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Option To Turn Off Timer In Officials


NikhilR

Question

Sometimes things come up during officials which can take up maybe 5 min of your time. This usually leads you to get afk'd from officials and it's hard to expect someone to have nothing come up during officials. Give the players a choice to turn off the timer under such circumstances, so that there is only a small delay of 2-3 min and then the other player can turn it on when they want. I really don't see any negatives in this.

Edited by NikhilR
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Dev argument will probably be that having every 'decision' be imposed on the system improves sportsmanship.

Like, say we had the old timer. You could afk your opponent when the minute or so was up and claim a win.

But then within the community, in aneffort of sportsmanship, the expectancy to not click the afk button grew. If you did click it, your team thread got raided.

 

Implementing something like this, although not as brutal, will prob result in something like... it would be considered a uguu move not to turn it off. And then everyone kinda has to play without timer so people have the time to calc etc, so they don't look like a uguu.

 

Showdown does have the option in ladders, but i'm not sure how their tourneys work / if it can work the same here / i've never played tourneys on showdown really to argue

 

I get what you're saying and why it's necessary, just thought i'd bring up this side cause i know someone will

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17 minutes ago, Eggplant said:

Dev argument will probably be that having every 'decision' be imposed on the system improves sportsmanship.

Like, say we had the old timer. You could afk your opponent when the minute or so was up and claim a win.

But then within the community, in aneffort of sportsmanship, the expectancy to not click the afk button grew. If you did click it, your team thread got raided.

 

Implementing something like this, although not as brutal, will prob result in something like... it would be considered a uguu move not to turn it off. And then everyone kinda has to play without timer so people have the time to calc etc, so they don't look like a uguu.

 

Showdown does have the option in ladders, but i'm not sure how their tourneys work / if it can work the same here / i've never played tourneys on showdown really to argue

 

I get what you're saying and why it's necessary, just thought i'd bring up this side cause i know someone will

The afk button was a bit dumb though because that lasted for only 45 seconds. The difference between showdown and mmo is that sometimes the timer for showdown matches are 5 min and you have the freedom of sending duel request whenever you want, but here you're pressured to duel within 10 min of your match getting over (assuming your opponent's match gets over too).  Waiting for 4-5 min doesn't change things a whole lot and if you feel your opponent is stalling or time wasting, then you can put the timer on when you want. Most reputed members of the community wouldn't disagree to such a pardon because they don't turn on the timer for showdown matches in PSL (not sure if it's a rule). It'd mostly be the noobs who'd turn on the timer looking for a free win. 

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41 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

 I really don't see any negatives in this.

Tournaments taking longer overall is a rather big one.

 

6 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

here you're pressured to duel within 10 min of your match getting over (assuming your opponent's match gets over too).  Waiting for 4-5 min doesn't change things a whole lot and if you feel your opponent is stalling or time wasting, then you can put the timer on when you want.

I'll get straight to the point - we want you to get on with your match, 10 minutes is more than enough time to put your team together and start your next match.

It's not fair to hold up your opponent (whether they mind or not) and it's especially not fair to further hold up the entire tournament (Because your match has an effect on more than just you and your opponent).

 

Having it sit at 10 minutes acts as a middle ground to allow you to grab your team for your next match and also prevent some level of scouting.

 

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18 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

Tournaments taking longer overall is a rather big one.

 

I'll get straight to the point - we want you to get on with your match, 10 minutes is more than enough time to put your team together and start your next match.

It's not fair to hold up your opponent (whether they mind or not) and it's especially not fair to further hold up the entire tournament (Because your match has an effect on more than just you and your opponent).

 

Having it sit at 10 minutes acts as a middle ground to allow you to grab your team for your next match and also prevent some level of scouting.

 

I don't think taking around 3-4 min in the first turn is gonna make a big issue out of it. You're assuming that this is something that almost everyone will exploit and it will thus act as a multiplier.  Also the other player has to be willing to agree to it, which then could mean it isn't that much of a punishment to him. I get that it isn't fair to hold up my opponent, but is it fair to me to play 3-4 rounds of a tournament and then that I can't be excused for 5 min to deal with something irl? This situation can come up maybe 2 min before my 10 min is up or maybe in the middle of my match. Otherwise it just means that the entire time I spent playing is wasted. Again this is at the other player's disposal so if they don't want to hold up the tournament they can switch on the timer, all I'm asking for is the option.

 

The issue isn't scouting, it's how about how I can't take any time to do something irl which is often of higher priority. So why not make it like 10 min to decide a team, then you're locked from accessing your pc and then you have 5 min before you can go into battle. 

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3 minutes ago, Faiyad said:

I think people will use this feature intentionally to get some more time so..I dont think this will be a good idea (just an opinion)

In what way is this exactly a bad idea or how exactly is it going to be exploited? Also the other player has the choice to turn it on if they feel their opponent is time wasting. 

 

2 minutes ago, Raederz said:

How prepared are you to need 10min choosing your team ?

These 10 mins are here for both building and afk things, and 10min is huge ..

I don't think 10 min is big enough for scouting + building team + afk things. It's like you're forgetting that you just got out of a battle. Just allot 10 min for scouting + building and then 5 min for afk things if you're so concerned about people not scouting a lot, by locking the pc. 

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3 minutes ago, Raederz said:

People do it, but nobody likes it, they just are like "everybody do it, so why not".

Giving time to help people to do it ...

People don't like being counterteamed, but scouting is something also helps you understand the mindset of a player like whether he plays it safe or risky. Hell the devs made it even more possible to scout with the implementation of replays. Either you spend the whole 10 min building a solid team or you spend 5 min scouting your opponent's team and then the remaining 5 min making a counter team for a team that your opponent didn't bring, so it's not a foolproof strategy.  Also I only mentioned scouting because that's what DS mentioned in his post, assuming that I was asking for extra time scouting and not during my battle. Hence why I suggested the alternative to locking the pc. 

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1 hour ago, NikhilR said:

I don't think taking around 3-4 min in the first turn is gonna make a big issue out of it. You're assuming that this is something that almost everyone will exploit and it will thus act as a multiplier. 

I'm not going to make any assumptions, but it's possible for that to be the case - and why wouldn't you take advantage of it?

Having a system that can be 'abused' but unlikely that it will be is not better than a system that can't be abused at all.

 

1 hour ago, NikhilR said:

The issue isn't scouting, it's how about how I can't take any time to do something irl which is often of higher priority.

Whilst this is not going to be a popular opinion; that's unfortunate, but you might just have to take the loss.

If you're unable to set aside the time to fully participate in a tournament, then unfortunately the tournament is not going to wait for you.

 

I've played a large amount of MMOs, many of them with PvP Arenas.

Most of them have you sign up to participate and within 5 minutes you're forced to join or you're kicked from the entire match.

Yes I understand that tournaments can go on for larger amounts of times, but your suggestion is not going to aid that.

 

10 minutes is more than enough time to pull your team out of the PC and attend to something small in real life such as making yourself a drink or going to the toilet.

If you're needing more time to attend to things in real life then perhaps you should accept that you do not have the time to participate.

 

Now don't take this the wrong way, of course we want as many people as possible to participate in our PvP events, but we've also got to balance that with the convenience and time schedule of the other players playing - and unfortunately I think in this case they are the majority.

Extending the time it takes for a tournament to start and finish without any real benefit (as evidence would suggest it currently works rather well) is not really within the best interest of the tournament system as a whole.

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1 hour ago, Darkshade said:

I'm not going to make any assumptions, but it's possible for that to be the case - and why wouldn't you take advantage of it?

Having a system that can be 'abused' but unlikely that it will be is not better than a system that can't be abused at all.

 

Whilst this is not going to be a popular opinion; that's unfortunate, but you might just have to take the loss.

If you're unable to set aside the time to fully participate in a tournament, then unfortunately the tournament is not going to wait for you.

 

I've played a large amount of MMOs, many of them with PvP Arenas.

Most of them have you sign up to participate and within 5 minutes you're forced to join or you're kicked from the entire match.

Yes I understand that tournaments can go on for larger amounts of times, but your suggestion is not going to aid that.

 

10 minutes is more than enough time to pull your team out of the PC and attend to something small in real life such as making yourself a drink or going to the toilet.

If you're needing more time to attend to things in real life then perhaps you should accept that you do not have the time to participate.

 

Now don't take this the wrong way, of course we want as many people as possible to participate in our PvP events, but we've also got to balance that with the convenience and time schedule of the other players playing - and unfortunately I think in this case they are the majority.

Extending the time it takes for a tournament to start and finish without any real benefit (as evidence would suggest it currently works rather well) is not really within the best interest of the tournament system as a whole.

How exactly is having more time during your battle exploitable? It's an option which means that not every single person is going to use it or need it. 

 

When you say fully participate in a tournament, you mean that I can't attend to something irl for maybe 3-4 min, even during my battle. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the 10 min duration between a battle being over and the next one starting, I gave that as an example as to how I can't schedule duel requests because of the 10 min thing.

 

Sorry if I'm leaving it like this after your detailed reply DS, but I think I'll refrain from continuing this because all you want to see is the negatives associated with it and not try to find a solution that could make things more convenient for the other player. You can close this if you feel like it. 

 

1 hour ago, Lazaro23 said:

I'd rather have an extra 2min30sec instead of this.. because it will make tournaments longer imo.
Also who doesn't want extra time for building a team.
 

How am I getting more time to build my team when I'm already in battle? I'm asking for the option to turn timer off during battle. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Draekyn said:

welcome to pokemmo forums where people don't read what you have to say but feel the urge to comment on it anyway

 

1 hour ago, Lazaro23 said:

I'd rather have an extra 2min30sec to teambuild, instead of this.. because it will make tournaments longer imo.
Also who doesn't want extra time for building a team.
 

fify, also some people just feel the urge to comment without adding any argument, while you're at it make me a sig for my whiscash, i've heard you're good at those at least.

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I can tell which players have experience lag and which ines have a faster pc based off of the responses XD

My biggest issue is when the servers are overloaded my timer will run down while i do not have the option of selecting a move yet....some mercy would be nice

As far as people exploiting it.....lets face it some people will exploit any system in some way or another but because this requires mutual compliance and also there could still be an overall battle time limit i do not believe that exploitation will be an issue.

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2 hours ago, bigbangattack said:

I can tell which players have experience lag and which ines have a faster pc based off of the responses XD

My biggest issue is when the servers are overloaded my timer will run down while i do not have the option of selecting a move yet....some mercy would be nice

As far as people exploiting it.....lets face it some people will exploit any system in some way or another but because this requires mutual compliance and also there could still be an overall battle time limit i do not believe that exploitation will be an issue.

If you read in a previous statement I made about the mutual compliance issue, that can be abused by those who just want a free win. They can say that they will pause the timer until you get back and not actually pause the timer. So while you are gone you end up losing to someone who just wanted a free win. Dual verification doesn't make it so the system cannot be abused, it just adds another way to abuse the system. Whilst lag is a legitimate argument, there are ways to reduce the lag, such as not having the overworld render during duels and closing out background apps that you aren't actively using (such as Steam, which can be a huge memory hog).

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24 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

If you read in a previous statement I made about the mutual compliance issue, that can be abused by those who just want a free win. They can say that they will pause the timer until you get back and not actually pause the timer. So while you are gone you end up losing to someone who just wanted a free win. Dual verification doesn't make it so the system cannot be abused, it just adds another way to abuse the system. Whilst lag is a legitimate argument, there are ways to reduce the lag, such as not having the overworld render during duels and closing out background apps that you aren't actively using (such as Steam, which can be a huge memory hog).

In showdown, timers are automatically started, and if or when it needs to be stopped, the staff have the ability to turn it off. So that way there isn't any abuse. 

Edited by NikhilR
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7 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

In showdown, timers are automatically started, and if or when it needs to be stopped, the staff have the ability to turn it off. So that way there isn't any abuse. 

 

No one wants to lose via timeout, or win via timeout, but altering the system in the way proposed has more cons to the players. Longer tournaments are just one. There is also introduced complexity as staff will have to moderate usage of the feature to ensure no abuse occurs. This means more staff present for tournaments, more rules introduced regarding the usage of this system, and more judgement calls made by staff.

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Just now, XelaKebert said:

 

No one wants to lose via timeout, or win via timeout

At the bolded part, you just said in your earlier post that it is possible for players to win via timeout, like when they say they will turn off timer but then turn it back on when you're not looking, so no, let's not assume that some people don't want to win via timeout when there have been instances of players afking others for a win.

 

2 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

Longer tournaments are just one. 

That's probably the only con I see right now, but I'd rather have that then battles being decided on who has the better net. 

 

3 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

There is also introduced complexity as staff will have to moderate usage of the feature to ensure no abuse occurs. 

I don't see how the abuse can happen. If both players mutually agree that they'd like the timer off, then the host or another staff member can turn it off and if the battle turns out to hold up everyone, either you turn the battle timer back on or proceed based on whether you feel the match will eventually end or not. This has happened before because 5 minute extensions from the 45 minute mark have been awarded before, in the previous system.

 

6 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

This means more staff present for tournaments, more rules introduced regarding the usage of this system, and more judgement calls made by staff.

Please tell me what is keeping the staff busy during the automated tournaments or what judgement calls they have to make regularly while the automated tournament is going on. Also you have refs for this exact purpose. 

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