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[OU Discussion] Chansey


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Infernape isn't attainable in BW 1.

Conkeldurr alone can really ruin Chansey's day and is an amazing anti-metagame pick in general though.

And even if we eventually find Eviolite Chansey banworthy after all the more offensive threats get banned people can still evolve it into Blissey and that's a whole other test.

This egg just refuses to die.

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54 minutes ago, suigin said:

Infernape isn't attainable in BW 1.

Conkeldurr alone can really ruin Chansey's day and is an amazing anti-metagame pick in general though.

And even if we eventually find Eviolite Chansey banworthy after all the more offensive threats get banned people can still evolve it into Blissey and that's a whole other test.

This egg just refuses to die.

Considering the devs just skipped over gen 4 entirely, I think it's safe to assume we won't see the gen 4 region and we'll see the gen 4 starters somewhere else, similar to the gen 2 starters we have currently. 

 

Conkeldurr is nice, but it has some moveslot issues. Most of them don't run a coverage move for jellicent.

 

Also we should probably stop this discussion for now since this is the chansey discussion thread. 

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On 02/06/2017 at 2:29 AM, BurntZebra said:

Considering the devs just skipped over gen 4 entirely, I think it's safe to assume we won't see the gen 4 region and we'll see the gen 4 starters somewhere else, similar to the gen 2 starters we have currently.

Eh.

 

They're two different scenarios.

As Kyu has pointed out in a thread I'm currently too lazy to look for - we'll probably introduce Gen IV at a later date.

The starters were the only species left from gen II (discluding legendaries).

 

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Overall, today's tournament felt and looked really good. As expected, there were several defensive cores being used, but above all I really didn't see many overpowered special threats. Typhlosion was ofc dominant, but experienced players all seemed to have an answer for it. I didn't see much from Zam, but with the plethora of Houndooms out there it wasn't that much of a surprise. 

 

So far, the OU tier seems very diverse and quite balanced. 

 

 

@DaftCoolio no UU doom anytime soon haha

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2 hours ago, epicdavenport said:

Not like 50% usage Chansey is any better. 

I think doom's usage right now is about the same %. Chances are people like you wantting Chansey banned makes you already a bad OU player without any skill to stop it. 

Edited by Takens
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2 hours ago, LuisPocho said:

idk how to feel when some many people can find so many ways to abuse chansey but claim there is only 1 way to fight against kazam

you can trick chansey, super power it ,jolteon wish eats twave chan alive, venusaur modest can't be walled by a chansey, she can't eve touch haunter tbh. need more?

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10 minutes ago, Takens said:

Making core's to stop the overpowered mons just cuz TC made wrong decisions ok, or we can just make a new TC which actually plays the game and knows this ban hurts the meta and made it unhealthy.

 

Do you know it is a test ban right? We felt that the usage of chansey was higher than any other pokemon in the tier by a lot and that alone is something to consider when looking at this case, some of us felt chansey was not banworthy but to see if it's really unhealthy we need to test ban and that's something we all agreed with, since it's not as direct as it's offensive uber or defensive uber, etc, that's how it goes. Now if you're having troubles building defensive cores in a tier without chansey I think it's good to check your build skills since throwing a team around chansey is way easier and something everyone can do, that would be better than bashing TC for doing what we thought was right, don't you think?

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2 hours ago, Arimanius said:

Do you know it is a test ban right? We felt that the usage of chansey was higher than any other pokemon in the tier by a lot and that alone is something to consider when looking at this case, some of us felt chansey was not banworthy but to see if it's really unhealthy we need to test ban and that's something we all agreed with, since it's not as direct as it's offensive uber or defensive uber, etc, that's how it goes. Now if you're having troubles building defensive cores in a tier without chansey I think it's good to check your build skills since throwing a team around chansey is way easier and something everyone can do, that would be better than bashing TC for doing what we thought was right, don't you think?

How can you even say that being inactive on the game. I know what it means a test ban, but some times i think you guys do this kind of stuff without seeing how it affects the tier.

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11 hours ago, Takens said:

you can trick chansey, super power it ,jolteon wish eats twave chan alive, venusaur modest can't be walled by a chansey, she can't eve touch haunter tbh. need more?

if you really believe all those mons work, just imagine how many plays you can make against alakazam

and I cant imagine the problems you are having against starmie or magne

Edited by LuisPocho
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4 hours ago, Takens said:

So are we getting forced now to get an specific moveset to play on the tier?

My two cents:

 

Chansey is so good that you're forced to run one or more of the checks that you previously mentioned in order to apply any sort of substantial pressure to it, otherwise it takes a proverbial shit on most teams and makes it incredibly difficult to maneuvre any sort of special sweep; so I feel what you're saying contradicts your original argument...

 

Don't get me wrong, I love chansey as much as the next guy, but I welcome this test ban. 

 

It allows so much freedom to be creative when teambuilding and forces mons to take on roles that they previously never had to. With chansey around it's too easy to just slap it into a team and then not have to worry about any special threats; and without chansey around you actually need to put a decent amount of thought into your team builds to cover the main threats in the tier like alakazam and typhlosion. 

 

Additionally, a chansey-less meta forces you to adopt a more offensive and strategic playstyle in order to be successful and that, I think, is a breath of fresh air for the OU tier 

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So I've tried this new OU metagame and I've already came into following conclusions. In order to have an effective OU team you need following things:

 

1) Counter to Sunny Day teams. Life Orb Sun sweepers + Specs Typhlosion is absolutely deadly and barely anything switches in for these reliably. The options are very limited: Milotic doesn't work reliably since it gets pwned by Sun Beam, Umbreon does laughable damage, Porygon2 doesn't have enough bulk to live 2 hits ever. What's so incredibly ironic about countering sun-spam that the best option to counter sun-spam at the moment is Flash Fire users. And guess what, their main moveset is sun spam.

 

There are some niche options like Kingdra to take 1/4x fire attacks, which is a solid answer. Weather wars(tm)? (VGC 2016 flashbacks coming in)

 

2) Counter to Alakazam. Oh god, this thing just shreks. There are no defensive Pokemon that can reliably beat him. None. Countering Alakazam has mainly become the task of offensive Pokemon, such as Scarf Doom or other Scarfers. Optionally you could opt to use stuff like Pursuit Aero.

 

3) Counter to Flygon. Flygon is now the top tier physical sweeper and the fact that Milotic and especially Slowbro lost bunch of viability makes Flygon sweep with even more ease.

 

All of these first three things need offensive Pokemon to counter these things most effectively.

 

What's so incredibly notable about countering Sunny Day and Alakazam is that Chansey was singlehandedly able to serve as a counter to both of these while Chansey's support covered the third one. This opened up tons of variety for your last Pokemon. In this way Chansey was everything but unhealthy. But on the flipside, Chansey itself limited the OU teambuild a lot because breaking Chansey wasn't an easy task and often you needed very specific Pokemon to do so.

 

Was Chansey so incredibly good? Nah. I think Chansey's supporters, like Arcanine and Milotic made it so incredibly good. The fact that whenever Chansey got countered it had more than tons of viable options to counter said Pokemon made it so good. But is it the fault of Chansey? Hardly, if you ask me. This is kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. I don't think OU is healthy at all in its current form. Chansey would help with bunch of offensive powerhouses while it still is easy to play around with correct movesets. 

 

So, what to do about the current situation? I think this is very unorthodox but I would consider complex banning Wish from Chansey for being the overall best option. Complex bans are only used when a flat ban would result in a unpleasant outcome. I think this could be one of those rare times. Chansey itself is a very meta helping defensive option for the tier. However, the fact that the easiness it passed Wish was obnoxious. Like obnoxious enough to possibly even call it Support Ubers. Chansey was supposed to be the Pokemon that is a momentum killer to your team but Wish actually brought the Chansey user the momentum.

 

Other option is that we start to individually discuss every possible OU powerhouse that is arising from the current metagame. But do we want to do that? Up to the community, I guess.

 

Edited by OrangeManiac
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