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Gen6 base stat enchancements


RysPicz

Question

I know it was suggested 3 years ago but... well it was 3 years ago.

 

I would like to suggest a base stat update for gen6 standards. I belive it might broaden the list of viable comps hence most of the pokes that get the boost are pretty much useless. I'll save you the hassle and list them here:
 

Spoiler

 

Butterfree: +10 Satk

Beedrill: +10 Atk

Pidgeot: +10 Speed

Pikachu: +10 Sdef

Raichu: +10 Speed

Nidoqueen: +10 Atk

Nidoking: +10 Atk

Wigglytuff: +10 Satk

Vileplume: +10 Satk

Poliwrath: +10 Atk

Alakazam:+10 Sdef

Victreebel: +10 Sdef

Golem: +10 Atk

Ampharos: +10 Def

Bellossom: +10 Def

Azumarill: +10 Satk

Jumpluff: +10 Sdef

Beautifly: +10 Satk

Exploud: +10 Sdef

 

I think that those boosts won't crush our metagame at all, quite the opposite in fact, it will make some pokes more viable than they are right now.

 

Pros:

Well it has to be done someday right?

Increased viability of mentioned pokes

Azu really needs that satk boost

 

Cons:

Risk of shaking the meta (worth it, no risk, no fun)

 

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43 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Azu really needs that satk boost

Beedril needs his attack boost so cb twin needle will be viable :^)

 

On a serious note I totally think this should become a thing. This won't break the meta at all it will only bring more diversity.

 

Edit: It's also a way to fuck up peoples calcs. So its harder to cheat.

Edited by TheChampionMike
Calcing is cheating
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You missed a few. If we go through with the changes at any point in the future, it will either be all of them or none of them - we won't be picking and choosing which ones to buff and which ones not to. Here's a complete list. Also included gen 7's buffs for the sake of discussion. If we implement the gen 6 changes, we may consider gen 7 too.

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________Generation 6

Butterfree: SpAttack 80->90
Beedrill: Attack 80->90
Pidgeot: Speed 91->101
Pikachu: Defense 30->40 + SpDefense 40->50
Raichu: Speed 100->110
Nidoqueen: Attack 82->92
Nidoking: Attack 92->102
Clefable: SpAttack 85->95
Wigglytuff: SpAttack 75->85
Vileplume: SpAttack 100->110
Poliwrath: Attack 85->95
Alakazam: SpDefense 85->95
Victreebel: SpDefense 60->70
Golem: Attack 110->120
Ampharos: Defense 75->85
Bellossom: Defense 85->95
Azumarill: SpAttack 50->60
Jumpluff: SpDefense 85->95
Beautifly: SpAttack 90->100
Exploud: SpDefense 63->73

_____________________________________________________________________Generation 7

Arbok: Attack 85->95
Ariados: SpDefense 60->70
Chimecho: HP 65->75 + Def 85->95 + SpDef 85->95
Corsola: HP 55->65 + Def 85->95 + SpDef 85->95
Delcatty: Speed 70->90
Dodrio: Speed 100->110
Dugtrio: Attack 80->100
Electrode: Speed 140->150
Exeggutor: SpDefense 65->75
Farfetch'd: Attack 65->90
Illumise: Defense 55->75 + SpDefense 75->85
Lunatone: HP 70->90
Magcargo: HP 50->60 + SpAttack 80->90
Mantine: HP 65->85
Masquerain: SpAttack 80->100 + Speed 60->80
Noctowl: SpAttack 76->86
Pelipper: SpAttack 85->95
Qwilfish: Defense 75->85

Solrock: HP 70->90
Swellow: SpAttack 50->75
Volbeat: Defense 55->75 + SpDefense 75->85

 

Edited by RacheLucario
Added Solrock
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33 minutes ago, RacheLucario said:

You missed a few. If we go through with the changes at any point in the future, it will either be all of them or none of them - we won't be picking and choosing which ones to buff and which ones not to. Here's a complete list. Also included gen 7's buffs for the sake of discussion. If we implement the gen 6 changes, we may consider gen 7 too.

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________Generation 6

Butterfree: SpAttack 80->90
Beedrill: Attack 80->90
Pidgeot: Speed 91->101
Pikachu: Defense 30->40 + SpDefense 40->50
Raichu: Speed 100->110
Nidoqueen: Attack 82->92
Nidoking: Attack 92->102
Clefable: SpAttack 85->95
Wigglytuff: SpAttack 75->85
Vileplume: SpAttack 100->110
Poliwrath: Attack 85->95
Alakazam: SpDefense 85->95
Victreebel: SpDefense 60->70
Golem: Attack 110->120
Ampharos: Defense 75->85
Bellossom: Defense 85->95
Azumarill: SpAttack 50->60
Jumpluff: SpDefense 85->95
Beautifly: SpAttack 90->100
Exploud: SpDefense 63->73

_____________________________________________________________________Generation 7

Arbok: Attack 85->95
Ariados: SpDefense 60->70
Chimecho: HP 65->75 + Def 85->95 + SpDef 85->95
Corsola: HP 55->65 + Def 85->95 + SpDef 85->95
Delcatty: Speed 70->90
Dodrio: Speed 100->110
Dugtrio: Attack 80->100
Electrode: Speed 140->150
Exeggutor: SpDefense 65->75
Farfetch'd: Attack 65->90
Illumise: Defense 55->75 + SpDefense 75->85
Lunatone: HP 70->90
Magcargo: HP 50->60 + SpAttack 80->90
Mantine: HP 65->85
Masquerain: SpAttack 80->100 + Speed 60->80
Noctowl: SpAttack 76->86
Pelipper: SpAttack 85->95
Qwilfish: Defense 75->85
Swellow: SpAttack 50->75
Volbeat: Defense 55->75 + SpDefense 75->85

 

We want diversity, not that gen7 overpowered shit.

I mean, masquerain almost seems a mega masquerain now.

Just gen6 plz. Good for the game. I swear.

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43 minutes ago, RacheLucario said:

You missed a few. If we go through with the changes at any point in the future, it will either be all of them or none of them - we won't be picking and choosing which ones to buff and which ones not to. Here's a complete list. Also included gen 7's buffs for the sake of discussion.

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________Generation 6

Butterfree: SpAttack 80->90
Beedrill: Attack 80->90
Pidgeot: Speed 91->101
Pikachu: Defense 30->40 + SpDefense 40->50
Raichu: Speed 100->110
Nidoqueen: Attack 82->92
Nidoking: Attack 92->102
Clefable: SpAttack 85->95
Wigglytuff: SpAttack 75->85
Vileplume: SpAttack 100->110
Poliwrath: Attack 85->95
Alakazam: SpDefense 85->95
Victreebel: SpDefense 60->70
Golem: Attack 110->120
Ampharos: Defense 75->85
Bellossom: Defense 85->95
Azumarill: SpAttack 50->60
Jumpluff: SpDefense 85->95
Beautifly: SpAttack 90->100
Exploud: SpDefense 63->73

_____________________________________________________________________Generation 7

Arbok: Attack 85->95
Ariados: SpDefense 60->70
Chimecho: HP 65->75 + Def 85->95 + SpDef 85->95
Corsola: HP 55->65 + Def 85->95 + SpDef 85->95
Delcatty: Speed 70->90
Dodrio: Speed 100->110
Dugtrio: Attack 80->100
Electrode: Speed 140->150
Exeggutor: SpDefense 65->75
Farfetch'd: Attack 65->90
Illumise: Defense 55->75 + SpDefense 75->85
Lunatone: HP 70->90
Magcargo: HP 50->60 + SpAttack 80->90
Mantine: HP 65->85
Masquerain: SpAttack 80->100 + Speed 60->80
Noctowl: SpAttack 76->86
Pelipper: SpAttack 85->95
Qwilfish: Defense 75->85
Swellow: SpAttack 50->75
Volbeat: Defense 55->75 + SpDefense 75->85

 

I don't have anything really against this. However I have  several questions regarding validity of these buffs without the moves implemented which are included in these gens.

I am cautious to be all in here with my support.

Though I don't see this as a very big issue I imagine implementing only parts of these gens would be trivial when other things seem to take priority over small buffs.

I do like the idea, I won't deny that having a little more sp attack on Butterfree & Beautifly would be very nice.

The buff's to Masquerain are a bit higher than the rest. There must be pros and cons to this, and I imagine it would take some testing to come up with a decision and final stance on whether it would be a good idea to implement this.

 

Edited by Hotarubi
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2 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

However I have a question regarding validity of these buffs without the moves implemented which are included in these gens.

Though I don't see this as a very big issue I imagine implementing only parts of these gens would be trivial when other things seem to take priority over small buffs.

It's not like we already have generation 4's physical and special split. It's not like we have some generation 5 abilities(sturdy etc). These changes are hardly harmless. They will only make other pokemon viable. 

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Some of them seem good but others seem a bit extreme.

As previously stated we would be accepting all not only just some.

I'm okay with some of these buffs but not with all of them.

Regarding masquerain that is one pokemon which would benefit far too much with these buffs.

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4 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

Regarding masquerain that is one pokemon which would benefit far too much with these buffs.

I don't see anything particularly wrong with making a currently completely unusable Pokemon actually viable in lower tiers. A +20 in special attack and speed won't make it uber, and very likely not OU either. It could turn out to be quite healthy for the game.

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7 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

Some of them seem good but others seem a bit extreme.

As previously stated we would be accepting all not only just some.

I'm okay with some of these buffs but not with all of them.

Regarding masquerain that is one pokemon which would benefit far too much with these buffs.

Do you even know what tiering is?

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Thanks for the feedback guys :)

On 13.11.2016 at 10:54 AM, RacheLucario said:

You missed a few. If we go through with the changes at any point in the future, it will either be all of them or none of them - we won't be picking and choosing which ones to buff and which ones not to. Here's a complete list. Also included gen 7's buffs for the sake of discussion. If we implement the gen 6 changes, we may consider gen 7 too.

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________Generation 6

Butterfree: SpAttack 80->90
Beedrill: Attack 80->90
Pidgeot: Speed 91->101
Pikachu: Defense 30->40 + SpDefense 40->50
Raichu: Speed 100->110
Nidoqueen: Attack 82->92
Nidoking: Attack 92->102
Clefable: SpAttack 85->95
Wigglytuff: SpAttack 75->85
Vileplume: SpAttack 100->110
Poliwrath: Attack 85->95
Alakazam: SpDefense 85->95
Victreebel: SpDefense 60->70
Golem: Attack 110->120
Ampharos: Defense 75->85
Bellossom: Defense 85->95
Azumarill: SpAttack 50->60
Jumpluff: SpDefense 85->95
Beautifly: SpAttack 90->100
Exploud: SpDefense 63->73

_____________________________________________________________________Generation 7

Arbok: Attack 85->95
Ariados: SpDefense 60->70
Chimecho: HP 65->75 + Def 85->95 + SpDef 85->95
Corsola: HP 55->65 + Def 85->95 + SpDef 85->95
Delcatty: Speed 70->90
Dodrio: Speed 100->110
Dugtrio: Attack 80->100
Electrode: Speed 140->150
Exeggutor: SpDefense 65->75
Farfetch'd: Attack 65->90
Illumise: Defense 55->75 + SpDefense 75->85
Lunatone: HP 70->90
Magcargo: HP 50->60 + SpAttack 80->90
Mantine: HP 65->85
Masquerain: SpAttack 80->100 + Speed 60->80
Noctowl: SpAttack 76->86
Pelipper: SpAttack 85->95
Qwilfish: Defense 75->85
Swellow: SpAttack 50->75
Volbeat: Defense 55->75 + SpDefense 75->85

 

Thanks Rachel, I don't know how I missed some of these...

Honestly, all of them look pretty good. But you missed something. Solrock gets +20 HP as well :p

 

I'm glad that we generally agree on those stat boosts. I'm not 100% convinced about updating them to gen7 (well, definietly not just yet) because of few pokes (namely: Lunatone, Solrock, Dugtrio, Dodrio. They are not very used (and Dug is banned) but they are getting very important boosts that might shake the meta).

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1 minute ago, RysPicz said:

Thanks for the feedback guys :)

Thanks Rachel, I don't know how I missed some of these...

Honestly, all of them look pretty good. But you missed something. Solrock gets +20 HP as well :p

 

I'm glad that we generally agree on those stat boosts. I'm not 100% convinced about updating them to gen7 (well, definietly not just yet) because of few pokes (namely: Lunatone, Solrock, Dugtrio, Dodrio. They are not very used (and Dug is banned) but they are getting very important boosts that might shake the meta).

dis meta needs some shaking tho, people want shakes!

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Honestly the gen 7 changes are unlikely to change the meta significantly. Arguably the scariest buff comes to dugtrio but since we already have than banned it's not too big of an issue. Maybe one of the rocks could move up a tier but outside of that probably not a whole lot of change. Dodrio still won't be used. And most of the others are more quality of life changes to the other pokes rather than anything game breaking. Overall this will just strengthen the NU tier which isn't really much of a problem imo.

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4 hours ago, RacheLucario said:

I don't see anything particularly wrong with making a currently completely unusable Pokemon actually viable in lower tiers. A +20 in special attack and speed won't make it uber, and very likely not OU either. It could turn out to be quite healthy for the game.

Think it needs testing before its just accepted though.

I also don't have a very big issue with this & like I said I feel it would have to be tested out.

I'm a big fan of several of the pokemon receiving buffs but introduction of more partial pieces of other gens seems it needs to happen when other moves are also implemented.

The zam spdef boost and Dodrios boost seems a bit uneeded to me.

 

 

Edited by Hotarubi
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7 hours ago, RacheLucario said:

I don't see anything particularly wrong with making a currently completely unusable Pokemon actually viable in lower tiers. A +20 in special attack and speed won't make it uber, and very likely not OU either. It could turn out to be quite healthy for the game.

I just think that Beautifly and Buterfree also needs an "extreme" buff like this...

 

 

Edited by Maelstrom
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Since we're already on a route of taking things from later gens, this one would be really cool to have. I think it's also notable that the most getting a buff are in the NU tier and mostly unviable even there. So many Pokemon could suddenly start to enjoy at least a bit of viability, the ones with a notable buff are pretty much completely useless even in lower tiers. I'm most worried from stuff like speed increases but the ones getting such thing exist in the lower tiers too. In general, I think this at most give a small gentle shake to UU and NU tier but they're changing constantly anyways but at the same time could actually give some reason for existance for some Pokemon in the battle.

 

Edited by OrangeManiac
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Something important to keep in mind imo is that the pokemons that get a stat boost in gen 7 might not be the same pokemons that we have in PokeMMO. For instance (correct me if I am wrong), Dugtrio gets a big atk boost in gen 7, but Dugtrio in gen 7 no longer has access to Arena Trap since Dugtrio will be in Alola form. If we give an atk boost to Dugtrio in PokeMMO, we could end up creating a pokemon that simply doesn't exist. I don't know how gen 7 really works exactly, so I might be worried about something impossible or irrelevant.

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1 hour ago, gbwead said:

Something important to keep in mind imo is that the pokemons that get a stat boost in gen 7 might not be the same pokemons that we have in PokeMMO. For instance (correct me if I am wrong), Dugtrio gets a big atk boost in gen 7, but Dugtrio in gen 7 no longer has access to Arena Trap since Dugtrio will be in Alola form. If we give an atk boost to Dugtrio in PokeMMO, we could end up creating a pokemon that simply doesn't exist. I don't know how gen 7 really works exactly, so I might be worried about something impossible or irrelevant.

naw, you can still use regular forms in gen 7 along with Alolan forms. The base attack buff is applied to both regular and Alolan dugtrio. In fact, Alolan Dugtrio actually has a different stat spread than regular, as it loses 10 base speed for 10 defense.

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On 11/14/2016 at 4:39 PM, Hotarubi said:

Think it needs testing before its just accepted though.

I also don't have a very big issue with this & like I said I feel it would have to be tested out.

I'm a big fan of several of the pokemon receiving buffs but introduction of more partial pieces of other gens seems it needs to happen when other moves are also implemented.

The zam spdef boost and Dodrios boost seems a bit uneeded to me.

 

 

What needs testing? It's not like pokes are going to jump from NU to ubers because of this. Alakazam is pretty much the only thing that would be a little concerning. Now if they decided to make it to where pokes could learn moves like in gen 7 ( flygon getting dragon dance, as a example ) that would be a different story.

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