[OU Discussion] Chansey

[Coge]

30 minutes ago, notmudkip0 said:

or use shock wave xddddd

shockwave will never beat chansey

[pachima]

6 minutes ago, Coge said:

shockwave will never beat chansey

focus punch will.

And houndoom.

EZ.

[LuisPocho]

On 18/1/2017 at 2:18 AM, Robofiend said:

The synergy of CM and Trick on the same team is obvious, though. A popular teambuilding strategy is to pinpoint a weakness in the metagame and then build a team around that weakness (while managing other threats). E.g. Magnetrap and Normal spam. It's also worth pointing out that if Chansey runs Twave/Toxic there are physical mons that can predict that and set up or snipe something for free.

 

 

Magnetrap is a good comparison... if you do it correctly, you kill your enemyes steel pokes... if the opponnents doesnt have steel pokes, magne is still a great poke that can be usefull for your team... steel users are explotable

but trick against chansey is not like that.... at best, you end up with a leftovers special attacker (meh) and the opponent still have chansey alive wich still force your calm minder to run a max of 2 attacks (because it needs calm mind/recover, calm mind/rest)... even more, if you have a trick user and a calm minder its surely trick starmie (wich will be totally walled by that chansey since it only has leftovers now) and the calm mind user gonna be espeon or zam.... 2 attacks zam has many problems

what I´m trying to say, is that all pokes has weaknesses that are very exploitable. But chansey´s weak points... well, chansey users can deal with them pretty easily

Edited January 20, 2017 by LuisPocho

[LifeStyle]

I reached a 128 man OU finals yesterday without using Chansey once. Always had something to abuse every Chansey I faced like Trapinch/SD Zangoose/Sub Swampert/Growth Venusaur/Taunt CM Alakazam/etc.

It's not OP, close this thread kty smd smh.

Edited January 28, 2017 by LifeStyle

[Erayne]

1 hour ago, LifeStyle said:

I reached a 128 man OU finals yesterday without using Chansey once. Always had something to abuse every Chansey I faced like Trapinch/SD Zangoose/Sub Swampert/Growth Venusaur/Taunt CM Alakazam/etc.

It's not OP, close this thread kty smd smh.

exactly! Chansey is so exploitable! You've got so many options that won't only easily counter it, but even take advantage of it. 

[NikhilR]

2 hours ago, LifeStyle said:

I reached a 128 man OU finals yesterday without using Chansey once. Always had something to abuse every Chansey I faced like Trapinch/SD Zangoose/Sub Swampert/Growth Venusaur/Taunt CM Alakazam/etc.

It's not OP, close this thread kty smd smh.

Thanks for revealing the set before TT uguu. 

[LuisPocho]

7 hours ago, LifeStyle said:

I reached a 128 man OU finals yesterday without using Chansey once. Always had something to abuse every Chansey I faced like Trapinch/SD Zangoose/Sub Swampert/Growth Venusaur/Taunt CM Alakazam/etc.

It's not OP, close this thread kty smd smh.

how it is that taunt cm alakazam can kill chansey?

[LifeStyle]

Just now, LuisPocho said:

how it is that taunt cm alakazam can kill chansey?

Nik would kill me if I told you

[pachima]

14 minutes ago, LuisPocho said:

how it is that taunt cm alakazam can kill chansey?

 

its against bad chanseys. I wanted him to try that against mine.

[suigin]

1 hour ago, LuisPocho said:

how it is that taunt cm alakazam can kill chansey?

recover I guess
taunt cm recover and one extra move that I assume is psychic

Make sure they cannot pursuit you otherwise you're dead as shit.

[LuisPocho]

1 hour ago, suigin said:

recover I guess
taunt cm recover and one extra move that I assume is psychic

Make sure they cannot pursuit you otherwise you're dead as shit.

taunt/cm/recover psychic sounds like a valid waste of turns

[LuisPocho]

in the end I cant see how its that you abused so much against all those chanseys... I mean trapinch is not something that abuse chansey its only something to kill chansey and die after that; sub swampert doesnt seem like something that cannt be stopped by a regular wall or gyarados; growth venu was already mentioned, lets suppose you played against a toxic chansey; zangoose, isnt it more a late game sweeper that you bring after all the opponent walls are dead or damaged?

[suigin]

If Trapinch counts as a Chansey counter (yeah let's roll with this use of the word for a sec) then why don't we count Hitmontop as a Tyranitar counter? Both are extremely shitty in the tier besides that one use, sure Trapinch can nail Chansey and maybe Umbreon if they don't have Shed Hull but is dead weight besides that. Hitmontop can nail Tyranitar and maybe cover some fighting type needs but besides that and intimidate+spinning it's pretty shitty in the tier. Zangoose and Growth Venu dislike switching into Chansey's T-Wave as much as Flygon dislikes switching into Tyranitar's Ice Punch/Beam or Heracross and Breloom into Tyranitar's Fire Blast/Punch/Flamethrower. Taunt Alakazam? Sure nails Chansey (Assuming no T-wave on the switch) but then Poochyena uses Pursuit and Chansey is free to do whatever the same way a fully physical Ttar will just switch into Magneton the moment a Skarm rears its head (Except Skarm can carry Shed Hull).

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B-b-b-b-but Suigayning!! That Zam could carry Signal Beam or HP fire! Nobody uses Poochyena anyways you nooblord.

Houndoom nails HP fire and I'm sure it can live a +1 Signal Beam, Metagross likely survives Signal Meme too, if Scarf Hera or Band Aero switch into it while it's using one of its non offensive moves then he's dead.

 

I could also brag about winning a tournament during the Hoopa-U Gen6 meta without using it and just sending out Mandibuzz to nail it and it wouldn't mean shit.

 

But this is a shitpost, not a good argument, you can make cases like this for a lot of other overpowered mons and TTar's massive offensive penis and risk when outplaying it cannot be compared to Chansey's uguu status inducing .

 

Like I said earlier I don't believe Chansey should be banned, the same way I don't believe Blissey should be banned, I'm attacking it simply because I hate the Pokemon and seeing it in 50% of the matches makes me puke and I'm a big manchild who hates fun. But at the same time I feel like banning Blissey and leaving Chansey around is fucking stupid. They both do the exact same thing, the only difference is Blissey can maybe use a few more offensive moves relatively well, but we all know everyone uses it just as a blanket check for special attackers. There's probably one memester that maybe cheesed an important match with CM Hyper Voice Blissey and the next post quoting this will be some guy going "@Blisseymaster1337  Lol look at this tool doubting your Hyper Voice Blissey" but we know it's bullshit and it isn't primarily used as an offensive Pokemon.

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Chansey is a lot worse than Blissey, especially in OU. Me and Zebra talked about it; not being able to really hit things with Tbolt/Ice Beam sucks for Chansey, especially with shit like Gengar around. If Chansey becomes "Blissey 2.0", then we might do something about it, but it seems really unlikely.

-Senile 2015

Sure Gengar was banned and now we got Haunter who still does that whole switching into Chansey and setting up a sub thing and works perfectly fine in OU. However if you are sick of those Haunters and want to be an absolute madman like Blisseymaster1337 then

 

0 SpA Chansey Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Haunter: 52-62 (43.3 - 51.6%) -- 8.6% chance to 2HKO

0 SpA Chansey Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Haunter: 27-32 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 19.3% chance to 4HKO

0 SpA Chansey Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Haunter: 27-32 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 19.3% chance to 4HKO

 

Back then when Blissey got banned Chansey's moves were calced against Gengar and it did around 19% not breaking any subs which was a selling point for letting Chansey stay after Blissey got banned but now Gengar is also gone so.

 

The downside being Chansey becoming semi-dead weight in certain matchups but one could argue the same happened to Blissey, that's how coverage works.

 

In the end my opinion is "It shouldn't be banned, but at the same time Blissey shouldn't be banned. But if Blissey is banned then why the fuck isn't Chansey banned when it does literally the same thing Blissey did?"

Just test ban it for a month, see if we get bukkaked by Starmies Jolteons and Typhlosions and then unban it and call it a day. The only people hurt by it would be some new players that decided to make a Chansey for comp since it was cheap and effective but at most they'll be down 100k.

[Gunthug]

@suigin you made a lot of points but the only one I'll tackle now is the first one since I'm on my phone. The comparison between trapinch and hitmontop is really poor imo. Barring shed hull trapinch comes in and guarantees a dead chansey, period. Hitmontop could switch into pretty much any common ttar set but it certainly wasn't guaranteed a kill, as ttar could chunk it with a powerful stab or coverage move on the switch then simply switch out. Top doesn't carry reliable recovery either so good luck doing that throughout the match. 

 

And on top of that, no one is arguing that trapinch alone is what's keeping Chansey bearable in OU, whereas with ttar you'd pretty much have to make the argument that stuff like hitmontop was OK to run in order to argue it should stay. So again I don't think that comparison holds much water 

[suigin]

I know it's a long post but you guys should try reading it entirely

[Spaintakula]

1 hour ago, suigin said:

Zangoose and Growth Venu dislike switching into Chansey's T-Wave as much as Flygon dislikes switching into Tyranitar's Ice Punch/Beam or Heracross and Breloom into Tyranitar's Fire Blast/Punch/Flamethrower. Taunt Alakazam

You got nice points, and don't mind me, I'm always nitpicking on stuff, nothing new, but:

Okay you're right about goose, but growth venu isn't at all dead weight vs chansey while para'd. Sure it's effectiveness is brought down by a lot, but comparing it to mons taking 4x damage is just really really off of eachother.

 

1 hour ago, suigin said:

Sure Gengar was banned and now we got Haunter who still does that whole switching into Chansey and setting up a sub thing and works perfectly fine in OU. However if you are sick of those Haunters and want to be an absolute madman like Blisseymaster1337 then

 

0 SpA Chansey Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Haunter: 52-62 (43.3 - 51.6%) -- 8.6% chance to 2HKO

0 SpA Chansey Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Haunter: 27-32 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 19.3% chance to 4HKO

0 SpA Chansey Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Haunter: 27-32 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 19.3% chance to 4HKO

 

Back then when Blissey got banned Chansey's moves were calced against Gengar and it did around 19% not breaking any subs which was a selling point for letting Chansey stay after Blissey got banned but now Gengar is also gone so.

Not sure if I'm getting it completely right, but are you saying Chansey with coverage moves like Psy or Icebolt can deal with haunter? Because if you're switching to sub on a chansey and actually want to beat her without being in a stall war 1v1, then pain split is the prefered course of action, which deals even with coverage like psychic. She's force to recover, you're forcing her to recover even more, hence, her losing the effectiveness of stalling out attacks towards her.

Either way, as I said, you got some points, and I really don't think this uguu deserves a ban, but whatever pleases the playerbase.

[Maelstrom]

unban blissey and ppl will start to run "2 chanseys"

[suigin]

9 minutes ago, Spaintakula said:

You got nice points, and don't mind me, I'm always nitpicking on stuff, nothing new, but:

Okay you're right about goose, but growth venu isn't at all dead weight vs chansey while para'd. Sure it's effectiveness is brought down by a lot, but comparing it to mons taking 4x damage is just really really off of eachother.

 

Not sure if I'm getting it completely right, but are you saying Chansey with coverage moves like Psy or Icebolt can deal with haunter? Because if you're switching to sub on a chansey and actually want to beat her without being in a stall war 1v1, then pain split is the prefered course of action, which deals even with coverage like psychic. She's force to recover, you're forcing her to recover even more, hence, her losing the effectiveness of stalling out attacks towards her.

Either way, as I said, you got some points, and I really don't think this uguu deserves a ban, but whatever pleases the playerbase.

While I do know that subsplit is a thing, most of the Haunters I've seen have been Sub-Taunt+offensive moves and really it's perfect to deal with Chansey and I wouldn't even consider a Chansey to have psychic so maybe I just kind of erased it from my mind as a possiblity. But yeah SubSplit should do fairly well.

And yeah I agree calling Para'd Growth Venusaur dead weight was a bit too much, it's still fairly effective.

 

Quote

unban blissey and ppl will start to run "2 chanseys"

I once saw a madman do that on showdown.

Edited January 29, 2017 by suigin

[Spaintakula]

1 hour ago, Maelstrom said:

unban blissey and ppl will start to run "2 chanseys"

I mean, unless your job is to prove you have 0 creativity and are a complete uguu, then sure

[notmudkip0]

Just now, Spaintakula said:

I mean, unless your job is to prove you have 0 creativity and are a complete uguu, then sure

walluguu would probably do it

[suigin]

7 minutes ago, Spaintakula said:

I mean, unless your job is to prove you have 0 creativity and are a complete uguu, then sure

it's not like mmo is the most creati-

[Erayne]

Sub-growth vaporeon, Wish/rest-growth jolteon, Trick zam, Trick starmie, Trick porygon, Trick gardevoir, Metal sound magneton, Fake tears jolteon, Sub haunter, any venusaur, calm mind espeon, trick espeon... Just a list of special attackers that chansey can't wall, those are the ones that came to my mind in 1 minute, I'm quite sure there's a lot more.  Just stop being lazy playing 6 walls and expecting to break a chansey (you could even do that anyway with some skills).

Edited January 30, 2017 by Erayne

[notmudkip0]

24 minutes ago, Erayne said:

Sub haunter

I had a battle with chan vs haunter, chan PP stalls haunter. you'd probably want to carry disable if you plan on using haunter.

[LuisPocho]

2 hours ago, Erayne said:

Sub-growth vaporeon, Wish/rest-growth jolteon, Trick zam, Trick starmie, Trick porygon, Trick gardevoir, Metal sound magneton, Fake tears jolteon, Sub haunter, any venusaur, calm mind espeon, trick espeon... Just a list of special attackers that chansey can't wall, those are the ones that came to my mind in 1 minute, I'm quite sure there's a lot more.  Just stop being lazy playing 6 walls and expecting to break a chansey (you could even do that anyway with some skills).

someone show me last time they saw those worked against good players

[Spaintakula]

3 hours ago, notmudkip0 said:

I had a battle with chan vs haunter, chan PP stalls haunter. you'd probably want to carry disable if you plan on using haunter.

I mean, if you have all attacks haunter, sure it outstalls.

Running Taunt or Psplit changes that

1 hour ago, LuisPocho said:

someone show me last time they saw those worked against good players

I don't think that really matters too much. Just by numbering them alone, and factoring in how chansey can't interfere too much with them shows they're a viable way of abusing chansey's presence. Which is one of the things it clearly denies: Chansey isn't "unbeatable" by any means.

It's not chansey's fault directly for those sets not being run too often, but the metagame itself and how poorly our players interpret it, atleast the ones who don't have fun with it.