[OU Discussion] Snorlax [Test banned]

[Murcielago]

LOL @ the kids who result to personal attacks and then edit their posts later to avoid people seeing it, if your going to post something here, dont edit it a million times, leave it up for all to see (thats what I do)

[BlackJovi]

are you even surprised... 

[Murcielago]

nope... LOL

[LifeStyle]

Just now, Murcielago said:

nope... LOL

such a fuck word bro, don't use that word

[Hotarubi]

11 hours ago, Hotarubi said:

Look you don't have to lie and say you don't use Snorlax.

3/5 battles with you include you depending on this pokemon.

Next time it happens i will just screenshot it.

Furthermore, Snorlax is overcentralizing, the usage blatantly shows that.

The fact is that personal attacks don't matter here you are right about that.

Another fact, Snorlax needs atleast a test ban to see the difference in the meta now without it.

Considered new items are implemented.

Snorlax temp ban when? 

2 months?

Regarding that quote about unreliable status that comes to a probability which is better explained as RNG

 

observed value vs expected value usually don't deviate too much from one another

however 

30% chance is still pretty high if you will consider that this spam will happen several times.

This percentage sums the chance of expected status 30%

Now add that to every body slam in a battle and you have a para. Just hope it doesn't land in the wrong spot or RIP.

The expected or predicted numbers for this case of 30 percent probability even with 30 trials is often vastly different but generally there is para going on in each battle without risk or to snorlax in its attempt to spam this. Once it is swapped in on a special sweeper etc its given the opportunity to spam this probability chance of 30%

Damaging status moves with added affect  are usually random which explains the RNG explanation of non competitive play involving snorlax.

however 3/10 doesn't rightly explain it as snorlax is offered multiple opportunities to attempt the spread of this status especially on a swap as it pressures those special sweepers to do just that.

 In this case, it is somewhat tedious to outline and then calculate all the possible combinations because the number of independent events has increased beyond three or four often times in a battle.

What determines the numbers that are selected in the lottery or whether heads or tails results after a coin flip?

We can ask similar questions about biological events. What determines whether chromosome 14 will be pulled to the left side of the cell or the right side during anaphase I of meiosis?

What determines if snorlax will stop your team from being effective in the long term of a battle begin to end via bodyslam?

The answer is chance... chance is not competitive and in-fact involves no skill.

Its a strategy that is completely not related to skill what so ever.

GG though GG

 

Remark on the information there not just the reply to you...... about your personal usage.

You use snorlax consistently and thats not anything new to anyone who battles you.....

10 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

^WTF is wrong with you? now your calling me a lier? GTFO with this shit

Nothing is wrong with me I'm just fond of telling the truth and interested in the overall health of this meta.

5 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

LOL @ the kids who result to personal attacks and then edit their posts later to avoid people seeing it, if your going to post something here, dont edit it a million times, leave it up for all to see (thats what I do)

My posts where edited to add informations, not to hide anything. I'll say it once again.

You lie about what you use in your team.

 

[Munya]

I feel like somebody using snorlax or not is irrelevant information when it comes to why snorlax should be banned or not, please keep posts on the actual discussion and not what somebody in particular as an argument for why they are arguing in favor or against something being banned

[Hotarubi]

3 minutes ago, Munya said:

I feel like somebody using snorlax or not is irrelevant information when it comes to why snorlax should be banned or not, please keep posts on the actual discussion and not what somebody in particular uses as an argument for why they are arguing in favor or against something being banned

Okay I can handle that.

[pachima]

I´m done with this pointless discussion. Already said my opinion, its given , period. Anyway, been scrolling through this and I found something fun.

23 hours ago, Murcielago said:

If your building a team that allows a snorlax to switch in and bodyslam away... your doing it wrong. 

Lemme see if I understood it.

If you want to place jolteon on your team you are doing it wrong, if you want to add vaporeon, you are also doing it wrong, If you need some Porygon2 to wall some noob that teambuilds wrong and uses jolteon, you are also doing it wrong, if you like offensive starmie and wish to find a spot for it on ur team, you are doing it wrong.

Let´s proceed, I want a cool arcanine on my team. Nah, I´m doing it wrong, that gives lax a chance to switch in and body slam away. 

Hm... let me see what I can use in ST (Snorlax Tier). Oh I see, slowbro was awesome to wall some shit. ... Damn, forgot snorlax comes in and body slam away, I guess Im doing it wrong.

After excluding half of OU mons, I realized specs charizard should be op on my team, but nah. Why? Cause im doing it wrong.

Want me to continue? I can...

You are just proving my point. You can´t teambuild in this ST without a huge overcentralization on the same. Everytime you pick the said 1/3 of the tier, u tend not to because you know snorlax can come in and cripple something.

PS: probably my last post, unless something funny shows up. I don´t want to repeat over and over again.

Edited October 30, 2016 by pachima

[Murcielago]

I'm going to attempt to address your statements at face value, please don't get offended, I'm not trying to be a jerk.

 

But yes, you are clearly doing it wrong.

 

If you cannot build a viable team with jolteon on it... yes, you are indeed doing it wrong.

If you cannot build a viable team with porygon2 on it... yes, you are indeed doing it wrong.

If you are unable to build a viable team with arcanine on it... yes, you are doing it wrong.

If your using specs on charizard, hate to say it, but your doing it wrong.

 

It seems the issue with you is teambuilding, I know orangemaniac set up a thread to help people for free, maybe hit him up?

 

As another suggestion, I would advise you to find a good OU player to help you with teambuilding and coach you through some matches... It is clear to me from some of your posts that you also have issues with your gameplay.  Banning snorlax will not solve these issues.

[xilias]

2 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

coach you through some matches...

pls ban

[pachima]

3 minutes ago, xilias said:

pls ban

Like I need to be coached LEL.

[Hotarubi]

7 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

I'm going to attempt to address your statements at face value, please don't get offended, I'm not trying to be a jerk.

 

But yes, you are clearly doing it wrong.

 

If you cannot build a viable team with jolteon on it... yes, you are indeed doing it wrong.

If you cannot build a viable team with porygon2 on it... yes, you are indeed doing it wrong.

If you are unable to build a viable team with arcanine on it... yes, you are doing it wrong.

If your using specs on charizard, hate to say it, but your doing it wrong.

 

It seems the issue with you is teambuilding, I know orangemaniac set up a thread to help people for free, maybe hit him up?

 

As another suggestion, I would advise you to find a good OU player to help you with teambuilding and coach you through some matches... It is clear to me from some of your posts that you also have issues with your gameplay.  Banning snorlax will not solve these issues.

Condescending remarks from you seem rather void.

[Murcielago]

pachima has already edited his post 3 times, should have quote, revision 3 is included below.

24 minutes ago, pachima said:

I´m done with this pointless discussion. Already said my opinion, its given , period. Anyway, been scrolling through this and I found something fun.

Lemme see if I understood it.

If you want to place jolteon on your team you are doing it wrong, if you want to add vaporeon, you are also doing it wrong, If you need some Porygon2 to wall some noob that teambuilds wrong and uses jolteon, you are also doing it wrong, if you like offensive starmie and wish to find a spot for it on ur team, you are doing it wrong.

Let´s proceed, I want a cool arcanine on my team. Nah, I´m doing it wrong, that gives lax a chance to switch in and body slam away. 

Hm... let me see what I can use in ST (Snorlax Tier). Oh I see, slowbro was awesome to wall some shit. ... Damn, forgot snorlax comes in and body slam away, I guess Im doing it wrong.

After excluding half of OU mons, I realized specs charizard should be op on my team, but nah. Why? Cause im doing it wrong.

Want me to continue? I can...

You are just proving my point. You can´t teambuild in this ST without a huge overcentralization on the same. Everytime you pick the said 1/3 of the tier, u tend not to because you know snorlax can come in and cripple something.

PS: probably my last post, unless something funny shows up. I don´t want to repeat over and over again.

You make posts, arguments and I respond... then yo uedit your post to try and make the flow of exchange look different than it actually is

[pachima]

Just now, Murcielago said:

pachima has already edited his post 3 times, should have quote, revision 3 is included below.

You make posts, arguments and I respond... then yo uedit your post to try and make the flow of exchange look different than it actually is

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I edited cuz grammar, but ok.

[Moetal]

Keep calm and don't feed the trolls. Some men just can't be convinced or bargained with. Some men just want to see the world burns.

 

Edit: With that said, every point that needs to be said is already posted in the previous pages of discussion. The so called tier council voted on no and took no actions. Until the tier council members are replaced, nothing will change. You are just wasting your breath at this point.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Moetal

[Hotarubi]

Just now, Moetal said:

Keep calm and don't feed the trolls. Some men just can't be convinced or bargained with. Some men just want to see the world burns.

The discussion though should be centered toward snorlax.

I feel like you didn't reply to my remarks regarding probability and chance being a key factor in any snorlax use.

@Murcielago

[Moetal]

3 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

The discussion though should be centered toward snorlax.

I feel like you didn't reply to my remarks regarding probability and chance being a key factor in any snorlax use.

@Murcielago

See above edit

[alphatheomegaaa]

I don't understand why its so hard to just ban curse like you guys did years ago. Cb Lax can at least be Counter and require prediction, skill, and an actually knowledge of sets. It is somewhat unfair to have to carry a move such as Haze just for 1 Pokemon because you know its going to be there. Curse is the only problem, Snorlax thickens the meta with another SP wall, but with curse just becomes to much of an issue

[Gunthug]

5 minutes ago, alphatheomegaaa said:

I don't understand why its so hard to just ban curse like you guys did years ago. Cb Lax can at least be Counter and require prediction, skill, and an actually knowledge of sets. It is somewhat unfair to have to carry a move such as Haze just for 1 Pokemon because you know its going to be there. Curse is the only problem, Snorlax thickens the meta with another SP wall, but with curse just becomes to much of an issue

Because there are a good chunk of people who think body slam is the move that should be banned, not curse. This is why we don't usually do complex bans - the discussion shifts to "which move/item should we ban?" Instead of "is the thing broken/unhealthy, and if so, why?"

[alphatheomegaaa]

6 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Because there are a good chunk of people who think body slam is the move that should be banned, not curse. This is why we don't usually do complex bans - the discussion shifts to "which move/item should we ban?" Instead of "is the thing broken/unhealthy, and if so, why?"

it was done in early 2014, i don't see whats wrong, and Bslam isnt op. Sure the 30% or so is obsurd  and makes it a numbers game, but rng is always involved in Pokemon, crits can happen at any moment, misses can happen any-moment, and statuses are part of the game. If you have bad luck well shit sucks your unlucky, but thats something that you have to risk. If banning 1 move on 1 poke is complex, then i feel like tyrone might need to get educated in the meaning of complexity. 

 

Edit: Phone Autocorrect is dumb af

Edited October 30, 2016 by alphatheomegaaa

[Hotarubi]

2 minutes ago, alphatheomegaaa said:

it was done in early 2014, i don't see whats wrong, and Bslam isnt op. Sure the 30% or so is obsurd  and makes it a numbers game, but rng is always involved in Pokemon, crits can happen at any moment, misses can happen any-moment, and statuses are part of the game. If you have bad luck well shit sucks your unlucky, but thats something that you have to risk. If banning 1 move on 1 poke is complex, then i feel like tyrone might need to get educated in the meaning of complexity. 

 

Edit: Phone Autocorrect is dumb af

So since you decided to remark on the fact that the 30% isn't a bad thing.

Is that sway actually competitive or is it damaging to the competitive play in a match?

yes curse is op however you have to allow curse to be setup....

Bodyslam is however usually the first thing a snorlax will do hoping to para the opponents pokemon.

Spam spam bodlyslam.

Lets review my previous post in a highlight.

" 30% chance is still pretty high if you will consider that this spam will happen several times.

This percentage sums the chance of expected status 30%

Now add that to every body slam in a battle and you have a para. Just hope it doesn't land in the wrong spot or RIP.

The expected or predicted numbers for this case of 30 percent probability even with 30 trials is often vastly different but generally there is para going on in each battle without risk or to snorlax in its attempt to spam this. Once it is swapped in on a special sweeper etc its given the opportunity to spam this probability chance of 30%

Damaging status moves with added affect  are usually random which explains the RNG explanation of non competitive play involving snorlax.

however 3/10 doesn't rightly explain it as snorlax is offered multiple opportunities to attempt the spread of this status especially on a swap as it pressures those special sweepers to do just that.

 In this case, it is somewhat tedious to outline and then calculate all the possible combinations because the number of independent events has increased beyond three or four often times in a battle.

What determines the numbers that are selected in the lottery or whether heads or tails results after a coin flip?

We can ask similar questions about biological events. What determines whether chromosome 14 will be pulled to the left side of the cell or the right side during anaphase I of meiosis?

What determines if snorlax will stop your team from being effective in the long term of a battle begin to end via bodyslam?

The answer is chance... chance is not competitive and in-fact involves no skill.

Its a strategy that is completely not related to skill what so ever."

[Sztajger]

5 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

So since you decided to remark on the fact that the 30% isn't a bad thing.

Is that sway actually competitive or is it damaging to the competitive play in a match?

yes curse is op however you have to allow curse to be setup....

Bodyslam is however usually the first thing a snorlax will do hoping to para the opponents pokemon.

Spam spam bodlyslam.

Lets review my previous post in a highlight.

" 30% chance is still pretty high if you will consider that this spam will happen several times.

This percentage sums the chance of expected status 30%

Now add that to every body slam in a battle and you have a para. Just hope it doesn't land in the wrong spot or RIP.

The expected or predicted numbers for this case of 30 percent probability even with 30 trials is often vastly different but generally there is para going on in each battle without risk or to snorlax in its attempt to spam this. Once it is swapped in on a special sweeper etc its given the opportunity to spam this probability chance of 30%

Damaging status moves with added affect  are usually random which explains the RNG explanation of non competitive play involving snorlax.

however 3/10 doesn't rightly explain it as snorlax is offered multiple opportunities to attempt the spread of this status especially on a swap as it pressures those special sweepers to do just that.

 In this case, it is somewhat tedious to outline and then calculate all the possible combinations because the number of independent events has increased beyond three or four often times in a battle.

What determines the numbers that are selected in the lottery or whether heads or tails results after a coin flip?

We can ask similar questions about biological events. What determines whether chromosome 14 will be pulled to the left side of the cell or the right side during anaphase I of meiosis?

What determines if snorlax will stop your team from being effective in the long term of a battle begin to end via bodyslam?

The answer is chance... chance is not competitive and in-fact involves no skill.

Its a strategy that is completely not related to skill what so ever."

miltank also go bslam, ban?

[Hotarubi]

Just now, Sztajger said:

miltank also go bslam, ban?

Miltank doesn't exert the pressure that snorlax does on special sweepers.

It can without risk spam this move.

Miltank has viable weakness.

Please remark on the competitiveness of that RNG.....

[alphatheomegaaa]

13 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

So since you decided to remark on the fact that the 30% isn't a bad thing.

Is that sway actually competitive or is it damaging to the competitive play in a match?

yes curse is op however you have to allow curse to be setup....

Bodyslam is however usually the first thing a snorlax will do hoping to para the opponents pokemon.

Spam spam bodlyslam.

Lets review my previous post in a highlight.

" 30% chance is still pretty high if you will consider that this spam will happen several times.

This percentage sums the chance of expected status 30%

Now add that to every body slam in a battle and you have a para. Just hope it doesn't land in the wrong spot or RIP.

The expected or predicted numbers for this case of 30 percent probability even with 30 trials is often vastly different but generally there is para going on in each battle without risk or to snorlax in its attempt to spam this. Once it is swapped in on a special sweeper etc its given the opportunity to spam this probability chance of 30%

Damaging status moves with added affect  are usually random which explains the RNG explanation of non competitive play involving snorlax.

however 3/10 doesn't rightly explain it as snorlax is offered multiple opportunities to attempt the spread of this status especially on a swap as it pressures those special sweepers to do just that.

 In this case, it is somewhat tedious to outline and then calculate all the possible combinations because the number of independent events has increased beyond three or four often times in a battle.

What determines the numbers that are selected in the lottery or whether heads or tails results after a coin flip?

We can ask similar questions about biological events. What determines whether chromosome 14 will be pulled to the left side of the cell or the right side during anaphase I of meiosis?

What determines if snorlax will stop your team from being effective in the long term of a battle begin to end via bodyslam?

The answer is chance... chance is not competitive and in-fact involves no skill.

Its a strategy that is completely not related to skill what so ever."

So then Twave should be banned due Paralysis to? its a guaranteed to paralysis and leads to the 25% chance to be fully paralyzed. Percentage sums are not a real thing, numbers don't work like that. It's 30% every time, the Dice(aka Roll) doesn't remember if you last hit was not a para. On top of everything your exsamples are what if's. I can Crit every time i use a move, because it's a "what if" a 30% chance isn't high enough to guarantee those paralysis. So your arguement is in theory with numbers that don't actually exists. I can pull shit out of my ass but facts are facts. What if there's a giant spaghetti monster? oh only rubi may know. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by alphatheomegaaa

[Hotarubi]

12 minutes ago, alphatheomegaaa said:

So then Twave should be banned due Paralysis to? its a guaranteed to paralysis and lead to the 25% chance to be fully paralyzed. Percentage sums are not a real thing, numbers don't work like that. It's 30% every time, the Dice(aka Roll) doesn't remember if you last hit was not a para. On top of everything your exsamples are what if's. I can Crit every time i use a move, because it's a "what if" a 30% chance isn't high enough to guarantee those paralysis. So your arguement is in theory with numbers that don't actually exists. I can pull shit out of my ass but facts are facts. What if there's a giant spaghetti monster? oh only rubi may know.

<3 you , however probability is a proven math.

observed values vs expected values usually don't deviate too much from one another

However there is that chance and chance is not competitive.

I don't want to continue this mantra but....

What determines the numbers that are selected in the lottery or whether heads or tails results after a coin flip?

We can ask similar questions about biological events. What determines whether chromosome 14 will be pulled to the left side of the cell or the right side during anaphase I of meiosis?

What determines if snorlax will stop your team from being effective in the long term of a battle begin to end via bodyslam?

The answer is chance... chance is not competitive and in-fact involves no skill.

 

Regarding twave, it cannot para jolt, rhydon etc.

Its not a damaging move with stab.

Its also not rng based.

I'm not discussing the RNG after the para, im discussing the speed modifier of that para.

The thing is twave doesn't do any damage, and is pretty easily countered. Rhydon is a great answer to it however bodyslam can para rhydon...

Edited October 30, 2016 by Hotarubi