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New to comp; need help on a team built around CB heracross


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As the title says, I'm new to competitive battling and am almost done training a speed natured 5x31 heracross. I was wanting to make him the center of a team and put a choice band on him. I will list the team, along with possible move sets and a brief description of the role I was thinking of for them, below. Any suggestions or help will be appreciated. The team is:

 

The idea with this Metagross is to be a speedy attacker/somewhat defensive wall. Agility to speed him up and then earthquake for everything and meteor mash for everything else with explosion as a way to take out the opponent with him if he is goin down anyways or to clear out a really sturdy wall maybe.

 

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 96 Spe
IVs: 25+ HP / 31 Atk / 25+ Def / 0 SpA / 20+ SpD / 31 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Agility

 

The idea here is for a special sweeper. Let me know if I should take off choice specs and replace it with something else. I chose Starmie for its extensive movepool and psychic/water stab also the high speed and special attack makes it a good option for a special sweeper.

 

Starmie @ Choice Specs

Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 252 SpA / 0 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 25+ HP / 0 Atk / 25+ Def / 31 SpA / 25+ SpD / 31 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Psychic

 

My thoughts for blaziken was to be a mixed sweeper for walls like skarmory and Chansey. Taking advantage of STAB special moves like flamethrower for defensive walls like skarmory and forretress and then physical STAB moves like super power and fire punch for walls like Chansey. I'm hoping some opponents will neglect the possibility of a mixed sweeper and send out Chansey/skarmory accordingly. If it works that way that'd be fun. I was also hoping for him to be a little quicker than most walls as seen in the EVs and IVs. 

 

Blaziken (M) @ leftovers( not sure on this)
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 0 HP / 156 Atk / 0 Def / 252 SpA / 0 SpD / 100 Spe
IVs: 25+ HP / 31 Atk / 25+ Def / 31 SpA / 25+ SpD / 31 Spe
Rash Nature
- Thunder Punch(not sure on this one?)
- super Power
- Fire Punch
- Flamethrower

 

Don't think Chansey needs much of an explanation. Special wall with enough def to maybe take a physical hit from a non physical sweeper. If I need to I will put 0 in def and fill up hp to 252. 

 

Chansey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 148 HP / 0 Atk / 108 Def / 0 SpA / 252 SpD / 0 Spe
IVs: 31 HP / 1 Atk / 31 Def / 1 SpA / 31 SpD / 1 Spe
Calm Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

 

Another wall here, this time leaning more towards defensive but enough spd to take a hit or 2. Not sure if I need toxic and W-O-W. I was thinking W-O-W and confuse ray. Since he will be a defensive wall the will o wisp will lower the opponents attack. With pain split that will come in handy and seismic toss is just for some damage. I can maybe do rest instead of confuse ray(?) or maybe not if that's what pain split is there for. 

 

Dusclops (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 0 Atk / 252 Def / 0 SpA / 4 SpD / 0 Spe
IVs: 31 HP / 0 Atk / 31 Def / 0 SpA / 31 SpD / 25 Spe
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic/rest/confuse ray
- Pain Split
- Seismic Toss

 

Finally, the centerpiece. I was hoping for a strong physical sweeper here. Once I get rid of all the big threats I can send him out and finish the others. 

 

Heracross (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 1 Def / 0 SpA / 1 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 0 SpA / 31 SpD / 31 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brick break or super power not sure. Since he is choice banded I may have to switch him out anyways.
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Rock Slide

 

Again, any help is appreciated! If this doesn't go here I'll be glad to take it down. Thankyou for contributing. 

Edited by NoobAtLife
Some formatting for easier reading
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23 minutes ago, NoobAtLife said:

Blaziken (M) @ leftovers( not sure on this)
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 0 HP / 156 Atk / 0 Def / 252 SpA / 0 SpD / 100 Spe
IVs: 25+ HP / 31 Atk / 25+ Def / 31 SpA / 25+ SpD / 31 Spe
Rash Nature
- Thunder Punch(not sure on this one?)
- super Power
- Fire Punch
- Flamethrower

Blaziken does not have access to speed boost yet. A mixed set with hasty/naive will work if you max out speed. You can also use agility at the cost of fire phys stab.

For Metagross, drop explosion for thunderpunch. On Dusclops, you may want to consider shadow ball over toxic/rest/confuse ray, so you can hit haunter and better check psychic types.

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39 minutes ago, notmudkip0 said:

Blaziken does not have access to speed boost yet. A mixed set with hasty/naive will work if you max out speed. You can also use agility at the cost of fire phys stab.

 

Thanks! I didn't know that. And would you suggest the -def or -spd for nature? Could I switch thunderpunch for agility instead of fire punch? 

 

44 minutes ago, notmudkip0 said:

 On Dusclops, you may want to consider shadow ball over toxic/rest/confuse ray, so you can hit haunter and better check psychic types.

 

would shadow ball still be viable with the untouched Spa of dusclops? it wouldnt be too powerful but it does seem like a better option than those other 3 moves. 

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1 hour ago, NoobAtLife said:

Thanks! I didn't know that. And would you suggest the -def or -spd for nature? Could I switch thunderpunch for agility instead of fire punch? 

 

Thunderpunch is nice to have for Gyarados/Milotic, it's probably something you want to keep. Either nature works for Blaziken.

 

1 hour ago, NoobAtLife said:

would shadow ball still be viable with the untouched Spa of dusclops? it wouldnt be too powerful but it does seem like a better option than those other 3 moves. 

STAB boosts helps make up for less investment and you should be able to 2HKO psychics.

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metagross- explosion is nerfed on this game so you are better off running thunderpunch instead if not you are hard walled by all of the bulk waters

 

starmie- in our meta starmie is usually a bulky spinner and not a special sweeper. it can still be used like that however, things to be considered would be using trick in place of icebeam although its not necessary but it could give you some more utility to maybe cripple an important wall. If your looking for a more powerful special sweeper consider alakazam or jolteon. 

 

blaziken- we dont get speedboost on this game and when we do im sure blaziken will be banned to ubers, a mixed set generally uses hpgrass/superpower/tpunch/overheat with a hasty/naive nature and max speed invest.

 

chansey- the moveset is fine but you generally want bold nature and 252 def evs to not die to pursuit and other weaker physical attacks.

 

dusclops- rest is probably better then painsplit but both are viable and i wouldn't recommend using confuse ray at all. 

 

heracross- low kick is its best fighting move and you can consider replacing earthquake with pursuit, if you are debating if you prefer earthquake or rockslide i would recommend rockslide because it will provide better overall coverage. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The biggest counters to a Heracross are Arcanine, Weezing and Skarmory.

 

It's really hard to think a Pokemon which can reliably take down an Arcanine, since Arcanine is kind of a pivot switch Pokemon to get the Intimidate off and to wall opposing physical attacker. So bringing counters for just Arcanine doesn't work because Arcanine will just switch out. Also the main Pokemon that actually counter Arca are countered by Chansey. So in attempts to counter Arca + Chansey core, well you're kinda fucked. What you can do, however (which you already listed) is running Earthquake to try to take down Arcanine with your own Heracross. To make your life easier, running your own Pokemon with Spikes will definitely help to wear down the Arcanine without having to predict correctly necessarily every single time. 

 

Weezing is a bit problematic case. As a Heracross you could try to bait a burn and Facade Weezing to oblivion, however better players are very careful with W-o-W. Metagross is one of the best Weezing + Chansey core destroyer, second being Blaziken. I recommend Blazer to be either a Swords Dance set to troll Arcanine and Milotic extra hard or fast mixed. Both of these Pokemon are mentioned in your team, maybe not with ideal sets for this metagame though.

 

For Skarm you either need a super high power offense or a Spinner or optionally - a Magneton.

 

These are the biggest banes of Heracross so your teambuild should focus on dealing with them so Hera can truly shine. Your team looks overall alright. Oh and put Trick on Starmie. You'll know soon why.

 

Edited by OrangeManiac
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Listen to @Evlgoon he (is one of) the best player(s) in the game.

 

That starmie you listed is going to be expensive to buy/make and its going to underperform like crazy in the current meta.  find yourself a cheap 5x28+ bold/timid/modest starmie and ev it to be a bulky spinner...

 

If your going to get blaze... hastey>Naive

 

Dusclops as a stand alone wall is going to get broken very quickly.  I would like to see you squeeze a milotic/skarmory/forretress into your team some how... at first glance it seems that replacing that starmie with a forretress might be a good play.  Another option would be to replace dusclops all together.  Dusclops is used as a spin blocker, you don't even have spikes so he is kind of useless on your team, perhaps replace him with weezing.

 

lots of good advice here so you should be able to apply it and figure it out.  GL Noob

Edited by Murcielago
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17 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

The biggest counters to a Heracross are Arcanine, Weezing and Skarmory.

 

It's really hard to think a Pokemon which can reliably take down an Arcanine, since Arcanine is kind of a pivot switch Pokemon to get the Intimidate off and to wall opposing physical attacker. So bringing counters for just Arcanine doesn't work because Arcanine will just switch out. Also the main Pokemon that actually counter Arca are countered by Chansey. So in attempts to counter Arca + Chansey core, well you're kinda fucked. What you can do, however (which you already listed) is running Earthquake to try to take down Arcanine with your own Heracross. To make your life easier, running your own Pokemon with Spikes will definitely help to wear down the Arcanine without having to predict correctly necessarily every single time. 

 

Weezing is a bit problematic case. As a Heracross you could try to bait a burn and Facade Weezing to oblivion, however better players are very careful with W-o-W. Metagross is one of the best Weezing + Chansey core destroyer, second being Blaziken. I recommend Blazer to be either a Swords Dance set to troll Arcanine and Milotic extra hard or fast mixed. Both of these Pokemon are mentioned in your team, maybe not with ideal sets for this metagame though.

 

For Skarm you either need a super high power offense or a Spinner or optionally - a Magneton.

 

These are the biggest banes of Heracross so your teambuild should focus on dealing with them so Hera can truly shine. Your team looks overall alright. Oh and put Trick on Starmie. You'll know soon why.

 

 

sd + eq hera does the trick against arca.

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On 4/24/2017 at 0:14 AM, Evlgoon said:

starmie- in our meta starmie is usually a bulky spinner and not a special sweeper. 

 

chansey- the moveset is fine but you generally want bold nature and 252 def evs to not die to pursuit and other weaker physical attacks.

 

heracross- low kick is its best fighting move

Thanks for the feedback! And I have a few questions. Should I just switch starmie for  different special sweeper? I was thinking something with water for the fire type threats. For Chansey, with a base stat of 5(I believe) defense in Chansey, would a bold nature only be +10% of the 5? Or would it be 10% of the sum of base stat and the EVs? Would a +spd nature not take better advantage of the already high spd? And on the low kick for heracross what would it's power be like compared to a move like brick break?

Edited by NoobAtLife
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On 4/24/2017 at 1:16 AM, OrangeManiac said:

The biggest counters to a Heracross are Arcanine, Weezing and Skarmory.

Could a starmie not take these out fairly easily? Psychic for weezing, surf for arcanine, and thunderbolt for skarmory? And maybe switch ice beam for rapid spin? Also what makes trick so good for it to be suggested twice? Is it just to get the opponent to hold an item that hurts it in some way?

 

On 4/24/2017 at 1:16 AM, OrangeManiac said:

I recommend Blazer to be either a Swords Dance set to troll Arcanine and Milotic extra hard or fast mixed. 

For swords dance, how does one set that up without being countered on the next turn? For milotic were you meaning blaziken would outspeed the milotic and could use thunderpunch? And thanks for taking the time to help!

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To be precise the 10% is calculated from the stat the Pokemon will reach in certain level. The formula for base stat calculation at lv 50 is 20 + your base stat of the Pokemon (for everything but HP) when you have 31 IV. For example, 31 IV 80 base stat has 100 stat at lv 50 while 5 base stat has 25 stat at lv 50. The 10% increases this stat. Now you have a legit question whether the Chansey def buff is insignificant, which mathematically it is but no one is trying to attack you on anything else but physically. Therefor the nature would be 99% of the time as a waste buffing anything else but the defense. Also Starmie is bulky mainly for two reason in this metagame: Harder to Pursuit trap and overall longevity to spin out Spikes.

 

5 minutes ago, NoobAtLife said:

Could a starmie not take these out fairly easily? Psychic for weezing, surf for arcanine, and thunderbolt for skarmory? And maybe switch ice beam for rapid spin? Also what makes trick so good for it to be suggested twice? Is it just to get the opponent to hold an item that hurts it in some way?

 

No one is going to stay with their Weezing/Arca/Skarm against your Starmie. They just counter you to oblivion with Ludicolo/Chansey/P2. Trick is nice to cripple these Pokemon by giving them an unwanted item.

 

5 minutes ago, NoobAtLife said:

For swords dance, how does one set that up without being countered on the next turn? For milotic were you meaning blaziken would outspeed the milotic and could use thunderpunch? And thanks for taking the time to help!

You set up vs. a Pokemon you don't expect to stay on you. If you're vs Venusaur/Chansey/Skarm etc. your opponent will most likely switch to Arcanine/Milotic. During the switch turn you set up SD and are able to deal with these Pokemon now.

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19 hours ago, Murcielago said:

   find yourself a cheap 5x28+ bold/timid/modest starmie and ev it to be a bulky spinner...

First, thanks for the reply. Can you give me an example of what a bulky spinner moveset and evs would look like? I'm assuming rapid spin(obviously) and evs in hp and def/spd.

And you mentioned replacing dusclops. Just wondering but what can break him so easily? And something like weezing support heracross good? 

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6 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

 Now you have a legit question whether the Chansey def buff is insignificant, which mathematically it is but no one is trying to attack you on anything else but physically. Therefor the nature would be 99% of the time as a waste buffing anything else but the defense. Also Starmie is bulky mainly for two reason in this metagame: Harder to Pursuit trap and overall longevity to spin out Spikes.

 

 

No one is going to stay with their Weezing/Arca/Skarm against your Starmie. They just counter you to oblivion with Ludicolo/Chansey/P2. Trick is nice to cripple these Pokemon by giving them an unwanted item.

Thanks I think I understand the natures more now. And would you suggest switching starmie for a different special sweeper like something like espeon or alakazam like evlgoon suggested? Or maybe megneton or weezing? And I have a better understanding of swords dance and setting up too now.

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4 minutes ago, NoobAtLife said:

Thanks I think I understand the natures more now. And would you suggest switching starmie for a different special sweeper like something like espeon or alakazam like evlgoon suggested? Or maybe megneton or weezing? And I have a better understanding of swords dance and setting up too now.

Skarmory isn't even the most common Hera counter anymore so not sure about the necessity of Mag. Also Shed Hull ggs it.

 

If you want a Trick set, Alakazam could possibly be even better than Starmie. However, way more predictable. If you're gonna have Chansey and Dusclops I recommend having a spinner in your team. Now, to support Heracross I think Forretress is even better than Starmie because it can Rapid Spin and use Spikes of its own.

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Hola

 

Not sure if suggested already but I would recommend running wish/protect over softboil/aroma on chansey. I don't see aroma giving you much advantage when you have 2 natural cure users, potentially a rest dusclops and a guts heracross. Wish passing can also be nice if you end up running life orb on blaziken or metagross.

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What Pokemon do u already have?

 

 

perhaphs I just give u a tried and true team from my 35 page excel sheet that has all of OU ranked scouted along with prevalent players favorite tournament teams.  That way u can start out with a tried and true team that has 100(0)s of wins.

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5 hours ago, Murcielago said:

What Pokemon do u already have?

 

 

perhaphs I just give u a tried and true team from my 35 page excel sheet that has all of OU ranked scouted along with prevalent players favorite tournament teams.  That way u can start out with a tried and true team that has 100(0)s of wins.

I currently just have 5x31 heracross with jolly nature and pursuit but not ev trained yet and no other comp  moves.

Edited by NoobAtLife
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12 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

 If you're gonna have Chansey and Dusclops I recommend having a spinner in your team. Now, to support Heracross I think Forretress is even better than Starmie because it can Rapid Spin and use Spikes of its own.

I've thought of doing forretress before so I guess I could replace starmie with forretress and then maybe dusclops for a water tank?

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10 hours ago, DaftCoolio said:

Hola

 

Not sure if suggested already but I would recommend running wish/protect over softboil/aroma on chansey. I don't see aroma giving you much advantage when you have 2 natural cure users, potentially a rest dusclops and a guts heracross. Wish passing can also be nice if you end up running life orb on blaziken or metagross.

Haven't thought of this yet. But what would protect be used for? Like in what circumstances?

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8 minutes ago, NoobAtLife said:

I've thought of doing forretress before so I guess I could replace starmie with forretress and then maybe dusclops for a water tank?

That would be a very good option. Best water tanks are Milotic, Ludicolo, Slowbro and perhaps a defensive Gyarados.

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1 hour ago, NoobAtLife said:

I currently just have 5x31 heracross with jolly nature and pursuit but not ev trained yet and no other comp  moves.

perfect, I know a top 10 ou player who uses a team built specifically around that exact heracross.  I will pm it to u.

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1 hour ago, OrangeManiac said:

That would be a very good option. Best water tanks are Milotic, Ludicolo, Slowbro and perhaps a defensive Gyarados.

The defensive gyarodos sounds the best to me. I'd assume he'd still be able to hit fairly hard too? What about swampert?

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