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11 minutes ago, Ichigo said:

It's a huge gateway for rmt. You guys think it's normal for some nab to list rares for 10k??? These days players go on social websites and communicate with each other and then agree over a deal without saying a single sentence in game to each other. Then when this player gets all 3 rares for 30k he he is considered being ''LUCKY''. Also staff don't really do effort to pick up such things.

i doubt that it works that way. its way too risky that somebody can buy the cheap rare before the person who is intented to buy it managed to click the buy button. besides that rmt always has been a problem, not only since GTL was introduced.

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16 minutes ago, Ichigo said:

Do I look inactive?? U want me to bump the fck out of my threads bruh? I think you guys don't realize that it takes time for trading and sales. Some of our threads are to advertise our pokemon that are listed on the GTL. Each time the player view my shop he thinks about what he can buy or negotiate with me in game about a certain item / pokemon he likes. I don't think a player would go to the trash section to check my shop.

 

11 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

As a staff member who actually plays this game, I'm aware it takes time. Leaving this rule out will not magically make trading quicker. Mine threads were trashed also, and I don't see any hard task in going to forums once a week to bump mine trade corner thread. 

 

Also I'm here to clarify some misunderstood rules as in few posts above, not to argue. 

A little I would like to add here, if your thread does end up getting trashed you can always ask a staff member to put it back in the Trade Corner. It is your own responsibility that you keep your thread in Trade Corner. So if you accidentally forgot to bump your thread or for whatever reason you can always ask a staff member to put it back there.

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its not like we want GTL gone, it's a nice feature. but there's no reason a better trading community and GTL can't coexist.

same with automated vs silph tourneys.

 

lucky eggs might have been the worst currency ever, but back then you could buy a staryu for 8 eggs, an onix and 3 earthquakes and it was awesome.

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GTL along with automated match making are some of the best modifications made to this game.

 

I was unaware that trade chat is now divided up among the channels, that was certainly a mistake, but should be easy to fix.

 

 

IMO trade forum is only for tire kickers and low ballers, and of course "only sell for overpay" it doesn't seem to be for serious business,

 

 

Sorry to hear Aereon got a warning point, he has always been a good friend and only has had the most supportive things to say to me :)

 

*edit: It is also kind of cool that the mods clean our trash up for us... all those trade threads i made with no response and only low balls deleted without any effort on my part :) :)

Edited by Murcielago
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I have done shiny trading successfully for a fair while, but stopped around 4-6 months ago. Here are my thoughts on shinies and trading in general. Please bear in mind I am speaking in the view of a shiny trader, not a comp player.

 

Introduction

People have been complaining that the comp players have been neglected, but I feel that the shiny traders are the real audience being forgotten here. We are the main source when it comes to trading (exception are occasional comps / breeders / grind items). Comp players have automated tourneys, a new mechanic coming, new items (life orb, etc) and shiny prizes.

 

What do us shiny traders have? We can't discuss shiny values which unsettles the market, trade chat is dead, GTL shinies are overpriced due to breeding (will explain later) and cheap ones get sniped by no-lifers constantly refreshing the page, shiny breeding is useless (explain why later) and shiny lotteries get tiresome.

 

Value Discussion

Although controversial to some, it gave shiny traders like myself some purpose to help out the community to avoid getting 'ripped off' by shinies. People have said that us shiny traders use it to manipulate the market and profit, but many people have asked  @Alphamale @JoshLindsay10 @FlareBlitzz @SneaKyKhaLidA about prices of shinies in the past because they were looked up to, and that is how they got their name just like  @DoubleJ etc got theirs being a comp player.

 

People asked for values because they were unsure of the market. Imagine the first shiny sudowoodo gets caught. Nobody will know the price, so they will either sell very cheap or very expensive. This is where value discussion came to its biggest advantage. Also, it stabled the shiny market and would've made a huge benefit to shinies which had prices crash significantly, such as Growlithe @Parke ;)

 

Personally, for this reason the value discussion should be bought back to reintroduce more purpose for shiny traders, encourage more activity in the forums and to stabilize the shiny market. (as more rare shinies have been appearing lately) It will also inform the community at once about changes in the market, instead of individuals who can manipulate prices. Nobody is even forced to view / contribute to the value discussion, so there is no need to complain about it.

 

Forum: Trade Corner

As the OP previously stated, it takes 3-5 days for a page to be bought onto page 2, where it used to only take 24 hours. There are never anymore shiny threads anymore as most people use GTL, however you can't hold negotiations / future trades with that person as it does not mention the seller on GTL. Encouraging more activity on the trade corner such as convincing more shiny threads to be opened would encourage more open communication between users as well as more knowledge on general shiny prices.

 

Chat: Trade Corner

I remember hanging around Vermilion City CH1 and checking the trade chat to see if there were any interesting shinies. Although there was alot of spam, it was also very active with a variety of items being sold. Now it is just people competing with each other on GTL

(e.g. 10 people selling overpriced everstones and then 5 people selling cheaper but still overpriced)

 

The trade chat needs to be more active. It is also the only chat where you can do shiny to shiny trades, which will stabilize the shiny market as it was always the case that shinies would drop if you could only pay in cash as it was always 'cash > shinies' and that was the case with GTL.

 

Encouraging shiny to shiny trade will increase many shiny values as well as encourage people to collect shinies.

 

Shiny Breeding

Although good to some people, it is pointless to those who wish to trade. For example, you would have to purchase an extra shiny for the two parents to breed. This increased the price of all common shinies by literally 150%. The cheapest shiny is now 1.2m compared to 400k. Although devs have made it easier for us to gain yen, this and the complications to shiny breeding have increased the prices of shinies too.

 

For shiny traders who wish to profit from this, it would be very difficult to do so, especially due to the inactivity of the trade thread and chat and the competitive market on GTL. 

 

GTL

Unless you are a noob or have a common shiny, it is very difficult to get your shinies to sell. Not to mention the 5% tax, people have to be more cautious now as there are risks of losing profit even if the shiny sells. 

 

It is so difficult to purchase a good shiny as well. If a shiny has remained on GTL for 2 weeks, you think it's overpriced and avoid it like the plague. You are also forced to only purchase shinies with cash which is so hard to earn. Many people are stingy with their cash due to how hard it is to earn and the huge variety of items you can purchase. As shinies also drop alot, people don't want to risk with their cash.

 

On the rare chance a cheap shiny comes out, people snipe it due to constantly refreshing 24/7. Everyone else sells their shinies very expensive as they are scared of selling for cheap, as well as making up possible losses from the 5% tax (a 10m shiny will equal 500k tax = 9.5, which can make a big difference)

 

I encourage more shiny traders to avoid using this and use the trade chat more.

 

Conclusion

You can continue focusing on the comp community (I am interested in comp too, I am in a comp team, I understand they have also been neglected) but you should start focusing on the shiny community more too. We are forgotten. Who do we ask for prices? What happens if rare shinies come out? What if we're getting ripped off? What if we want to trade shinies for shinies? I can play 20Q with this, but it won't make a difference.

 

Oh, and before you say hordes / leppa berries were introduced for us shiny traders - yeah we catch it (assuming we get lucky with the 1/1000000000 shiny rate), but it goes to my original point of how to sell it. 

 

I don't necessarily care about profit or I would have attempted to continue, but I feel that comp is the only way forward. All the shiny traders are either inactive / quit or hidden. MR and WOLF teams are forgotten. I'll give some names of forgotten players

 

@Alphamale @JoshLindsay10 @SneaKyKhaLidA @FlareBlitzz @brockhard @Xenocider

 

S1aNBSo.png

 

Thanks to the OP for bringing this up. The few such as Rigamorty and Aerun and a few others are the only remaining active shiny traders. Let's hope we can continue making positive changes.

 

- Incognition

 

Edited by Imperial
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This thread was an interesting read and is perhaps the right way to tackle a situation and show players that they arent happy with the way something is. 

 

Firstly, we need to consider that Trade Corner rules were made back when the section was extremely busy. I dont believe that Trade Corner will return to it's previous posterity but perhaps we could encourage a little more activity. The bumping rule needs to be looked at, back when the rule was made a trade thread could find itself on the second page a few hours after it's last post. A potential change could be "A thread bump once every 24 hours" for example.

 

Value discussion was removed after quite a controversial debate amongst staff, I believe it was split 50:50 for and against it's removal. I believe I was rather neutral in the debate so I can outline the points made for and against at the time:

For Value Discussion's Removal:

  • Created a stale market from prices being dictated by only a few. 
  • It was a place where a lot of people just bitched at each other and called out people for RMT.

Against Value Discussion's Removal:

  • Prices become far more subjective, easier for players to be scammed.
  • The GTL is not a stable pricing example for shinies.

It really boils down to what the Devs want to promote with their game, I get the impression that perhaps they want to centralise trading in game and away from the forums. Please dont think that it has anything to do with staff not wanting to do work because we have a large staff team currently and I am constantly being asked by Globals and CMs for more duties. We do have the man power and the motivation to accommodate changes being suggested here.

 

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Just my thoughts and an idea, I like the GTL, its nice for Pokemon that are not worth spamming in trade chat, yet at the same time don't warrant being deleted.

 

With that being said, if I recall correctly someone made an "Auction house" thread a long time ago? If not I think its a good idea, could be something every week/month where you can put your pokemon up for auction. Could even have buy ins for like different tiers of auctions like "Shiny only" "Comps only" ect. Not sure if its doable but it would be nice to have another way of selling your items/pokemon.

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1 hour ago, SirDusty said:

Just my thoughts and an idea, I like the GTL, its nice for Pokemon that are not worth spamming in trade chat, yet at the same time don't warrant being deleted.

 

With that being said, if I recall correctly someone made an "Auction house" thread a long time ago? If not I think its a good idea, could be something every week/month where you can put your pokemon up for auction. Could even have buy ins for like different tiers of auctions like "Shiny only" "Comps only" ect. Not sure if its doable but it would be nice to have another way of selling your items/pokemon.

doesnt even need an auction house, just needs a starting bid option in the gtl + an instaprice, would combine our current gtl with an auction system

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yes, current GTL can use an overhaul

- Implement the auction system

- List seller name (so the person interested can communicate directly and make offers, which brings back part of the social aspect)

- Show trade history already, even something as mundane as an "average price" tag calculated from past x sales

 

plus

- bring back value discussion

- make trade chat global (Come on, don't be lazy.)

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6 hours ago, Flavawhat said:

its not like we want GTL gone, it's a nice feature. but there's no reason a better trading community and GTL can't coexist.

Exactly this, this is not a GTL vs trade chat thread

A few people have misunderstood the message, GTL is an amazing feature and I am not saying we should revert to trade chat and forums alone. However, some aspects of GTL have to be tweaked, there are some good ideas thrown around and this kind of discussion is much needed

 

Subsequently, try not to go off topic with the way trade threads are trashed after some inactivity. It is fairly easy to revive threads, I have had to do so a significant amount of times with my shop in the past 4 years and never have I heard complaints from the staff members whom I asked to revive it

 

3 hours ago, Noad said:

Please dont think that it has anything to do with staff not wanting to do work because we have a large staff team currently and I am constantly being asked by Globals and CMs for more duties. We do have the man power and the motivation to accommodate changes being suggested here.

Really happy to read that

 

4 hours ago, Imperial said:

lol

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On 4/22/2017 at 9:44 AM, Imperial said:

I have done shiny trading successfully for a fair while, but stopped around 4-6 months ago. Here are my thoughts on shinies and trading in general. Please bear in mind I am speaking in the view of a shiny trader, not a comp player.

 

Introduction

People have been complaining that the comp players have been neglected, but I feel that the shiny traders are the real audience being forgotten here. We are the main source when it comes to trading (exception are occasional comps / breeders / grind items). Comp players have automated tourneys, a new mechanic coming, new items (life orb, etc) and shiny prizes.

 

What do us shiny traders have? We can't discuss shiny values which unsettles the market, trade chat is dead, GTL shinies are overpriced due to breeding (will explain later) and cheap ones get sniped by no-lifers constantly refreshing the page, shiny breeding is useless (explain why later) and shiny lotteries get tiresome.

 

Value Discussion

Although controversial to some, it gave shiny traders like myself some purpose to help out the community to avoid getting 'ripped off' by shinies. People have said that us shiny traders use it to manipulate the market and profit, but many people have asked  @Alphamale @JoshLindsay10 @FlareBlitzz @SneaKyKhaLidA about prices of shinies in the past because they were looked up to, and that is how they got their name just like  @DoubleJ etc got theirs being a comp player.

 

People asked for values because they were unsure of the market. Imagine the first shiny sudowoodo gets caught. Nobody will know the price, so they will either sell very cheap or very expensive. This is where value discussion came to its biggest advantage. Also, it stabled the shiny market and would've made a huge benefit to shinies which had prices crash significantly, such as Growlithe @Parke ;)

 

Personally, for this reason the value discussion should be bought back to reintroduce more purpose for shiny traders, encourage more activity in the forums and to stabilize the shiny market. (as more rare shinies have been appearing lately) It will also inform the community at once about changes in the market, instead of individuals who can manipulate prices. Nobody is even forced to view / contribute to the value discussion, so there is no need to complain about it.

 

Forum: Trade Corner

As the OP previously stated, it takes 3-5 days for a page to be bought onto page 2, where it used to only take 24 hours. There are never anymore shiny threads anymore as most people use GTL, however you can't hold negotiations / future trades with that person as it does not mention the seller on GTL. Encouraging more activity on the trade corner such as convincing more shiny threads to be opened would encourage more open communication between users as well as more knowledge on general shiny prices.

 

Chat: Trade Corner

I remember hanging around Vermilion City CH1 and checking the trade chat to see if there were any interesting shinies. Although there was alot of spam, it was also very active with a variety of items being sold. Now it is just people competing with each other on GTL

(e.g. 10 people selling overpriced everstones and then 5 people selling cheaper but still overpriced)

 

The trade chat needs to be more active. It is also the only chat where you can do shiny to shiny trades, which will stabilize the shiny market as it was always the case that shinies would drop if you could only pay in cash as it was always 'cash > shinies' and that was the case with GTL.

 

Encouraging shiny to shiny trade will increase many shiny values as well as encourage people to collect shinies.

 

Shiny Breeding

Although good to some people, it is pointless to those who wish to trade. For example, you would have to purchase an extra shiny for the two parents to breed. This increased the price of all common shinies by literally 150%. The cheapest shiny is now 1.2m compared to 400k. Although devs have made it easier for us to gain yen, this and the complications to shiny breeding have increased the prices of shinies too.

 

For shiny traders who wish to profit from this, it would be very difficult to do so, especially due to the inactivity of the trade thread and chat and the competitive market on GTL. 

 

GTL

Unless you are a noob or have a common shiny, it is very difficult to get your shinies to sell. Not to mention the 5% tax, people have to be more cautious now as there are risks of losing profit even if the shiny sells. 

 

It is so difficult to purchase a good shiny as well. If a shiny has remained on GTL for 2 weeks, you think it's overpriced and avoid it like the plague. You are also forced to only purchase shinies with cash which is so hard to earn. Many people are stingy with their cash due to how hard it is to earn and the huge variety of items you can purchase. As shinies also drop alot, people don't want to risk with their cash.

 

On the rare chance a cheap shiny comes out, people snipe it due to constantly refreshing 24/7. Everyone else sells their shinies very expensive as they are scared of selling for cheap, as well as making up possible losses from the 5% tax (a 10m shiny will equal 500k tax = 9.5, which can make a big difference)

 

I encourage more shiny traders to avoid using this and use the trade chat more.

 

Conclusion

You can continue focusing on the comp community (I am interested in comp too, I am in a comp team, I understand they have also been neglected) but you should start focusing on the shiny community more too. We are forgotten. Who do we ask for prices? What happens if rare shinies come out? What if we're getting ripped off? What if we want to trade shinies for shinies? I can play 20Q with this, but it won't make a difference.

 

Oh, and before you say hordes / leppa berries were introduced for us shiny traders - yeah we catch it (assuming we get lucky with the 1/1000000000 shiny rate), but it goes to my original point of how to sell it. 

 

I don't necessarily care about profit or I would have attempted to continue, but I feel that comp is the only way forward. All the shiny traders are either inactive / quit or hidden. MR and WOLF teams are forgotten. I'll give some names of forgotten players

 

@Alphamale @JoshLindsay10 @SneaKyKhaLidA @FlareBlitzz @brockhard @Xenocider

 

S1aNBSo.png

 

Thanks to the OP for bringing this up. The few such as Rigamorty and Aerun and a few others are the only remaining active shiny traders. Let's hope we can continue making positive changes.

 

- Incognition

 

To  even show how even more neglected we are, there was an issue with the website leaking account details and some  "hacker" got the info and logged on peoples accounts stealing shinys and yen and all devs did is ban the person and nothing to help others that gotten their stuff stolen due to their website getting hacked.

 

Hey sorry our security sucks and a hacker hacked into peoples accounts and stole your stuff but whatever we don't care about you.

 

 

Also thanks for the mention brah @Imperial

 

PS. Xeno is awesome.

 

Also VD is awesome af , if it weren't for that trash talk there wouldn't be wars between shiny clans, sure a lot trash talk but looking back was fun haha.

 

GTL ain't bad imo , the fact there is fees that are  quite high is dumb af imo but I see why its needed as well, but at the same time people just put stuff for super  overpriced values almost worst then tard chat.

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On 22/04/2017 at 4:39 PM, Noad said:

Value discussion was removed after quite a controversial debate amongst staff, I believe it was split 50:50 for and against it's removal. I believe I was rather neutral in the debate

Do you think it could be discussed again, taking into account current circumstances?

 

I believe re-discussing some of the Trade Corner rules would be beneficial as well

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3 minutes ago, Draekyn said:

Do you think it could be discussed again, taking into account current circumstances?

 

I believe re-discussing some of the Trade Corner rules would be beneficial as well

Re-discussing the Trade Corner rules is definitely something on my to do list as it is clear the section needs to be managed differently to accommodate the changes to it. 

 

Value discussion is something I continue to remain rather neutral on. It would be interesting to see a balanced argument for and against its re-reinstatement. However, if it was to return I would definitely say that the old constant bickering (e.g. vendettas between traders, insults thrown about) needs to be eradicated because that is not helpful to newcomers whatsoever. 

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there are bound to be arguments when it comes to players their valuable pokemanz, but is it rlly any worse than half the psl or other comp related threads.

i don't know how bad VD got in the end before it got closed, but it ran 'fine' for like 500 pages.

i think its worth giving it a shot, POYS thread got closed 47 times but the icebreaker thread is doing pretty good!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 22/04/2017 at 4:39 PM, Noad said:

 

  • Created a stale market from prices being dictated by only a few. 

This is where I disagree.

Maybe it's real, but it is not because of a value thread.

This is an issue that still exist when a value thread is on, but it's decreased a lot.

Today, we have prices out of nowhere, and having maybe 3 people giving you the same shit price is enought to make you scammed.

 

Having a thread give the access to everybody to ask and give their opinions. Even if most of the active people try to make it rigged, the chances you get scammed are way lowered.

And if you still find "shit values" and nobody react on it, I'm sorry to tell you that it means the value arent that "wrong".

 

Value is all about agreement, not between two people (which may be just scam) but between the whole market. By openning a thread, you give the market's actors a chance to find the "agreement". Even if we will never have the "perfect value", it's just economically obvious that more info makes you closer to it.

(Inb4 I hear more info = wrong info, yea, it's part of it, but less info gives wrong info a bigger place)

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ITT : *insert wall of text here*

 

A forum is a place where ideas are exchanged.

If you don't know what the popular/unpopular idea is- how are you supposed to get an estimate price ? 

GTL, aside from being ridiculous in listed prices, has no such thing as a trade history. There is no guide price like the grand exchange(which is brutally off mark most of the time).

Not everyone has the luxury to spam 24/7 in trade chat or the patience to take in all the low balls. I don't want to make friends just to know the price of a shiny/comp.

Please don't take away one of the few things people use a gaming forum for.

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I only read the OP and wanted to add my little 2 cents.

 

A big reason people dont want to play on Channel 1 is due to lag. So, making the trade chat channel based, I imagine, is causing more lag on channels 1 and 2, purely due to the channel-restrictions of trade chat. I know that most players DID migrate to channels 1 and 2 100% because of the trade chat, because channel 3 has been dead ever since,.

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Going to quote some things from Egg's post:

Quote

Market prices will likely be determined mostly by this system. As it's now going to be possible to find the value of a species in real time at a given moment depending on currently existing advertisements and demands, there is little use to discussing and speculating prices on the forums.

Market prices are determined by demand and supply, not a GTL system. The GTL system is merely there to improve economic efficiency which leads to lower prices (in other words: less time to spend looking for sellers and buyers, time is money).

Secondly, since there is no transaction history available in the GTL, it's not a reliable tool to find out the value of certain shiny pokemon, since they are simply not up for sale at any given moment, nor is there any history of them being for sale for a certain price.

 

Quote

This is why we are removing the Value Discussion thread from public view; with this, prices should be dependant on demand, desire, competition; rather than the attempt to meet more or less what is instructed to sell for on the forums.

Value discussion posts by known shiny traders are mostly value estimations, not instructions. These estimations are based on demand, supply, desire etc, not an arbitrary number they have come up with to look knowledgable or to enhance their own capital.

The idea that these shiny traders were using Value discussion to manipulate prices of shiny pokemon is silly for the most part. (in cases of extremely rare shinies such as starters, it 'could' be possible, but anyone rich enough to be part of the group trading those knows how it works). For any standard shiny, it's simply impossible to manipulate the price, since the supply is simply too large.

 

Benefits of Value Discussion:

- More transparancy -> More shiny trading -> More active economy

- More forum activity

 

TL:DR

Value Discussion was removed due to false beliefs, bring it back.

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