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[OU Discussion] Chansey


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The cold Truth is I'm Only concerned about this pokemon impacting the tier

 if the Usage persists or stays above 48%  ..... that makes me feel like its just too much Chansey......

I'm not interested to outright ban everything in the tier, however If something is over centralizing and taking over I don't see that as healthy.

I want healthy balance and good fun fair competition.

I just can't help but question the impact its having if one single pokemon is used in more than half the battles that happen...

In some way this feels stale and that its putting limitations on a vast list of possible outcomes and strategies available to the player.

I feel that for the health of the meta..... 

variety when it comes to strategy should flourish the most.

For the sake of Healthy Competition.

If anything is putting limitations on a vast majority of other things and doing so in an oppressing way.

I think that things whatever it may be is unhealthy....  In this case the thing that we are discussing is Chansey.

If it wasn't being so abused and exploited in usage  honestly there would not be anything to talk about here. 

We are talking about what is or isn't healthy about Chansey.

Currently I feel that its usage speaks for itself and that it is an Unhealthy amount of usage.

This usage rate seems to me to get in the way of teambuilding.

I don't think this pokemon itself is incredibly hard to dispatch however but..............

 I do question the following........ if its usage is this high do you have to prepare every team for it in order to win?

Is it putting an unhealthy strain on team building?

I feel that basically, 50% usage means that you are forced to bring something to deal with this particular pokemon to almost every battle.

50% is half of all battles. So you better build to kill Chansey without exception or you won't be winning 50% of the time.

50% by usage statistic. Is that healthy? 

If that remains consistent is that healthy?

If the usage rises is that healthy?

I'm concerned with all of these questions.

 

 

Edited by Hotarubi
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7 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

The cold Truth is I'm Only concerned about this pokemon impacting the tier

 if the Usage persists or stays above 48%  ..... that makes me feel like its just too much Chansey......

I'm not interested to outright ban everything in the tier, however If something is over centralizing and taking over I don't see that as healthy.

I want healthy balance and good fun fair competition.

I just can't help but question the impact its having if one single pokemon is used in more than half the battles that happen...

In some way this feels stale and that its putting limitations on a vast list of possible outcomes and strategies available to the player.

I feel that for the health of the meta variety when it comes to strategy should flourish the most. For the sake of Healthy Competition.

If anything is putting limitations on a vast majority of other things and doing so in an oppressing way.

I think that things whatever it may be is unhealthy....  In this case the thing that we are discussing is Chansey.

If it wasn't being so abused and exploited in usage  honestly there would not be anything to talk about here. 

We are talking about what is or isn't healthy about Chansey.

Currently I feel that its usage speaks for itself and that it is an Unhealthy amount of usage.

This usage rate seems to me to get in the way of teambuilding.

I don't think this pokemon itself is incredibly hard to dispatch however but..............

 I do question the following........ if its usage is this high do you have to prepare every team for it in order to win?

Is it putting an unhealthy strain on team building?

I feel that basically, 50% usage means that you are forced to bring something to deal with this particular pokemon to almost every battle.

50% is half of all battles. So you better build to kill Chansey without exception or you won't be winning 50% of the time.

50% by usage statistic. Is that healthy? 

If that remains consistent is that healthy?

If the usage rises is that healthy?

I'm concerned with all of these questions.

 

 

If Chansey does get banned, wouldn't pokemon like P2 have a usage that high due to the lack of spdef walls available? This might lead to an endless cycle. Going by usage isn't always accurate

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Just now, kevola said:

If Chansey does get banned, wouldn't pokemon like P2 have a usage that high due to the lack of spdef walls available? This might lead to an endless cycle. Going by usage isn't always accurate

No other pokemon offers the exploit that Chansey does. 

Hence why its usage is so high.

I don't think anyone is safe to make the bet that "ONE" pokemon will replace it. I think more so that it would force people to be creative when it comes to walling rather than relying on the safe option that you store.

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9 minutes ago, Kanzo said:

trick, Jolteon/venu growth, Rhydon, NC/TRACE pokes, King/Queen (still in progress for some people to have a nice moveset for OU or team) 

 

This all ^ is enough for many competitive veterans to think twice whatever moveset to bring let alone the pressure to use shud chulll or no. 


 Enough competitive veterans player know all those movesets and we all know that chansey CAN be exploitable... but its very hard to exploit chansey, chansey can do its work even when tricked (who wins? choice bander chansey or leftovers zam? obviusly chansey)... and you have to pay for all those strategies (most special users are restricted to have  a max of 2 attacks moves if they want to "exploit" chansey)

  You are making it sound like its super easy to exploit and using chansey is a big risk, NO, chansey still is the safest pokemon in OU

about the revenge kills chain, Ive played a lot of matchs where there were no chansey... that never happened... and its not like I cant make a defensive team withouth chansey either...

PS: just a question, why you think the biggest problem when chansey is gonna will be zam and rain teams? you never mentioned Starmie wich is way better that those

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1 hour ago, Hotarubi said:

No other pokemon offers the exploit that Chansey does. 

Hence why its usage is so high.

I don't think anyone is safe to make the bet that "ONE" pokemon will replace it. I think more so that it would force people to be creative when it comes to walling rather than relying on the safe option that you store.

What exactly do you mean by exploit? 

I never said one Pokemon would. I meant usage of certain Pokemon could increase to the extent that there would be a similar usage to what chansay has now.

Creativity can only take you so far when it comes to these things 

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First of all I should mention that the Chansey family are my most disliked mons so my post might be a little biased. I don't just hate Chansey, I absolutely loathe it and its evolution with an autistic rage only a neckbeard who has been playing this game competitively for 12 years can muster. I honest to god believe this thing is the biggest mistake Gamefreak has made in terms of game design. Even worse than evasion, even worse than mega Gengar/Mence/Kang/Rayquaza, even worse than Shadow Tag and even worse than Talonflame whose sole existence denied three entire types and speed boosters in general the possibility to sweep.
She's a blanket check to all special attackers, with in built counters to status induction, and on top of that functions amazingly as both a cleric with Wish and Heal Bell and as a status inducer with Toxic and Thunder Wave, on top of that she can deal a solid 50 damage to ANYTHING no matter their defenses with Seismic Toss or bait weaker physical attackers that might not KO her with Counter and remove them from the game.

 

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How do you feel Chansey’s presence in OU affects teambuilding and duel progression?


I've been on and off Pokemmo for the past few months, I recently came back and noticed one thing, if they were on a favorable matchup that'd normally force a switch every special sweeper that could Trick would Trick their choice item into whatever switched into them. Be it Starmie, Alakazam, Slowbro or Espeon, the first thing they would do was Trick their choice item and pray that the opponent switched into Chansey. That speaks volumes of how influential Chansey is, her 50% usage means that these Trick leaps of faith are incredibly likely to work. This could be argued as a skillful play by the Trick users, they predict their opponent to switch into their Chansey and nail her, surely this will cripple her, they stopped the tumor from sitting on their special sweepers forever while supporting the rest of her team, now they can switch out and play the rest of the game! However I, as a person who refuses to use Canceregg and instead use Umbreon this is simply a free kill with Pursuit and even if the trickster survives, due to how common this leap of faith is I've opted for use Macho Brace on my Umbreon so their trickster now is either dead, or so slow my Blaziken and Venusaur don't have to worry if they switch into them.

Sadly even after tricking the choice item, this doesn't stop Chansey from being an incredibly useful pivot against most special attackers. Toxic and Thunder Wave remove any boosting Espeons, Slowbros and Alakazams as well as other walls/bulky pokemon that aren't fortunate enough to have Heal Bell or Rest, Thunder Wave heavily limits Venusaur and speedier pokemon that might break through her, Seismic Toss is still solid damage against anything switching in without recovery and she can still perform clerical duties with Heal Bell, so even if the leap of faith or "outplay" depending on your point of view pays off, she's not effectively useless because of it. I should also mention that while she's limited to one move, she takes so little damage from special moves that switching a few times into them and using one of those switches to heal up is perfectly viable even if it's technically a big momentum sink.

So basically:
Teambuilding is heavily limited to special attackers that either provide enough utility to support the rest of the team or special attackers that can trick their choice item on the switch, basically "all out attackers" are really rare unlike in the case of physical attackers.

Due to Chansey's status as a blanket check, aka something that generally walls every special attacker, it's fairly easy to pair her up with Pokemon that cover her obvious weaknesses and form. Skarmbliss (Which should be renamed Skarmsey due to Eviolite in later gens and the current mmo meta) is a core used from gen 2 to this day in gen 7 due to how effective it is, in a game with so much power creep that's insane. Pokemon like Weezing and Dusclops also provide amazing walling potential and are easy to fit into any team, so to have a great defensive core you just need Chansey to cover all your special attacking needs and then one or two Pokemon that can protect from 90% of physical attackers.
This also puts a lot of pressure on physical attackers as they'd need to run something to hit these walls hard enough on the switch until they are gone from the game and they can target Chansey, meanwhile no special attacker can deal enough damage to Chansey to the point where they can take it down and eventually put the opposing physical walls down. Essentially what I mean is the moment you remove the opponent's physical attackers, if you have a Chansey you automatically win unless you're dealing with Venusaur, on the other side Physical attackers can eventually break through Weezing/Skarmory/Dusclops/Arcanine.
The alternative for teambuilding is to run a hybrid attacker that can lure these physical walls by hitting them with special attacks and then eventually nail the Chansey.

It doesn't help that she's cheap as fuck to breed requiring only 3 IVs and a nature.

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 Does Chansey’s presence in OU inhibit or encourage skillful plays?


Inhibit, it's way too easy to fit into any team, it's versatile enough that you don't know what to switch into it without being crippled in one way or another. Bulky enough to cover an entire attacking type, bulky enough to not worry about walls attacking it (or statusing it), bulky enough to not worry about minor physical attackers attacking it and bulky enough to use Counter on physical attackers that don't one shot it for an effective trade or what could possibly be a win condition. Forces special attackers to do leaps of faith to remove her and stuff like Trapinch sees usage simply because it can remove her (Assuming she isn't one step ahead of the curv and runs Shed Shell).
If "skillful plays" imply "Oh! I switched my physical attacker in without getting crippled by status and then boosted!" or "I tricc her" then yes she encourages skillful play, but she also encourages everyone running bulky balance teams with her in the middle 50% of the time and encourages people to just spam physical attacks until the opposing physical walls are beaten into a bloody pulp.

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Unskillful endless chains of revenge killing!


Won't happen. As a person who doesn't use Chansey at all I have never seen this happen, special attackers have more checks than just Chansey and they don't need to have as much role compression as her.

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Guts users my man


Don't like being paralyzed and can usually be walled by stuff accompanying Chansey

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your('re) bad if you can't deal with Chansey and want it banned!!!!!


I can deal with Chansey just fine, the same way I was able to deal with Snorlax just fine and the same way I'd be able to deal with any Uber (except Mence, that thing would plow me) easily if I had to bother.

Quote

>But a lot of stuff would be unleashed free if she was banned and I don't know how to counter all of them!


Well bud, those are your team building skills being put to the test, you ought a be skillful enough to build a team that doesn't get plowed by newcomer mons, unless you're admitting to being unskillful enough to use Chansey as a crutch to get past most things.

 

Well at the end of the day after venting this much I'd like to ask, WHEN THE FUCK ARE WE GETTING AN UBERS QUEUE SO WE CAN STOP TREATING GETTING BANNED TO UBERS LIKE BEING SENT TO THE SHADOW REALM? A LOT OF PEOPLE WANNA USE THESE MONS DAMMIT.


Finally my belief regarding ban or no ban is don't ban her, lol machop used mega punch, dead egg much?? i just boost on her and win, nooblords, literally nothing that's currently UU would rise to OU if she's gone anyways you'd just see more eruption typlosion spam and maybe more offensive starmies

Edited by suigin
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35 minutes ago, Bilburt said:

A chansey ban would give kanga an opportunity to shine

Ive been curious to see how kanga would do in OU

Like @Aerun it disappointed me in every possible way

 

It's decent against mild sp.attackers like bulky timid starmie or haunter, its ability make it a good pivot against satk walls like milotic which is a plus, it can also carry firepunch to avoid getting set up on by forretress

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20 minutes ago, Draekyn said:

Like @Aerun it disappointed me in every possible way

 

 

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It's decent against mild sp.attackers like bulky timid starmie or haunter, its ability make it a good pivot against satk walls like milotic which is a plus, it can also carry firepunch to avoid getting set up on by forretress

 

It get eq and crunch too both counter most spatkers if not all

LO starmie surf is a 3hko

i think kanga could be really decent

Edited by Bilburt
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This pokemon for me makes this tier very competitive since several players have problems with chansey.
Many complain that they can not kill it but 1vs1
Venasaur Vs Chansey, Venasaur (Gigadrenado, Leech Seed,
Growth, Sludge Bomb) Chansey (Wish the Soft-Boiled, Protect,
Move Sismic) Win Venasaur Special. It is checking (and I happened: v) and obviously the physical sweepers and choice band.
Without chansey some special sweepers could kill an entire team like Jolteon, Alakazam, Espeon, Venasaur, Typloshion, Starmie,
Haunter ETC
These gentlemen could win a team if not for
"Chansey"
Thank you for your attention. Greetings

 

E017EtO.png

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23 hours ago, Lampone1 said:

This pokemon for me makes this tier very competitive since several players have problems with chansey.
Many complain that they can not kill it but 1vs1
Venasaur Vs Chansey, Venasaur (Gigadrenado, Leech Seed,
Growth, Sludge Bomb) Chansey (Wish the Soft-Boiled, Protect,
Move Sismic) Win Venasaur Special. It is checking (and I happened: v) and obviously the physical sweepers and choice band.
Without chansey some special sweepers could kill an entire team like Jolteon, Alakazam, Espeon, Venasaur, Typloshion, Starmie,
Haunter ETC
These gentlemen could win a team if not for
"Chansey"
Thank you for your attention. Greetings

 

E017EtO.png

>Jolteon

Checked by Scarf Flygon, Swampert, Venusaur, Porygon2, Lanturn, Quagsire, Steelix, Cradily

>Haunter

Checked by Umbreon, Houndoom, Porygon 2, Anything with pursuit really, Heracross, Aerodactyl, Metagross, Slaking, Tauros, and Chansey doesn't even wall it. Be careful with WoW though.

>Alakazam

Almost the same as Haunter, after one CM it does beat Metagross with HP fire though.

>Espeon

It's a shitty, more expensive Alakazam so it gets checked by the same things.

>Venusaur

Your argument was that it beat Chansey anyways so I don't get your post

>Typlosion

Walled by bulky fire types, water types and flash fire users, gets outsped by quite a bit once his eruption gets put down he's somewhat easier to deal with.

>Starmie

Due to its ridiculous coverage it's probably the only one who will be way harder to deal with but even then Porygon 2 and Umbreon should be able to nail it.


 

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1 hour ago, codylramey said:

If chansey was actually required for teams to keep spcl attackers in check then wouldnt teams that dont use her get rekt by spcl attackers most of the time?

no,because even if you don't run chansey,your opponent isn't going to use 4 brainless special sweepers because you actually can run chansey, idk if you undesrtand what I mean. The sole presence of chansey in the meta is enouph to keep keep special poks in check

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30 minutes ago, Kanzo said:

Not only checks but keeps the tier balanced and healthy. Im pretty sure whatever the fuck team u been using without chansey gets rekt by some special sweeper and ur only answer is revenge killing it or u have a shitty wall just for that thing in there.

Im not speaking specifically of my team. But i do have one wall but thats for gyaradose. Sometimes i do have to revenge kill things but most of the time predicting a move and sending in the appropriate mon allows me to keep things in check until its sweeping time. I have also came across all of the spcl sweepers listed in this thread, even the rain mons, and have the tools to successfully dispose of them and win the match if i play better than the other person (in matchmaking thats not hard). 

 

37 minutes ago, xilias said:

no,because even if you don't run chansey,your opponent isn't going to use 4 brainless special sweepers because you actually can run chansey, idk if you undesrtand what I mean. The sole presence of chansey in the meta is enouph to keep keep special poks in check

I understand your point, the meta is different bc chansey is around so ppl who dont run her dont have to worry about spcl sweepers as much. But a good defensive core can still keep you in a good position. There are combinations of things like dusclopse, porygon, ludicolo, gardivor, umbreon hell even lanturn can work in OU that can check/counter a team built on spcl sweepers. At least thats the way i see it. Im not for a chansey ban i just think that you guys saying that spcl attackers will run amok is wrong. It was said during the snorlax and blissy ban when they were first up for discussion and it was wrong then and i think it will be wrong now.

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All here use chansey except for codylramey and me? :v

 

I have never got problems with special sweepers without using Chansey, so i dont matter if it goes ubers or not...but maybe if the people couldnt use Chansey all begin using more special sweepers and that would be probable a problem, idk

Edited by soyhector
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If there are people coming forward and saying they don't need Chansey on their team to handle special attackers, it begs the question of is Chansey really that centralizing then? I know it's an awful small sample size but obviously these folks don't feel like they're at a disadvantage by not using the old blob.

 

Just something to consider I guess, I'd still consider myself on the fence in this discussion. I'd like to hear more comp players come forth and answer this question - do you feel like you HAVE to run Chansey? 

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14 hours ago, Kanzo said:

So for example to check Jolteon u use scarf flygon and u think u can switch in whenever and whatever u want?

 

That's why I said Check and not Counter, dear.

Here's a lesson for you. A Check is something that would beat whatever is out against it if it switches in safely, a Counter is something that can switch into any of their moves and beat it. So unless that Jolteon is behind a sub scarf Flygon would check it.

And most of the stuff you mentioned besides Nidoking who absolutely needs superpower and LO to beat her gets nailed by a status effect they won't like so they aren't safe counters.

Sounds to me that you're using Chansey as a crutch.

5 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

If there are people coming forward and saying they don't need Chansey on their team to handle special attackers, it begs the question of is Chansey really that centralizing then? I know it's an awful small sample size but obviously these folks don't feel like they're at a disadvantage by not using the old blob.

 

Just something to consider I guess, I'd still consider myself on the fence in this discussion. I'd like to hear more comp players come forth and answer this question - do you feel like you HAVE to run Chansey? 

I don't run Chansey because it's my most disliked Pokemon however I can safely say that there's no reason why I shouldn't run it. It's not that I HAVE to run it but there's simply no reason why someone shouldn't run it. It provides all the utility one might want and it's a mindless blanket check to all special attackers.

 

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3 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Just something to consider I guess, I'd still consider myself on the fence in this discussion. I'd like to hear more comp players come forth and answer this question - do you feel like you HAVE to run Chansey? 

I haven't played that much recently but from what I've experienced myself is that it's just too good not to use. I mean sure I am able to get around without using Chansey, but running Chansey has no risks and does the job better than anyone else in the tier atm. I think getting rid of Chansey wouldn't ruin the tier necessarily. It's just that people are so used to having this fat blob and no one has a reason not to use it because it is good at what it does. Im really split aswell myself. But that's just a small thing I had in mind.

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