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FinnTheMember

Dolittle Competitive Team Building (For Beginners)

11 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

4c36027b61d740239658801ec16e41e1.png

Let's Do Little Team Building

 

Hello my friends ! I noticed many players having trouble with building competitive teams.

Especially beginners having this problem and their elections end up with copying winner teams.

Same stats, same moves, same combinations. Playing against mirror is fun?

I don't like that. So i always tried to play with different pokemons and my goal was to be able to use all pokemons in this game.

 

Before the beginning, i have to say, this is my personal team building method. I never won any official so, i can't say "its perfect" but this guide can help you to understand logic and maybe you can improve or develop these infos for yourself at future.

 

 

In my team building, there are 3 roles.

1)Guards

2-Walls

3-Strikers , i'll start to explain from number 3 to 1.

Spoiler

3-Strikers: You can call these; sweepers too. These pokes are fast or powerful. But they are mostly fragile.

 

They can sweep whole team if they have half health.

Their role is finish injured enemies. 

 

Example: Sychter, Electabuz, Aerodactyl are avaible options.

 

But we have an item which calls as "Swift Choice Band" which gives you +1 speed. So slow pokemons can make suprises at this role too.

Or "Salac Berry" shows same effect too at %25 hp or less.

 

Striker Types:

  • Slow but swift band user + powerful (Ex.: Heracross)
  • Fast and powerful (Ex.: Jolteon)
  • Fast , not powerful, but annoying (Ex.: Electrode)
  • Priority moves (ExtremeSpeed , Quick Attack, Mach Punch, Fake Out

 

 Annoying things are; Trick , DestinyBond , Disable, Torment and other similar moves.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

2-Walls: These pokes can handle any damage. They have high HP and defense or special defense.

 

They can heal or cure themselves and party members or can use status moves on opponent as toxic, thunder wave, glare, will-o-wisp, sleep powder etc.

Their role is stop opponent's Strikers.

 

Example: Chansey, Kecleon, Tangela, Dusclops are avaible options.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

1)Guards: These pokes are secondary walls. Their types must cover wall's weakness.

 

These pokes are not walls. They have high damage power and high def or spdef or health , but they mostly have low speed. Example: Exploud, Gardevoir, Gyarados etc..

They must have huge damage (or Choice band) or 

setup moves (Nasty Plot, SwordDance, DragonDance...)

 

Example, Wall Pelipper is weak against electric and rock. So donphan is good guard for it.

 

 

Formule of Creating a Balanced Team is= A1 + A2 + ( B1 or B2 ) + (C1 or C2 )

 

A- Strikers 

  1. Physical Striker
  2. Special Striker

B- Def Pokes 

  1. Special Damage-Def Guard + Physical Damage- Def Wall
  2. Physical Damage-Def Guard + Special Damage- Def Wall

C- Spdef Pokes 

  1. Special Damage-Spdef Guard + Physical Damage-Spdef Wall
  2. Physical Damage-Spdef Guard + Special Damage-Spdef Wall

 

Example with random pokes: Chimecho - Relicanth - Primeape - Exploud - Mantine - Mr.Mime

Spoiler

Chimecho: Def Guard -Special Damage (Calm Mind Setupper)

Relicanth: Def Wall- Physical Damage (Toxic User)

 

Exploud: Spdef Guard- Physical Damage (Choice Band User)

Mantine: Spdef Wall- Special Damage (Toxic User)

 

Primeape: Physical Sweeper (Life Ball)

Mr.Mime: Special Sweeper ( Swift Choice Band)

Spoiler

And i wanna say something about EVs.

Base Points and EVS:

While making calculations on my guards. I give 252 atk or 252 spatk to my CB pokes. and other 252 point need to go where? There are some pokes ; 

  • Like 50 hp- 100 spdef = Hp point lower than defensive stat. > I noticed this poke take minimum damage with 252 HP ev points.
  • Like 100 hp-80 def = Hp point bigger than defensive stat. > I noticed this poke take minimum damage with 252 Def ev points.

 

Another info;

All walls have ; 252 hp + 252 def or spdef ,

All guards have: 252 attack or spatk + 252 def or spdef & 252 hp, (Some setup guards can have same EVs with Walls)

All strikers have; 252 attack or spatk + 252 speed.

 

These ev distribution changes at some pokemons due to speed differences in tier.

Spoiler

About moveset and evs , you can ask other players opinions too. But don't accept everything "I have 252 speed on magneton, i have 252 speed on gardevoir" Why? You must ask this. If that person says "speed is good" or something similar to that. Dont ask his/her opinion again xD But if he/she says, for overspeed ..that.. pokemon. Its okay.

An example , heracross doesn't have to be with 252 speed and attack. You can have careful 252 hp, 252 spdef bulk up one too.

 

Still there are too many experienced and knowledged players and never seen semis. Why? Coz some of them, no idea about team building and also while choosing moveset "If i put giga drain, i'll counter swampert, if i put ice beam, i'll counter flygon" lol. You dont play with only 1 pokemon :) You have 6 pokes and they must cover each other's weakness.

 

LET'S PLAY

  1. Roles. In this game you can take special or physical type damages from your opponent. You can have 6 pokes in your party. 1 guard and 1 wall for taking Physical damages and 1 guard and 1 wall too for taking Special damages. and 1 physical Striker and 1 special Striker. So draw your team according to these roles.
  2. Different damages. If your Wall has physical damage type moves , it's guard must have special damage type moves. (Example , Pelipper Surf - Whiscash Earthquake).
  3. Start game with Guards. Your lead poke must be from guards. Why? Because guards can stay alive after taking damages and payback it with one hit knock down. I mean, they can make jobs of other roles.
  4. Mixed damager pokes, you can have a Raichu with Volt Tackle and Surf. If that raichu has 252 atk, count it as physical striker. OR u have chansey with seismic toss. You can count this as special and physical damage user. Both is okay while choosing pokemons role in this building.
  5. Dont use similar Guards. With this logic , you'll make a team with 2 guards, if one of them using Choice band, use different type guard at second like setup guard (ex.; Calm Mind User) Also don't use same type damage guards.
  6. Dont use same types. Example; having more than 1 grass pokemon that able to gives you disadvantage or luckily advantage against your opponent. If you don't know what your opponent have, thats broke balance. But still u can have same type pokes. You can find sites for checking your team's weakness.  Well u can still use same type pokes if u need. But i suggest at least dont create combinations with 3 pokes which are weak against same type. Example: 3 fire pokemons in same team.
  7. Knowledge of Meta Game. After creating a party with 6 pokes, i have a list of popular (meta) pokes that using in tier. Im thinking them against my team. And i guess this is calling "Image Training" Im thinking, what i can do against those pokes with my team etc. Well , you can check "Competition Alley" topic at forum for that.
  8. Scouting. At official tournaments, your opponents able to watch you and thats makes disadvantage on you. Having more than 2-3 different combinations can help you. Having scout friends can help you too against suprise/ unexpected moves.

 

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This guide created for try to help new players and give them a simple team building logic which they can remind easily.

Also i believe they can have more courage to use unexpected pokemons and moves.

Thats all. You'll not feel bad if you lose too. Because you can analysis yourself after game. Like "Ahhh looks like my pelipper was not perfect choice for wall role with this guard etc" , so without being mad or asking yourself "why i am losing" , you'll run to next battle to try another combination. Game is fun with this method. 

I hope this can help you :)

 

I hope my english is good enough for you. Thanks for reading.

 

Edited by FinnTheMember

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Shout out for a well written guide. It's nice to see people give insights of their thought process of team building. There's a few points I want to give my insights about, nothing what I'm gonna say is written with "you're wrong, I'm right" type of way. This is just to give my perspective of things. I didn't expect you to misunderstand my response but there might be always that one idiot who will and the whole thread gets derailed.
 

Spoiler

 

On 18.5.2017 at 8:51 PM, FinnTheMember said:

 

Especially beginners having this problem and their elections end up with copying winner teams.

Same stats, same moves, same combinations. Playing against mirror is fun?

I don't like that. So i always tried to play with different pokemons and my goal was to be able to use all pokemons in this game.

 

Copying someone's team is mostly bad because most often you don't understand the thought process of each Pokemon selection to someone's team. As important as what your team is to have some kind of a reasoning why this specific Pokemon is used for. So not only is copying "not fun", it's usually very detrimental to your actual performance. Always having your own line of reasoning for what you want to do and what Pokemon and moveset one wants to use is needed.

 

On 18.5.2017 at 8:51 PM, FinnTheMember said:

 

Roles. In this game you can take special or physical type damages from your opponent. You can have 6 pokes in your party. 1 guard and 1 wall for taking Physical damages and 1 guard and 1 wall too for taking Special damages. and 1 physical Striker and 1 special Striker. So draw your team according to these roles.

 

The problem with the "roles" are that they're so arbitrary that they're almost practically non-existent. I like the fact you brought up a bit different definition of roles, compared to usual "walls, tanks, sweepers" or just "walls/sweepers" by describing each category. Regardless, it's hard to define all of those.

 

I like to use Bold Calm Mind Xatu as an example. It's a very powerful Calm Mind user that may just sweep unprepared teams. However, whenever I decide to use Xatu my reason to use the Pokemon are more defensive related than offensive related. It counters Scizor, it counters Hitmonlee, it can still break through certain walls and so forth. So in my mind when I bring this said Calm Mind sweeper, it's not that I bring it to be a specific role Pokemon. Another example of something similar can be for example Impish Swords Dance Scizor. It's used most as for defensive purposes but it may just sweep a team.

 

Beyond that, people often disagree the roles of more simple type of Pokemon. What to one is a "guard" can be a striker to another and what to one is a guard may be a wall to another. Regardless, getting too deep about this is unnecessary since I'm aware that these roles often just describe a Pokemon. Not define it. However, I would not use the roles as emphasis of a competitive guide.

 

On 18.5.2017 at 8:51 PM, FinnTheMember said:

Different damages. If your Wall has physical damage type moves , it's guard must have special damage type moves. (Example , Pelipper Surf - Whiscash Earthquake).

 

This one I disagree the most with. It makes really no practical value to have this, especially as a defensive Pokemon. What comes to offensive Pokemon I agree to some extent that it's nice that some of the offensive Pokemon hit physical damage and some of them hit special damage, therefor being able to sweep different kinds of Pokemon (in theory!). What comes to defensive Pokemon, the point of defensive Pokemon is literally to prevent opposing offensive Pokemon from tearing your team a new hole. What you should run in a defensive Pokemon bases only and entirely to what offensive Pokemon are you trying to counter and what Pokemon do you expect to switch in against you when you switch-in said guard or wall.

 

On 18.5.2017 at 8:51 PM, FinnTheMember said:

 

Start game with Guards. Your lead poke must be from guards. Why? Because guards can stay alive after taking damages and payback it with one hit knock down. I mean, they can make jobs of other roles.

 

Sweepers, or in your terminology "strikers" aren't necessarily bad leads either. If your striker can one-hit-KO bunch of different opponents then that makes it quite possibly one of the best possible leads. In my opinion, the best leads are ones that are hard to counter while are very likely to have a favorable match ups turn 1. Quite often this can be something that you would call a "guard" but good leads aren't always just guards.

 

In addition, many people lead with Spikes. And if it's a Spiker that is hard to counterlead, that Spikeslead might be the best possible option of the metagame. Lots of variables matter in terms of choosing the best lead. Putting it this simply may confuse people.

 

On 18.5.2017 at 8:51 PM, FinnTheMember said:

 

Dont use similar Guards. With this logic , you'll make a team with 2 guards, if one of them using Choice band, use different type guard at second like setup guard (ex.; Calm Mind User) Also don't use same type damage guards.

 

While it is often true that it's not beneficial to use two same types of "guards" because they usually get countered by the same Pokemon, I wouldn't still advise people to absolutely not do this. At one point I literally ran 3 Choice Band Pokemon in the same team because I felt as they worked the best in that current metagame and I still think that.

 

Again, depends what you're trying to do more than just having diversity. But I don't entirely disagree with this.

 

On 18.5.2017 at 8:51 PM, FinnTheMember said:

 

Dont use same types. Example; having more than 1 grass pokemon that able to gives you disadvantage or luckily advantage against your opponent. If you don't know what your opponent have, thats broke balance. But still u can have same type pokes. You can find sites for checking your team's weakness.  Well u can still use same type pokes if u need. But i suggest at least dont create combinations with 3 pokes which are weak against same type. Example: 3 fire pokemons in same team.

Knowledge of Meta Game. After creating a party with 6 pokes, i have a list of popular (meta) pokes that using in tier. Im thinking them against my team. And i guess this is calling "Image Training" Im thinking, what i can do against those pokes with my team etc. Well , you can check "Competition Alley" topic at forum for that.

 

Entirely true. By far, the most important piece of advice in the guide.

 

 

 

Edited by OrangeManiac

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idk, I don't think it's problematic to focus your team around an specific type when you know how to cover their weakness, like having for example 3 fire pokes and 3 covers for them. I think it's even easier to build like this because it's easier to cover an specific type weakness. 

Some types are easier to counter than others tho...

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7 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

This one I disagree the most with. It makes really no practical value to have this, especially as a defensive Pokemon. What comes to offensive Pokemon I agree to some extent that it's nice that some of the offensive Pokemon hit physical damage and some of them hit special damage, therefor being able to sweep different kinds of Pokemon (in theory!). What comes to defensive Pokemon, the point of defensive Pokemon is literally to prevent opposing offensive Pokemon from tearing your team a new hole. What you should run in a defensive Pokemon bases only and entirely to what offensive Pokemon are you trying to counter and what Pokemon do you expect to switch in against you when you switch-in said guard or wall.

Hello Orange. Well you can be right. Hmmm how i can explain what i think.. Example, (in a scenario with this guide) you have def guard with physical damage, your guard having trouble against a def wall with physical damage, and if u stay against it, your damage will be useless. And if your wall is phy damage user too, there is nothing you can change. Okay nevermind. I don't know to explain myself :S

 

7 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

Sweepers, or in your terminology "strikers" aren't necessarily bad leads either. If your striker can one-hit-KO bunch of different opponents then that makes it quite possibly one of the best possible leads. In my opinion, the best leads are ones that are hard to counter while are very likely to have a favorable match ups turn 1. Quite often this can be something that you would call a "guard" but good leads aren't always just guards.

 

In addition, many people lead with Spikes. And if it's a Spiker that is hard to counterlead, that Spikeslead might be the best possible option of the metagame. Lots of variables matter in terms of choosing the best lead. Putting it this simply may confuse people.

Yeah lead strikers very popular as spikers. But yeah my guide for making everything simple for beginners x) Thats why i said maybe they can develop this later. But choosing a guard type pokemon as a lead which counters tier's spikers and popular striker leads will be successfull.

 

7 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

While it is often true that it's not beneficial to use two same types of "guards" because they usually get countered by the same Pokemon, I wouldn't still advise people to absolutely not do this. At one point I literally ran 3 Choice Band Pokemon in the same team because I felt as they worked the best in that current metagame and I still think that.

 

Again, depends what you're trying to do more than just having diversity. But I don't entirely disagree with this.

Yeah having 2 Choice band guards and 1 swift, 1 setup striker works too. But mine is just a suggestion. They can change it due to tier they played.

 

7 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

Shout out for a well written guide.

Thanks x) Yeah as u said , there can be some points which open to discussion. But this guide is just for beginners. Giving too many infos can make them confuse too. Weather teams, defensive teams, offensive teams etc.. So i tried to make it simple and giving them only 1 way while creating combinations which helps to player to choose easily their pokemons before battles.

 

7 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

I think it's even easier to build like this because it's easier to cover an specific type weakne

Oh yeah team building starts like this. But when u tried to cover weakness, there will be 5-6 walls teams. Coz there are too many different types and you can't cover all of them. Example: Pelipper has Rock and Electric weakness. And Donphan covers these. But Kabutops can use Rock and Water moves which can be super effective to both of them. So when u start to think all covers, teams become everywhere wall.

 

Actually fun is start there. You can't cover all weakness. This game about luck. And waiting to see your opponent's lead , isn't that moment exciting ?! Thats why we love pokemon. Too many pokemons, too many options, too many weird posibilities which we can meet. Well there can be some people who doesn't accept RNG factor. But when u started to battle, the lead pokemons give someone an advantage. Even this is a luck factor , counter possibility of your first pokemon.

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On 5/18/2017 at 1:51 PM, FinnTheMember said:

Example with random pokes: Chimecho - Pelipper - Primeape - Exploud - Mantine - Mr.Mime

Chimecho: Def Guard -Special Damage (Calm Mind Setupper)

Relicanth: Def Wall- Physical Damage (Toxic User)

 

Exploud: Spdef Guard- Physical Damage (Choice Band User)

Mantine: Spdef Wall- Special Damage (Toxic User)

 

Primeape: Physical Sweeper (Life Ball)

Mr.Mime: Special Sweeper ( Swift Choice Band)

u jouk me?

FinnTheMember likes this

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Still don't understand anything, I suck at PvP.

Anyways, hey, when're you going online? I need someone to invite me to the new team.

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Just now, trojanxp said:

Still don't understand anything, I suck at PvP.

Anyways, hey, when're you going online? I need someone to invite me to the new team.

No worries. I'll give you a quick summary: PVP = All about luck and you must hit for win. So just be sure that you showed your best punch to your opponent. You'll be satisfied xD

I'll be online in a minute.

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