[UU Discussion] Golem

[Blue]

 

 

   

     The Tier Council has decided that Golem is a potentially banworthy threat within the UU tier, due to its offensive stats combined with the useful ability, sturdy, and an above average offensive movepool. Golem has very few switchins, while it forces many pokemon out. Golem's switch ins are limited to Meganium, Quagsire, and bulky Exeggutor, all of which need to be careful about switching in as they only resist one of Golem's stab moves. As it takes a core of Meganium along with rock resistance to handle Golem, there is a great deal of centralization in the UU tier. Meganium has had a huge surge of usage recently due to its ability to outspeed Golem with some speed evs and being able to ohko Golem with giga drain. Pokemon faster than Golem are almost always going to be one hit by Golem, thus Golem is guaranteed at least one kill if sturdy is still up, and is then free to explode on a slower pokemon later in the match. 

 

We would like the community's input on whether Golem is offensive uber, overcentralizing/unhealthy, or healthy in the UU meta. 

[RysPicz]

Imo, Golem is currently a centralizing offensive uber. Golem's presence forces certain teambuilds because if you will not have a surefire switchin for Golem (Meganium) you will end up being in a spot where you literally chose a poke which you will sac. I definietly do not think that this is healthy that I have to carry Meganium with me or multiple Bullet Weed pokes to deal with Golem. We had a lot of time to adjust to it but UU simply does not have tools outside of Meganium to deal with it.

 

Also Explo on Golem is pretty bad. The bread and butter set is Fire Punch/ Superpowka/ Eq/ Rock Blast, Explo is an option instead of maybe Superpower.

[DoubleJ]

On paper, Golem seems like a force to be reckoned with, but thus far as I've been grinding the UU ladder I am yet to even face one. If the usage reflects the strength in the next tier update, I might be willing to support a ban, but currently UU is really stuck in a state of "this shit sucks" and I think Golem can help alleviate how stall heavy it is. It also provides a worthwhile answer to Miltank, while still being susceptible to Cradily with that nice Bullet Seed to break up Sturdy. 

 

All in all, Golem is an incredible hit and run poke that benefits from RNG with 4-5 hit Rock Blasts and timely predictions. I'm not convinced it's an uber just yet though. 

[LifeStyle]

Golem killed my Manectric and my Manectric didn't kill Golem, pls ban.

[OrangeManiac]

12 hours ago, Bluejim said:

being able to ohko Golem

lel

 

Golem vs Golem leads are nasty. They're so common that it feels like you're essentially playing a 5v5 match. Putting too much pressure on Meganium to live Golem hits is a bit too much for a diverse metagame. The thing is Meganium already is a very solid wall and it's one of the most common used walls in standard wallcores. My main issue is that removing Golem opens way too much for maximum coverage wallcores which again makes UU very dependant on trappers. The UU is just lacking the wallbreakers which have coverage over everything in UU tier, like Golem does. I'm aware this goes to the argument of "keeping broken shit in order to check broken shit" but I expect some further actions after Golem is gone because the lack of Golem causes problems of making the def cores a bit too strong possibly because you can add one more Pokemon to your team to fill in the weaknesses and thus widening the wall core.

Edited March 9, 2017 by OrangeManiac

[DarylDixon]

11 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

Golem killed my Manectric and my Manectric didn't kill Golem, pls ban.

xd how much golem  cancer nab :v how to wall him ban :v uber direct

[Mnemosyne]

How about we ban sturdy on golem. Is that possible? Would be sad to see it gone in OU with 0 usage.

[epicdavenport]

5 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

How about we ban sturdy on golem. Is that possible? Would be sad to see it gone in OU with 0 usage.

Bans like that almost never happen anymore.

[Gunthug]

6 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

How about we ban sturdy on golem. Is that possible? Would be sad to see it gone in OU with 0 usage.

This is called a complex ban and we only use them in extreme circumstances. I don't think this qualifies 

[OldKeith]

Looking for updated usage statistics for this one, but for now I can't see how a pokemon that is too slow to go on a sweep can be even considered for a ban under offensive characteristics.

[Risadex]

His best counter Claydol doesnt worth a slot, faster mixed wallbreakers who can beat golem such as cacturne also are not a worth atm.

 

I just dont think the ability of "kill a poke 100% of the time cus sturdy" should be  Uber-offense considered, the main issue is that golem is a powerful Lead in the current meta but I honeslty prefer deal with golem in all teams then back to that stall-boring meta.

[Murcielago]

for what its worth: Golem seems to be viable/almost viable in OU...

[LionKIng]

4 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

for what its worth: Golem seems to be viable/almost viable in OU...

Our lord and best player on this game has spoken. Ban golem.

[Gunthug]

4 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

for what its worth: Golem seems to be viable/almost viable in OU...

How a Pokemon does in a higher tier has absolutely no influence on whether it is banned in a lower tier or not 

[Murcielago]

I was suggesting the fact that its viable in a higher tier might suggest its over powered in the lower tiers.

[Gunthug]

4 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

I was suggesting the fact that its viable in a higher tier might suggest its over powered in the lower tiers.

I think trapinch alone puts this theory to rest. 

[DaftCoolio]

12 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

lel

are you not running bullet seed?? so bad smh

[OrangeManiac]

7 hours ago, DaftCoolio said:

are you not running bullet seed?? so bad smh

Giga Drain was mentioned in OP though.

[RysPicz]

SIX AND A HALF YEARS LATER

 

jkjk. But can we ban this thing already? In my last 3 uu psl matches the leads were golem vs golem. 90% of battles between two experienced players is golem vs golem. And they both have a meganium as well.

[Mnemosyne]

1 hour ago, RysPicz said:

SIX AND A HALF YEARS LATER

 

jkjk. But can we ban this thing already? In my last 3 uu psl matches the leads were golem vs golem. 90% of battles between two experienced players is golem vs golem. And they both have a meganium as well.

Lead Claydol ez

[Gunthug]

What criteria though? I think that's what the council is hung up on right now, it's definitely not offensive uber so we've basically gotta look at centralizing/unhealthy and I haven't seen a lot of depth in those kind of pro ban arguments so far 

 

To clarify @RysPicz I know you've said it's centralizing but that alone isn't worthy of a ban, some have claimed it's actually a good centralizing force right now preventing stally play 

Edited March 21, 2017 by Gunthug

[RysPicz]

Okay Gunt, I get where are you coming from. I will elaborate on the issue a bit later on, Im still at work on phone and the post I have on my mind is gonna take quite a lot of effort.

[gbwead]

It is just hard to argue about centralisation right now considering Tentacruel just left UU. We also have Poliwrath in UU right now which shows people are trying to deal with Golem in new ways. I'm just not 100% convinced it should be banned right away. 

[Erayne]

I don't know much(/anything) about uu but what about relaxed claydol? Doesn't it perfectly counter golem's standard set? 

[NikhilR]

Just now, Erayne said:

I don't know much(/anything) about uu but what about relaxed claydol? Doesn't it perfectly counter golem's standard set? 

It does, but it is almost completely useless outside of that.