the team with their motivation and their match ups, otherwise they're just useless.

 

Nothing you said really was a counter argument, you just helped me stating points I didn't clear out yet, so thank you I guess ?

[gbwead]

7 minutes ago, Kamimiii said:

RNG based tiers

You can say Doubles, it's okay.

[Kamimiii]

18 minutes ago, LuisPocho said:

imo 8 tiers means more pressure for players and almost everytime more pressure means more hype... with more players each individual match has less meaning in the final score (wich makes managering and strategy harder)

More pressure, but yet pressure doesn't win you RNG games, like are we really gonna let a fucking LC or Doubles decide the fate of a fucking week of presumed teambuilding and training. We all want relevant matches to be a thing, if managers aren't able to draft 1 more UU and 1 more NU in a huge pool of players then why the hell are they even picked ?

 

Managering and strategy in a 7 weeks season before playoffs should be an important part of the PSL indeed, I couldn't agree more.

 

 

[Torinnnnn]

28 minutes ago, Aerun said:

10

Because I wanna play

Basically

[Kamimiii]

2 minutes ago, Torinnnnn said:

Basically

Of course they wan't to play, what's wrong with that, you're making the biggest MMO event exclusive only to old MMO players, there's a real problem with that. There's a trumendous amount of new players that want blood and yet there are still people like you that destroyed last PSL's competitiveness arguing for PSL to be exclusive cause of a lack of competitiveness last season.

 

Just a total non sense man, the fuck ??

Edited May 30, 2017 by Kamimiii

[NikhilR]

8 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I might be wrong, but I don't see anyone beside you sugggesting that we go to 12 tiers, so I don't see the point of hyperbolizing the 10 tiers relatively popular demand. We are not asking for 12, but 10. I get that last season was tough for certain teams in terms of player quality, but that was mainly because of questionnable decisions from some managers.

 

Tor had way too much players from the start and Eric bought way too many players at midseason. When that happens, when managers bid on players they don't need, everyone has to pay more for what they want and all managers have to make compromises they should not have to do.

 

Pipe, Tor and Eric also had more credited than they needed which also show that they didn't manage their credits well. They could have paid more to get a better player.

 

If we didn't have a broken draft system last season, Tor would have never been in a position to fuck himself and everyone else. If we had a credit system going into midseason that was balanced, we would not have had managers with inflated credits. If we had active managers or not dumb ones (sry not sry Eric) that paid attention to what was going on during midseason, we would not have had managers with excess credits and a need for better players.

 

We have more competitive players and more experienced competitive players than last year, there is no reason why we should prevent the newcomers from joining PSL just because we assume being better than them. No names don't get drafted. New names get drafted. There is a difference.

I mean that you can argue for 12 tiers as well if the true purpose of PSL is to be a community event and reach out to every single member. I don't have much to say regarding the way the managers handled their credits. But I'm more interested in this bolded part. Why shouldn't an experienced player be considered better than someone who is new or hasn't made a name for himself? What's preventing this new player from showing himself to be more skillful than some of the experienced players?

 

6 minutes ago, Kamimiii said:

It's not even about increasing tiers amount, I'd have no prob if 2 UU 2 NU and 8 tiers. But like you say it so well, every other game has more importance if 8 tiers, but it also means RNG based tiers or uncompetitive are a non sense to PSL, you legit just admitted it.

This right here is just opinion and not even a fact lol. To even out the RNG in dubs, it's made bo3, also lol where did I admit that those are nonsense? I said what's nonsense is being FORCED to buy an inexperienced player just to fill a slot in the team and who will then just cancel out an important win earned by a dedicated player. How are those two even same?

 

8 minutes ago, Kamimiii said:

 

If you're feel like people take their game lightly, you bench them, it's manager's role and it actually adds some required managering skills instead of picking players and putting them in their tiers. Your argument is also a bit dumb and going in my way, since with rng tiers you can either win or lose, and have to win 2 skill based tiers to make up for the rng ones, in which case it'd be great to have 2 more competitive tiers to rely on in order to have a deserved won/lost week.

How the hell can a manger bench a player when they don't have credits to buy more players?!?!?!? If we have 8 tiers, a manger can buy 10 players (same like last season) and have 2 subs whereas if you compare last season's case where a manager has only 10 players, they don't have the luxury to then bench the uninterested player. Again please tell me what are these RNG based tiers. I could then argue that every pokemon tier is RNG based because of how some games can simply be won in terms of matchup. What are these new competitive tiers that would be added? 

 

12 minutes ago, Kamimiii said:

If you really think people play the same in officials and CC as they would play in PSL you are legit saying none deserves PSL except 10 players in the game. I understand the fact they SHOULD in order to prove them but anyone in their correct state of mind would understand PSL =/= playing tourneys. Anyway I expect the players that have to prove theirselves to do it in private anyway if they rly do wanna get picked, still doesn't change the fact they'll sit on the bench if they're behind an Axoa, an enchanteur, an anyone tbh. They'll never get a chance to play. Are you really that scared managers can't find unknowns and work with them to make them better, that's also their job and why they got chosen base on experience you know.

Give me names of five players who have had success in PSL but not done well in officials at all. What is the difference between playing in PSL and in an official? If anything, playing an official is some of the best practice you can get to become a better player. If the players have to sit on the bench behind Axoa or enchanteur, who are currently some of the best players in the game, then they better sit on the bench because they haven't done anything to consider themselves to be better than those two. No I'm not scared about managers finding unknowns to work with them and get better, I'm just scared about PSL matches being decided by chokes the most between the two.

 

17 minutes ago, Kamimiii said:

Nothing you said really was a counter argument, you just helped me stating points I didn't clear out yet, so thank you I guess ?

Lol okay. 

[LifeStyle]

I don't want 10 tiers, but I'd like NU2 to still be a thing :/

[DoubleJ]

Just now, LifeStyle said:

I don't want 10 tiers, but I'd like NU2 to still be a thing :/

OU, OU, UU, UU, NU, NU, Dubs, S/M OU

 

ez.