Jump to content

[OU Discussion] Chansey


Blue

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, Munya said:

I don't think that's a gimmick, I think that's running a move to counter a type of threat, else all hidden powers would be considered gimmicks?

So basically the test ban isbecause people can't 1 hit ko chansey with any move they want + the usage %?

i mean seems fair enough i would like to kill it with shadow ball rofl

Link to comment
On 4.6.2017 at 6:04 AM, Maelstrom said:

Just wait till ppl learns to use hp ground, kek

248 SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 148-176 (98.6 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

 

248 SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 148 SpD Houndoom: 124-148 (82.6 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

248+ SpA Life Orb Alakazam Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 148 SpD Houndoom: 118-140 (78.6 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

248+ SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Houndoom: 124-146 (82.6 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

guess people should rebreed those 2 HP IV and 2 SpDef IV Houndooms. @LifeStyle

Link to comment
6 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

30HP 27 SPDef actually

248 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 132-156 (88 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

 

248+ SpA Life Orb Alakazam Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 144-170 (96 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

 

Link to comment
On 11.06.2017 at 11:05 AM, OrangeManiac said:

I hope the post is coming soon though so the test period hasn't almost ended before the community gets a reasoning why it was even made kek.

 

This

 

Been almost 3 weeks, top kek.

@Gunthug tagging you cuz you're good at writing, write us some good poem reasoning stuff :>

Link to comment

Thanks for the ban post. There's a couple of things I want to address, though.

 

Quote

Metagross
Flygon
Venusaur
Forretress
Starmie
Skarmory
Gyarados
Weezing
Heracross
Milotic

 
All of these Pokemon can be, and often are, tailored to take advantage of Chansey's presence. Metagross, Flygon, Gyarados, and Heracross can muscle past it on the physical side. Venusaur, Forretress, and Skarmory can often set up on it. Weezing and Milotic synergize well with Chansey as some of its most common partners, forming a very solid physical/special defensive core.

Flygon and Gyarados are far from being the best Pokemon to deal with Chansey and its buddies. They are very unreliable wallbreakers and often used only to sweep late game. Breaking Chansey + Milotic/Weezing is pretty much an impossible task to said Pokemon. Getting high usage for Pokemon like Blaziken, Medicham (and listed Heracross) are much better examples of Chansey's defensive centralization in this way than Gyarados and Flygon and they are the truest Chansey counters as far as I'm concerned.

 

Metagross is and will be forever to be used because it's a threat on its own. Amazing typing and the only Pokemon reaching 600 BST, which is miles beyond everybody else. I'm having very tough time drawing parallels between's Metagross' high usage and Chansey being reason for that.

 

If there's anything that is a clear demonstration of Chansey's overwhelming presence, it's Venusaur. People starting to use one of the only Pokemon that does not give many fucks about this special wall shows in my opinion the clearest centralization around this blob. It shows that the demand of special attackers with capability to beat Chansey is massive. Heck, the reason why I started to use Xatu before was that it was a special sweeper that defeated Chansey. When every Pokemon that is a special attacker but doesn't have any weird trick (pun semi-intended) to beat Chansey is completely unviable, the metagame is going to be narrow.

 

In my opinion the only usage based parallels that are solely because of Chansey are Venusaur and defensive walls like Weezing/Milotic/Skarmory to counter the physical threats against Chansey. But are they after all? Venusaur is like I addressed but I'm very unsure about making that claim about the defensive walls. I'd really like to get usage back this up eventually from post-ban but these three physical walls are used because, well.. people love physical walls and spikers. They just also happen to support Chansey a lot. What I'm saying that if (or 'when') the usage for said Pokemon is almost the same as it was before the ban, then we cannot make the claim that they were used because Chansey. They are all individually very nice Pokemon serving a very needed purpose but also happen to support Chansey and oh boy they do it well. So when you make the claim that these are used due to Chansey, you're basically trapping yourself with this argument if the usage of the physical walls won't go notably down.

 

Quote

Chansey's usage is around 40% higher overall than the next special wall, Umbreon, which finds itself on approximately 12% of OU teams. This means that players are unlikely to encounter a different choice of special wall on more than 1/8 teams. So what makes Chansey so splashable? It has the special bulk to completely shrug off special attackers, high enough base HP to soak up most non-super effective physical attacks, and healing options to not only keep itself healthy, but support its team as well. It often runs Protect for scouting choice locked moves, and has a fantastic ability in Natural Cure that allows it to absorb status ailments for its teammates without suffering after it switches out again. The combination of these notable traits and many more makes it difficult for players not to choose Chansey when they start building a team.

- Special bulk to shrug off special attackers

- High enough base HP to soak up most non-super effective physical attackers

- Wish support

- Protect to scout for Choice locked moves.

- Natural Cure

 

If you remove the "Natural cure part", you could be just explaining Umbreon at this point. There are a couple of special attackers than can plow through Umbreon, such as Specs Eruption Typhlosion and Rain Dance Hydro Pump Kingdra. Other than that Umbreon can fill all the requirements and Heal Bell kinda fills in for lack of Natural Cure.

 

I am aware what made Chansey better as a special wall and it was mostly because setting up on Chansey was harder than Umbreon. Chansey's Seismic Toss was able to break Substitutes of anything that didn't have a base HP of over 100. In addition Chansey's Thunder Wave stopped many setting up machines. Umbreon is just kinda awkwardly standing there when opponent is setting up and requires a switch if opponent runs a Substitute.

 

However, what I'm asking that if these following things describe something unhealthy, what makes Umbreon fine?

 

Quote

If any special attackers turn out to be too overwhelming during this period, they may also be added to the ban list and the duration of the test extended.

This is a very good decision to optionally add more Pokemon to the test-ban list. I was kind of afraid of Alakazam but Umbreon and Houndoom have been keeping it in check. Specs Typhlosion also haven't got the usage it should through its insane raw power but we'll see.

 

Edit: I would also like to point out that the metagame without Chansey is way more fun. No, really. You can use multiple different types of teambuilds since so many special attackers and weaker physical attackers are viable now. The only downside is that you often leave yourself vulnerable to something with less defensive Pokemon. But hey, it's Pokemon. It's very matchup based game. If there's anything to really say about Chansey ban in general is that it has opened tons of options for other Pokemon to be used and that's great. I would personally use that as an argument that the metagame is healthier and just leave it at that but again that's just me. I just don't entirely agree with the reasoning of the post making Chansey in some way banworthy.

 

 

Edited by OrangeManiac
Link to comment
3 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

Thanks for the ban post. There's a couple of things I want to address, though.

 

Flygon and Gyarados are far from being the best Pokemon to deal with Chansey and its buddies. They are very unreliable wallbreakers and often used only to sweep late game. Breaking Chansey + Milotic/Weezing is pretty much an impossible task to said Pokemon. Getting high usage for Pokemon like Blaziken, Medicham (and listed Heracross) are much better examples of Chansey's defensive centralization in this way than Gyarados and Flygon and they are the truest Chansey counters as far as I'm concerned.

 

Metagross is and will be forever to be used because it's a threat on its own. Amazing typing and the only Pokemon reaching 600 BST, which is miles beyond everybody else. I'm having very tough time drawing parallels between's Metagross' high usage and Chansey being reason for that.

 

If there's anything that is a clear demonstration of Chansey's overwhelming presence, it's Venusaur. People starting to use one of the only Pokemon that does not give many fucks about this special wall shows in my opinion the clearest centralization around this blob. It shows that the demand of special attackers with capability to beat Chansey is massive. Heck, the reason why I started to use Xatu before was that it was a special sweeper that defeated Chansey. When every Pokemon that is a special attacker but doesn't have any weird trick (pun semi-intended) to beat Chansey is completely unviable, the metagame is going to be narrow.

 

In my opinion the only usage based parallels that are solely because of Chansey are Venusaur and defensive walls like Weezing/Milotic/Skarmory to counter the physical threats against Chansey. But are they after all? Venusaur is like I addressed but I'm very unsure about making that claim about the defensive walls. I'd really like to get usage back this up eventually from post-ban but these three physical walls are used because, well.. people love physical walls and spikers. They just also happen to support Chansey a lot. What I'm saying that if (or 'when') the usage for said Pokemon is almost the same as it was before the ban, then we cannot make the claim that they were used because Chansey. They are all individually very nice Pokemon serving a very needed purpose but also happen to support Chansey and oh boy they do it well. So when you make the claim that these are used due to Chansey, you're basically trapping yourself with this argument if the usage of the physical walls won't go notably down.

 

- Special bulk to shrug off special attackers

- High enough base HP to soak up most non-super effective physical attackers

- Wish support

- Protect to scout for Choice locked moves.

- Natural Cure

 

If you remove the "Natural cure part", you could be just explaining Umbreon at this point. There are a couple of special attackers than can plow through Umbreon, such as Specs Eruption Typhlosion and Rain Dance Hydro Pump Kingdra. Other than that Umbreon can fill all the requirements and Heal Bell kinda fills in for lack of Natural Cure.

 

I am aware what made Chansey better as a special wall and it was mostly because setting up on Chansey was harder than Umbreon. Chansey's Seismic Toss was able to break Substitutes of anything that didn't have a base HP of over 100. In addition Chansey's Thunder Wave stopped many setting up machines. Umbreon is just kinda awkwardly standing there when opponent is setting up and requires a switch if opponent runs a Substitute.

 

However, what I'm asking that if these following things describe something unhealthy, what makes Umbreon fine?

 

This is a very good decision to optionally add more Pokemon to the test-ban list. I was kind of afraid of Alakazam but Umbreon and Houndoom have been keeping it in check. Specs Typhlosion also haven't got the usage it should through its insane raw power but we'll see.

 

Edit: I would also like to point out that the metagame without Chansey is way more fun. No, really. You can use multiple different types of teambuilds since so many special attackers and weaker physical attackers are viable now. The only downside is that you often leave yourself vulnerable to something with less defensive Pokemon. But hey, it's Pokemon. It's very matchup based game. If there's anything to really say about Chansey ban in general is that it has opened tons of options for other Pokemon to be used and that's great. I would personally use that as an argument that the metagame is healthier and just leave it at that but again that's just me. I just don't entirely agree with the reasoning of the post making Chansey in some way banworthy.

 

 

Appreciate all the input, but it's important to note that the chansey post wasn't arguing that it was banworthy, just that it was test worthy. There's a pretty big difference there. No one is arguing that the listed pokes are only used because of chansey, too

Link to comment

lol... some of these reasonings to ban chansey seem as if they come from another planet.  Like... the things sited and reasoning doesn't even correspond to what happens in the game.

 

Not that I care at this point, TBH I'm glad you banned it, though the ban was unwarranted. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Gunthug said:

Appreciate all the input, but it's important to note that the chansey post wasn't arguing that it was banworthy, just that it was test worthy. There's a pretty big difference there. No one is arguing that the listed pokes are only used because of chansey, too

Well, after a test you should still be able to make arguments that why something is worth a ban for unhealthy characteristics, proven by results of a test. What comes to "test worthy", well there isn't a separate definition to it - or at least one that is made for the public to see. Tests just provide valuable information to either back up the arguments for a ban or dispute them. As far as I've seen it at least, you're the ones making the standards though.

 

Also, I didn't take the post that aforementioned Pokemon were "only used because of Chansey". The post just used the specific Pokemon as evidence for Chansey's impact in the metagame and I wanted to dispute the ones that I didn't agree with to be related to Chansey in a notable way. We all know that no Pokemon is used solely for just one reason or just one specific Pokemon.

 

Except Murkrow in current NU. New meta.

 

 

Edited by OrangeManiac
Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.