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OU Viability Thread


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Firstly, a shout out to @Robofiend for being the OG of this thread, unfortunately he isn't active these days and asks for someone else to do it. We've not had an updated OU Viability Rankings thread for a while because of his inactivity and I think it's a very useful thread, especially because it's OU which is by far the most played tier.

 

Like other threads of this nature, this is a general thread, meaning we won't call things a Defensive S Rank or an Offensive S Rank or anything weird like that. If you don't know what an S Rank is, you should read below.

 

Discussion is always welcomed and appreciated as this is a community thread where I listen to everyone input rather than doing it by myself which probably would be biased. Please be respectful of people(even if they're bad/dumb). Walls of text are welcome as long as other people don't need to parse it in order to see your points. For example:

 

Aerodactyl for A Rank: stuff

 

Is a good format.

 

"Well Aerodactyl is good but I don't know if it's really S. It gets walled by Skarmory so maybe it's B? I dunno I guess probably A though because it's really fast"

 

Is bad, don't do it.

 

 

 

PokeMMO OU Viability Ranking

 

(in no order whatsoever)

(definitions of each rank blatantly stolen borrowed from Smogon)

 

S RankReserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the OU metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. They are low risk involved and high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws or flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon define the metagame.

 

S Rank:

Metagross

Chansey

 

A RankReserved for Pokemon that are strong in the OU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

 

A+ Rank:

Blaziken

Venusaur

Gyarados

Heracross

Starmie

 

A Rank:

Slowbro

Milotic

Forretress

Flygon

Weezing

Jolteon

Skarmory

Porygon2

 

B RankThese Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. These Pokemon exert an above average presence in the metagame.

 

B+ Rank:

Magneton

Aerodactyl

Ursaring

Arcanine

Gardevoir

Charizard

Tauros

Swampert

Typhlosion

Vaporeon

Houndoom

Kingdra

Zangoose

 

B  Rank:

Alakazam

Espeon

Dusclops

Linoone

Ludicolo

Rhydon

Sceptile

Medicham

 

C RankReserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the metagame.

 

C Rank:

Machamp

Dodrio

Slaking

Marowak

Umbreon

 

D RankReserved for Pokemon that are very mediocre in the OU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.

 

D Rank:

Edited by KaynineXL
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Firstly, I want to start from the top and ask you guys about S rank. Which Pokemon deserve to be discussed in that particular rank? For me, I think Metagross, Venusaur, Chansey are the only 3 possible ones.

 

Me personally, I think Metagross is probably S rank. Starting of with its typing which is really good, immunity to toxic, resisting so many attack types with amazing natural bulk and then we look at its amazing ability along with a great moveset, not to mention its insane attack stat. It's just got everything needed to be great in the OU meta without being too much for walls to handle.

 

Venusaur I think could possibly be S rank, but not quite for me. It can be great in the right circumstances but I feel like those circumstances aren't common enough to give it S rank. Twave Chansey cripples it which is fairly common due to Venusaur being so heavily used and then you have a fair amount of common offensive Pokemon that can revenge(or sorta switch in with risk) such as Metagross, Blaziken, Flygon, Starmie. There's been some new Pokemon that have started to be used because of Venusaur unique position in OU, some of them being Tentacruel and Crobat, both has stamped their mark in OU and both are good and have other uses outside of Venusaur which I think is important because these stop Venusaur. If I had to give it a rank, I think A+ would be most suitable, but I'm interested to hear what you guys say.

 

Chansey is always going to be the most dominant special wall while Snorlax is not here. Its incredible bulk means it has no problem with any special attackers(other than sometimes Jolt/Venusaur depending on moveset). Chansey has all the tools needed to be an excellent support Pokemon and has been threatened to be banned in the past because of this. We now have Shed Hull which means Trapinch isn't so reliable even though Leftovers are so efficient on Chansey. I'm really divided on this, I can't decide if this would be A+ or S.

 

Let me here your thoughts on those 3 above for my nominated S rank Pokemon. Do you think there are any more that deserve to be put in the spotlight? Let me know. (I did read the last comments on the other OU Viability Thread and I will take that into account. We'll talk about Blaziken later, but for me A/A+, not S, if you disagree say so now)

Edited by KaynineXL
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33 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

Firstly, I want to start from the top and ask you guys about S rank. Which Pokemon deserve to be discussed in that particular rank? For me, I think Metagross, Venusaur, Chansey are the only 3 possibly ones.

 

Me personally, I think Metagross is probably S rank. Starting of with its typing which is really good, immunity to toxic, resisting so many attack types with amazing natural bulk and then we look at its amazing ability along with a great moveset, not to mention its insane attack stat. It's just got everything needed to be great in the OU meta without being too much for walls to handle.

 

Venusaur I think could possibly be S rank, but not quite for me. It can be great in the right circumstances but I feel like those circumstances aren't common enough to give it S rank. Twave Chansey cripples it which is fairly common due to Venusaur being so heavily used and then you have a fair amount of common offensive Pokemon that can revenge(or sorta switch in with risk) such as Metagross, Blaziken, Flygon, Starmie. There's been some new Pokemon that have started to be used because of Venusaur unique position in OU, some of them being Tentacruel and Crobat, both has stamped their mark in OU and both are good and have other uses outside of Venusaur which I think is important because these stop Venusaur. If I had to give it a rank, I think A+ would be most suitable, but I'm interested to hear what you guys say.

 

Chansey is always going to be the most dominant special wall while Snorlax is not here. Its incredible bulk means it has no problem with any special attackers(other than sometimes Jolt/Venusaur depending on moveset). Chansey has all the tools needed to be an excellent support Pokemon and has been threatened to be banned in the past because of this. We now have Shed Hull which means Trapinch isn't so reliable even though Leftovers are so efficient on Chansey. I'm really divided on this, I can't decide if this would be A+ or S.

 

Let me here your thoughts on those 3 above for my nominated S rank Pokemon. Do you think there are any more that deserve to be put in the spotlight? Let me know. (I did read the last comments on the other OU Viability Thread and I will take that into account. We'll talk about Blaziken later, but for me A/A+, not S, if you disagree say so now)

Imo all 3 should be S rank or none. If you read the description of S rank they totally fit. Milotic, starmie and gyarados for a+ since they are also pillars of this meta, but still not defining it like the 3 above

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Metagross surely is "S" rank. With it's typing it has tons of switch-ins and it will be always useful during the match. Lots of viable sets, ability to disable a physical wall (Milo/ Forret/ Skarm etc etc). The only downside is that it might get trapped by Magneton but look at it's usage.

 

I do belive Venusaur is "S". I understand the reasons why you don't see it the way I do, but neither Crobat nor Tenta are relevant enough to be a reason of a lower rank for the poke itself, those pokes are still UU by usage and I think only Tenta is used often enough to become OU next usage update. The revenge argument isn't very relevant honestly- every pokemon can be revenged, and if Venusaur is getting revenged, then it already has done it's job. Venusaur currently is the #4 most used OU poke and I belive it's still on the rise- look, even @Tranzmaster wants one. If Tranz wants it, it must be good

 

And yeah Chansey S.

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I feel that Chansey is S. I want to not call it S, but what comes to meta-centralization, well.. Chansey is the OU metagame. Everything in OU has got to do with Chansey in some way. Pokemon either in some way support Chansey (i.e. viable physical walls Weezing/Milotic/Skarmory) or have the ability to break Chansey. All the offensive Pokemon are basically required these days to have a way to beat Chansey. Chansey is the reason why Trick isn't an exception but the rule in highest level of OU play. Chansey is the reason why people call a Venusaur a top tier mon. The lower you go in OU usage the more powerful Pokemon you see there but often underperform against Chansey or its main supporters.

 

Chansey is the metagame.

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If Metagross is S rank, Gyarados should perhaps be too. It also have an amazing typing - paired with a defensive ability - that allows Gyarados to switch on many threaths. Thanks to its well distributed stats and its movepool, Gyarados is very versatile and can perform various roles quite well. In terms of viability, I don't see much difference between Gyarados and Metagross. They are metadefining to the same extant imo.

 

Chansey S rank for sure.

Venusaur more A+ than S, but S would still be fair imo.

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Chansey should be S for sure.

It's a blanket check to every special attacker and while it melts to some strong physical attacks others simply cannot break through its massive hp and can be destroyed by Counter.

Got a wall or a set up bulky special sweeper? She can Toxic

Got a speedy special sweeper or sweeper in general that switches into her? She can Thunder Wave

And on top of being a status spreader and a physical wall she's also a great Cleric who can pass wishes and heal status.

And after all that she still deals a solid amount of damage with Seismic Toss which guarantees to break subs.

 

There's a reason why she's on literally every team and that's because she can check every special attacker and provide a ton of utility without putting much effort into it. She's also cheap as fuck to breed needing only 3 ivs to be 31.

 

On top of that I insist that Blaziken should be S tier due to his lack of counters and his ability to easily sweep unprepared teams.

Edited by suigin
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I would also ask about moving down a lot of pokes. Slowbro definietly isn't "A", Milotic is A, MAYBE A+, Luis is right about Ursa as well and Kingdra not "A" either

3 hours ago, pachima said:

Wouldnt dodrio now be more similar to tauros?

Yeah, it possibly is- Tauros has intimidate, much better bulk and EQ (and my favourite Rain Dance + Thunder + Surf, op) while Dodrio has Dual Stab, Low Kick and more atk. Tough to say.

 

13 minutes ago, suigin said:

On top of that I insist that Blaziken should be S tier due to his lack of counters and his ability to easily sweep unprepared teams.

With heavy presence of Starmie, which counters Blaziken to a huge degree, Arcanine, Milotic and Gyarados, I really can't see Blaziken as "S".

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4 hours ago, KaynineXL said:

Firstly, I want to start from the top and ask you guys about S rank. Which Pokemon deserve to be discussed in that particular rank? For me, I think Metagross, Venusaur, Chansey are the only 3 possible ones.

 

Me personally, I think Metagross is probably S rank. Starting of with its typing which is really good, immunity to toxic, resisting so many attack types with amazing natural bulk and then we look at its amazing ability along with a great moveset, not to mention its insane attack stat. It's just got everything needed to be great in the OU meta without being too much for walls to handle.

 

Venusaur I think could possibly be S rank, but not quite for me. It can be great in the right circumstances but I feel like those circumstances aren't common enough to give it S rank. Twave Chansey cripples it which is fairly common due to Venusaur being so heavily used and then you have a fair amount of common offensive Pokemon that can revenge(or sorta switch in with risk) such as Metagross, Blaziken, Flygon, Starmie. There's been some new Pokemon that have started to be used because of Venusaur unique position in OU, some of them being Tentacruel and Crobat, both has stamped their mark in OU and both are good and have other uses outside of Venusaur which I think is important because these stop Venusaur. If I had to give it a rank, I think A+ would be most suitable, but I'm interested to hear what you guys say.

 

Chansey is always going to be the most dominant special wall while Snorlax is not here. Its incredible bulk means it has no problem with any special attackers(other than sometimes Jolt/Venusaur depending on moveset). Chansey has all the tools needed to be an excellent support Pokemon and has been threatened to be banned in the past because of this. We now have Shed Hull which means Trapinch isn't so reliable even though Leftovers are so efficient on Chansey. I'm really divided on this, I can't decide if this would be A+ or S.

 

Let me here your thoughts on those 3 above for my nominated S rank Pokemon. Do you think there are any more that deserve to be put in the spotlight? Let me know. (I did read the last comments on the other OU Viability Thread and I will take that into account. We'll talk about Blaziken later, but for me A/A+, not S, if you disagree say so now)

KaynineXL for Tier List Council 2017!

 

9f0d8bcc546b8fb93e4d6b94f852831e.gif

Metagross may be S ranked, but it can be dealt with. Metagross has prompted some people to run arcanine and charizard more often.

Spoiler

There were several complaints about people making blanket statements without calcs, so here they are...

29cb60bb476d8a69b03c5fdc69a028da.png

106289ebd5d18df8aa66ab491ad93d70.png

3aa395ed0d76ec9d0d8738a82022ca5d.gif

I agree that Venusaur is not such a threat. There are several pokemon on the top of my head that counter a Venusaur: Charizard, Blazekin, Arcanine, and espeon. If your afraid of a Venusaur, you should invest in one of the comps I listed.

 

3eea78587f77dd0d00b6b51ead6903df.gif

If I can help Kaynine make a decision on this, I'll put my thought about Chansey out there. Lets test ban it. For the Chansey Lawyers arguing against this, Kaynine has made a case for a test ban. Its just too secure and in tournaments, your not suppose to feel secure. Tournaments are suppose to be a place where anything goes, but Chansey throws that out the window. I came up with a possible solution for the absence of the pink blob of doom, Porygon 2. Porygon 2 is not as bulky as Chansey, but it can do some work. Porygon 2 is not really much of a certain because it can be knocked out eventually and it won't stall the daylights out of you. 

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1 hour ago, Bestfriends said:

KaynineXL for Tier List Council 2017!

 

9f0d8bcc546b8fb93e4d6b94f852831e.gif

Metagross may be S ranked, but it can be dealt with. Metagross has prompted some people to run arcanine and charizard more often.

  Reveal hidden contents

There were several complaints about people making blanket statements without calcs, so here they are...

29cb60bb476d8a69b03c5fdc69a028da.png

106289ebd5d18df8aa66ab491ad93d70.png

3aa395ed0d76ec9d0d8738a82022ca5d.gif

I agree that Venusaur is not such a threat. There are several pokemon on the top of my head that counter a Venusaur: Charizard, Blazekin, Arcanine, and espeon. If your afraid of a Venusaur, you should invest in one of the comps I listed.

 

3eea78587f77dd0d00b6b51ead6903df.gif

If I can help Kaynine make a decision on this, I'll put my thought about Chansey out there. Lets test ban it. For the Chansey Lawyers arguing against this, Kaynine has made a case for a test ban. Its just too secure and in tournaments, your not suppose to feel secure. Tournaments are suppose to be a place where anything goes, but Chansey throws that out the window. I came up with a possible solution for the absence of the pink blob of doom, Porygon 2. Porygon 2 is not as bulky as Chansey, but it can do some work. Porygon 2 is not really much of a certain because it can be knocked out eventually and it won't stall the daylights out of you. 

 

Chansey is just annoying to deal with, but not hard at all. if she gets banned, snorlax would probably return to OU which is something we dont want.

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2 hours ago, gbwead said:

If Metagross is S rank, Gyarados should perhaps be too. It also have an amazing typing - paired with a defensive ability - that allows Gyarados to switch on many threaths. Thanks to its well distributed stats and its movepool, Gyarados is very versatile and can perform various roles quite well. In terms of viability, I don't see much difference between Gyarados and Metagross. They are metadefining to the same extant imo.

 

Gyarados has much more hard counters that don't even need much prediction like milotic, cloyster, slowbro, and weezing, and to a certain degree venusaur, skarmory, other gyarados and dusclops. Metagross is so much more hard to counter and needs prediction because (especially cb version) it can 2hko almost anything.

 

55 minutes ago, Bestfriends said:

 

I agree that Venusaur is not such a threat. There are several pokemon on the top of my head that counter a Venusaur: Charizard, Blazekin, Arcanine, and espeon. If your afraid of a Venusaur, you should invest in one of the comps I listed.

 

None of the pokemon you've listed can safely switch in on a sludge bomb, especially if it poisons (30%)

 

1 hour ago, Bestfriends said:

 

 

3eea78587f77dd0d00b6b51ead6903df.gif

If I can help Kaynine make a decision on this, I'll put my thought about Chansey out there. Lets test ban it. For the Chansey Lawyers arguing against this, Kaynine has made a case for a test ban. Its just too secure and in tournaments, your not suppose to feel secure. Tournaments are suppose to be a place where anything goes, but Chansey throws that out the window. I came up with a possible solution for the absence of the pink blob of doom, Porygon 2. Porygon 2 is not as bulky as Chansey, but it can do some work. Porygon 2 is not really much of a certain because it can be knocked out eventually and it won't stall the daylights out of you. 

Secure in tournaments? With trick everywhere, trapinch, growth users and mixed sweepers? Lmao

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17 minutes ago, Erayne said:

Gyarados has much more hard counters that don't even need much prediction like milotic, cloyster, slowbro, and weezing, and to a certain degree venusaur, skarmory, other gyarados and dusclops. Metagross is so much more hard to counter and needs prediction because (especially cb version) it can 2hko almost anything.

Metagross also have well known counters like Swampert, Forretress, Ludicolo, Slowbro and Arcanine to some extent. Metagross can manage these walls depending on the moveset it runs, but the same could be said about Gyarados and the hard counters you mentionned. Gyarados is not always played offensive. I have seen defensive Gyarados with Toxic or Twave that would destroy these counters. Tbolt Gyarados was also very popular when Cloyster was played more in OU. 

 

CB Gyarados is very dangerous too. For instance, if we look at Slowbro that is a counter to both Metagross and Gyarados, Slowbro takes more dmg from Crunch CB Gyarados than Tpunch CB Metagross:

252+ Atk Choice Band Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 100-118 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 98-116 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 48.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

 

Edited by gbwead
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aero B / B+
kingdra B+
garde B
pory2 B+
sceptile B+
slaking B / B+

haunter B+

umbreon B

tauros B+

blaziken B+

doom B / B+

breelom B+

espeon B

ferali B

machamp B

zam B

jolteon B

ludi B

medicham B / B+

skar B+

ursa B+
slowbro B+ / A

arca B+

magne B+ / A

milotic B+

 

gyara A+

hera A+

 

typlo B+ / A

forre A

flygon A

weez A

 

chansey s

starmie s

meta s
venusaur s

marowak SS  coz i like it

 

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Sorry guys, this is literally just a complete copy of Robofiends old one so any mistakes or placements that seem bizarre right now will be worked on. I thought it would be best to copy and paste then work from the top but I can just remove everything and work on a fresh list.

 

5 hours ago, RysPicz said:

Metagross surely is "S" rank. With it's typing it has tons of switch-ins and it will be always useful during the match. Lots of viable sets, ability to disable a physical wall (Milo/ Forret/ Skarm etc etc). The only downside is that it might get trapped by Magneton but look at it's usage.

 

I do belive Venusaur is "S". I understand the reasons why you don't see it the way I do, but neither Crobat nor Tenta are relevant enough to be a reason of a lower rank for the poke itself, those pokes are still UU by usage and I think only Tenta is used often enough to become OU next usage update. The revenge argument isn't very relevant honestly- every pokemon can be revenged, and if Venusaur is getting revenged, then it already has done it's job. Venusaur currently is the #4 most used OU poke and I belive it's still on the rise- look, even @Tranzmaster wants one. If Tranz wants it, it must be good

 

And yeah Chansey S.

Yeh, the revenge part of my debate was probably not a good one considering your reasoning's but I feel like Venusaur isn't as sound coming in on stuff when you compare it to another S rank Metagross. I'l give this some more time to debate, I'm a bit divided.

 

3 hours ago, gbwead said:

If Metagross is S rank, Gyarados should perhaps be too. It also have an amazing typing - paired with a defensive ability - that allows Gyarados to switch on many threaths. Thanks to its well distributed stats and its movepool, Gyarados is very versatile and can perform various roles quite well. In terms of viability, I don't see much difference between Gyarados and Metagross. They are metadefining to the same extant imo.

 

Chansey S rank for sure.

Venusaur more A+ than S, but S would still be fair imo.

Yeh, I think Gyarados is great because it can play offensive while having great defensive typing and ability with some nice natural bulk, much like Metagross. I agree with everything you say except I feel like Gyarados does have more solid switches as someone said above. Metagross has some good switches but sometimes they don't work, CB sets can hit through the bulky waters and if you ever get +1 with Meteor a lot of the normal switches can start to panic. Metagross has probably more versatility than Gyarados, or rather more punishing versatility? The mixed sets, block toxic sets, trick sets etc. Gyarados on the other hand will likely always lose to HP Elec on bulky waters, and then there's a lot of others that are shaky but still work such as Weezing, Porygon, Gardevoir.

 

1 hour ago, Bestfriends said:

KaynineXL for Tier List Council 2017!

 

9f0d8bcc546b8fb93e4d6b94f852831e.gif

Metagross may be S ranked, but it can be dealt with. Metagross has prompted some people to run arcanine and charizard more often.

  Reveal hidden contents

There were several complaints about people making blanket statements without calcs, so here they are...

29cb60bb476d8a69b03c5fdc69a028da.png

106289ebd5d18df8aa66ab491ad93d70.png

3aa395ed0d76ec9d0d8738a82022ca5d.gif

I agree that Venusaur is not such a threat. There are several pokemon on the top of my head that counter a Venusaur: Charizard, Blazekin, Arcanine, and espeon. If your afraid of a Venusaur, you should invest in one of the comps I listed.

 

3eea78587f77dd0d00b6b51ead6903df.gif

If I can help Kaynine make a decision on this, I'll put my thought about Chansey out there. Lets test ban it. For the Chansey Lawyers arguing against this, Kaynine has made a case for a test ban. Its just too secure and in tournaments, your not suppose to feel secure. Tournaments are suppose to be a place where anything goes, but Chansey throws that out the window. I came up with a possible solution for the absence of the pink blob of doom, Porygon 2. Porygon 2 is not as bulky as Chansey, but it can do some work. Porygon 2 is not really much of a certain because it can be knocked out eventually and it won't stall the daylights out of you. 

This thread isn't really related to Tier Council, and I didn't make a case for Chansey tast ban, I only made a case for Chansey to take S rank. Thanks for your input thought Bestfriends.

 

 

 

EDIT:

Alright, removed all and added a few for now although they can change.

Edited by KaynineXL
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There we go, I updated the list. It's very rough, basically using what others said and my own judgement I made that list. We're still discussing S rank Pokemon, so you if you have anything to say, do so now. Also, I noticed there were no D rank Pokemon before, Umbreon can sit there :) fuck you Umbreon.

Edited by KaynineXL
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