Confusion thread

[DoubleJ]

39 minutes ago, LuisPocho said:

pokemon is boring, pokemmo is fun!

If we could we would, but just like freeze it's an evil we just have to live with. 

[LifeStyle]

Oceanic OU October

Round #4: Mlhawk vs Takens

Watch that and tell me that Swagger shouldn't be banned. Guy literally built a team around Swagger Jolteon with Rhydon+Haze Milotic+Weezing to support it and the RNG he got from confusion increased his winning chances by a lot. Dumb strategy which puts luck over skill imo.

[BurntZebra]

4 hours ago, LifeStyle said:

Oceanic OU October

Round #4: Mlhawk vs Takens

Watch that and tell me that Swagger shouldn't be banned. Guy literally built a team around Swagger Jolteon with Rhydon+Haze Milotic+Weezing to support it and the RNG he got from confusion increased his winning chances by a lot. Dumb strategy which puts luck over skill imo.

Well I watched the match and that really didn't prove anything. So he used swagger twice, snorlax hit itself two times out of four turns (snapped out on second turn of confusion), and just made snorlax a lot stronger vs milotic/rhydon. If anything, that match shows snorlax is the bigger constraint on the OU tier. It's a lot more likely haze milotic is for curselax, not removing attack boosts from snorlax. Swagger jolteon is pretty much exclusively for snorlax, as other special walls don't have the base attack to care about taking confusion damage, and jolteon has better tools to deal with other special walls (wish+growth for chansey, shadow ball for gardevoir, etc). Rhydon is a pretty nice wallbreaker and also has the added benefit of switching in vs snorlax pretty easily. The main thing that won the match was pursuit on rhydon which weakened snorlax a lot more than the 5 turns jolteon used vs snorlax. 

 

 

[LuisPocho]

On 29/10/2016 at 0:44 PM, BurntZebra said:

Well I watched the match and that really didn't prove anything. So he used swagger twice, snorlax hit itself two times out of four turns (snapped out on second turn of confusion), and just made snorlax a lot stronger vs milotic/rhydon. If anything, that match shows snorlax is the bigger constraint on the OU tier. It's a lot more likely haze milotic is for curselax, not removing attack boosts from snorlax. Swagger jolteon is pretty much exclusively for snorlax, as other special walls don't have the base attack to care about taking confusion damage, and jolteon has better tools to deal with other special walls (wish+growth for chansey, shadow ball for gardevoir, etc). Rhydon is a pretty nice wallbreaker and also has the added benefit of switching in vs snorlax pretty easily. The main thing that won the match was pursuit on rhydon which weakened snorlax a lot more than the 5 turns jolteon used vs snorlax. 

 

 

 Im pretty sure  LifeStyle wanted to point that the only posible play against that jolteon was keep attacking... wich is exatly what the confusion user desires

[Spaintakula]

12 minutes ago, LuisPocho said:

 Im pretty sure  LifeStyle wanted to point that the only posible play against that jolteon was keep attacking... wich is exatly what the confusion user desires

Not really? Literally the reason he posted was because apparantly the opponent had built a team around abusing swagger, which, could or could not be the case.

Either way, even if he didn't build a team around it, as I said a few pages back, it's bound to happen, which might be the reason for banning swagger, but yeah.

[Spyfire]

CC OU #5 round 4 Walplayer vs. Zozoth

subswagger jolt FTW 

turn 20 walplayer is slightly behind with his jolteon being severly damaged. winning the confusion flip vs snorlax he is allowed to sub up the turn after and finish snorlax off. just to throw some salt into the wound winning the confusion flip vs houndoom afterwards to pretty much win the game.

 

conclusion:

solely by riding the wave of variance walplayer was allowed to win this game. walplayer wins the first coinflip: he gains momentum and is allowed to sub up -> go for more coinflips, with which he is either in a fantastic spot jolteon being subbed up and snorlax probably dead ooorr in a decent spot with snorlax being dead and jolteon alive without sub. looks like a snowballing win/win scenario after winning just one coinflip with which seems to me to have very little drawback, jolteon being almost dead. 

aaaand walplayer wins another flip vs. opposing houndoom which brings him so far ahead that the game is pretty much decided in his favor.

I think when you find yourself in a spot where youre behind in the game, you should gamble but in a more skillful manner than hoping to win a coinflip. go for risky maneuvers like double switches and predicting certain moves and grind your way back into the game. dont take the easy route out by flipping a coin saying "oh i would have won that game if i won that flip."

Edited October 31, 2016 by Spyfire
accidentally posted this without finishing it lul

[BlackJovi]

Community Combat #5 Semi-Finals: Zozoth vs Walpayer 

 

Still not ban-worthy? 

[LifeStyle]

On ‎30‎-‎10‎-‎2016 at 11:55 PM, LuisPocho said:

 Im pretty sure  LifeStyle wanted to point that the only posible play against that jolteon was keep attacking... wich is exatly what the confusion user desires

yup, Jolteon would kill the other pokes takens had with tbolt+hpice combo, snorlax was there to wall it get rngd to gay swagger

[OrangeManiac]

I must say there's one particular thing I dislike about confusion and that's the effectiveness to set up a Belly Drum on unprepared teams. That in my eyes seems pretty uncompetitive, even though you can have priority and whatnots to stop it but this is one of those cases where the whole match can be basically lost to you because of a coin flip. I'm not entirely sure that's the fault of confusion inducing moves, though. But this combo is what seems in my eyes something that I could label as 'uncompetitive'.

[BurntZebra]

6 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

I must say there's one particular thing I dislike about confusion and that's the effectiveness to set up a Belly Drum on unprepared teams. That in my eyes seems pretty uncompetitive, even though you can have priority and whatnots to stop it but this is one of those cases where the whole match can be basically lost to you because of a coin flip. I'm not entirely sure that's the fault of confusion inducing moves, though. But this combo is what seems in my eyes something that I could label as 'uncompetitive'.

I feel like that's more so a problem with belly drum and not confusion. Belly drum pokemon can definitely set up without the use of confusion, especially vs unprepared teams. Charizard has a few pokemon that it can set up on in OU like chansey/dusclops/forretress and to a lesser extent things like weezing and houndoom. Linoone can set up vs even more things like bulky starmie/milotic/chansey/slowbro/other things that aren't sweepers. 

[OrangeManiac]

3 hours ago, BurntZebra said:

I feel like that's more so a problem with belly drum and not confusion. Belly drum pokemon can definitely set up without the use of confusion, especially vs unprepared teams. Charizard has a few pokemon that it can set up on in OU like chansey/dusclops/forretress and to a lesser extent things like weezing and houndoom. Linoone can set up vs even more things like bulky starmie/milotic/chansey/slowbro/other things that aren't sweepers. 

I definitely agree. Confusion is just the most reliable way to pull this strategy off, a coin flip to turn a hopeless match to a victory seems pretty dumb to me. Just pointed out this combo seems really cancerous to me in terms of competitive playing.

[NikhilR]

Encountered a random with Sub Swagger Electrode in Community Combat. I watched a bit of my opponent's previous match and he lucked his way out by haxing a toxic'd Kecleon. I had a Whiscash and Kecleon to continuously switch in and out when confused, and at times I luckily won those 50/50s, but any other moment I would've probs lost to it. I seriously hope that this combo of sub+swagger can be banned. 

[pachima]

18 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

Encountered a random with Sub Swagger Electrode in Community Combat. I watched a bit of my opponent's previous match and he lucked his way out by haxing a toxic'd Kecleon. I had a Whiscash and Kecleon to continuously switch in and out when confused, and at times I luckily won those 50/50s, but any other moment I would've probs lost to it. I seriously hope that this combo of sub+swagger can be banned. 

The implement of new gen mechanics (33% confuse damage) would be enough to stop the spam of said move.

There are some cases that the use of confuse is the only way one has to achieve victory, and the 33% stuff would deffinitely fit in there, however, for all these randoms that spam swagger just because, the decrease of its rate would certainly stop them. I think.

[NikhilR]

Just now, pachima said:

The implement of new gen mechanics (33% confuse damage) would be enough to stop the spam of said move.

There are some cases that the use of confuse is the only way one has to achieve victory, and the 33% stuff would deffinitely fit in there, however, for all these randoms that spam swagger just because, the decrease of its rate would certainly stop them. I think.

Yeah but I'd like it if we could have solution for this for the time being. It's just that we have no idea of when the devs will change the mechanics to 7th gen, unless the TC knows about this.

[LifeStyle]

Ban Swagger