[OU Discussion] Snorlax [Test banned]

[Hotarubi]

Snorlax being able to wall and disable through paralysis via bodyslam 30% chance....

It rekts  a significant portion of the metagame.

Doesn't that make it defensively uber, I think it does.

 Also consistently set up a situation in which makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep by paraslamming pokemon that can even resist its damage i.e. Rhydon but are totally useless if they become to slow to move or get para on setup...  making rng luck a huge problem....

 

In combination with it's  high base stats and a good movepool which could be anything really but usualy consists of paraslam and curse, this Pokemon  is far too powerful for OU.

I see no other outcome but more and more centralization focus on killing lax and sacrificing party space to keep you lax killer.

The situation as is feels like Snorlax tier with such a high usage of this poke.

Allowing this  pokemon ensures the whole metagame can eventually  be reduced to battles between only 20 or so Pokemon. 

It really puts limitations on what people can use and honestly killing it is not hard so difficult with the proper counter, however it's forcing you to use slots just to counter it.

Several pokemon including Espeon and zam as previously stated are incredibly powerful special sweepers but die to a single pursuit from cb lax.

The facts support this pokemon being Uber if you ask me.

Sorry to repost this however it was the focus of my previous remarks and I feel it was overlooked.

Lastly you can view usage statistics before and after snorlax was put into ou, however many things changed due to implemented items such as life orb and swift band...

It's difficult to offer a statistic without another temp ban however I imagine its safe to say that snorlax effectively walls and disables a substantial portion of pogeymans that are viable in OU.

It seems that anyone would know that team building is entirely changed by the presence of this cancer in the tier.

You know its bad when players who hate it in OU are forced to use it just to have a fighting chance....

This is feeling like a long uphill struggle for balance.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Hotarubi

[SweeTforU]

Ban snorlax and unban hopy

[BlackJovi]

lmao hotarubi runs trapinch why does she still complain about lax

 

E: Also a decision was made already, aren't we waiting 1 month more or something so the TC can have more evidence if its broken or not? 

Edited October 28, 2016 by BlackJovi

[Hotarubi]

8 minutes ago, BlackJovi said:

lmao hotarubi runs trapinch why does she still complain about lax

 

E: Also a decision was made already, aren't we waiting 1 month more or something so the TC can have more evidence if its broken or not? 

My request remarks here aren't for my own personal gain, as I don't have any problems defeating snorlax in general.

its not actually my only snorlax killer either.

I run several different ones to dispatch snorlax.

I run 4 seperate boxes of comps, not one of them is snorlax as I refuse to be a part of that cancer.

I'm not exactly sure what the problem is my remarks are valid.....

I'm not complaining about snorlax for personal reasons I'm complaining about it because I believe it is affecting the health of the OU tier.

It is more than just simply problematic.

[Spaintakula]

Hota the kind of person to ask for a discussion on something 10 minutes after an official decision has been made.

 

3 hours ago, BlackJovi said:

lmao hotarubi runs trapinch why does she still complain about lax

 

E: Also a decision was made already, aren't we waiting 1 month more or something so the TC can have more evidence if its broken or not? 

Hey cmon, she has a 1000 ways to deal with snorlax, but it's still toxic shit ban that fat piece of crap

[codylramey]

As far as i know the thread is up so we can continue the discussion. A decision has been made but its still possible for a ban in the future. Also you can have things to deal with a pokemon but it doesnt mean they fit well in ou w/o that pokemon. Rhydon sees very little usuage w/o lax around. I know i dont like running one or two pokemon for one threat.

[Spaintakula]

7 hours ago, codylramey said:

As far as i know the thread is up so we can continue the discussion. A decision has been made but its still possible for a ban in the future. Also you can have things to deal with a pokemon but it doesnt mean they fit well in ou w/o that pokemon. Rhydon sees very little usuage w/o lax around. I know i dont like running one or two pokemon for one threat.

Same thing with the trapinch comment, not true. Rhydon is still viable very much so, and used I believe, seeing how it can have a way easier time with chansey rather than snorlax, who can actually do something to it. So, no snorlax doesn't have to mean rhydon's usage would automatically decrease.

[codylramey]

Rhydon hates toxic more than bslam para. Not saying he cant do well against chansey, there are just better options. Also more options that can fit a wider variety of teams better.

Edited October 29, 2016 by codylramey

[Spaintakula]

One of the reasons it carries sub. The other one is that with around 170 HP investment, chansey can't break the sub with seismic toss. Also, any experienced player knows when and how to bring rhydon in vs a chansey, being baited into toxic 1st time around is just too easy. Plus not to mention half the chanseys carry twave instead of toxic, so all the more opportunities for rhydon

[gbwead]

I don't know what is worse between a paralysed Rhydon and a Substitute Lum Berry Rhydon.

[Spaintakula]

24 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I don't know what is worse between a paralysed Rhydon and a Substitute Lum Berry Rhydon.

A paralyzed rhydon with facade?

Gotta hit those claydols

[gbwead]

3 minutes ago, Spaintakula said:

A paralyzed rhydon with facade?

Gotta hit those claydols

Megahorn tho

 

Edit: and Ice Punch

Edited October 29, 2016 by gbwead

[Spaintakula]

Just now, gbwead said:

Megahorn tho

 

Edit: and Ice Punch

we're talking para'd here, cmon :(

[gbwead]

Just now, Spaintakula said:

we're talking para'd here, cmon :(

Ya even para'd, Megahorn and Ice Punch would be better than Facade against Claydol.

[Spaintakula]

Just now, gbwead said:

Ya even para'd, Megahorn and Ice Punch would be better than Facade against Claydol.

you're no fun

[pachima]

5 hours ago, Spaintakula said:

Same thing with the trapinch comment, not true. Rhydon is still viable very much so, and used I believe, seeing how it can have a way easier time with chansey rather than snorlax, who can actually do something to it. So, no snorlax doesn't have to mean rhydon's usage would automatically decrease.

I would like to see your rhydon switching into my chansey.

[Maelstrom]

It's not an argument, but I guess we already have more than enough to try a test ban, no?

 

Kanga got test banned for less than this iirc...

[Mike]

11 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Kanga got test banned for less than this iirc...

After 7 months yeah. So expect snorlax atleast another 2 months in the tier.

 

Although I do agree with Gb, it isn't necesarrily OP on it's own but the support it gives to teams is insane and it's just really centralizing. I wouldn't be against a test ban

 

 

[Gunthug]

24 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

It's not an argument, but I guess we already have more than enough to try a test ban, no?

 

Kanga got test banned for less than this iirc...

 

12 minutes ago, TheChampionMike said:

After 7 months yeah. So expect snorlax atleast another 2 months in the tier.

 

Although I do agree with Gb, it isn't necesarrily OP on it's own but the support it gives to teams is insane and it's just really centralizing. I wouldn't be against a test ban

 

 

The difference is kanga had never been test banned from UU, whereas we've done this same song and dance with snorlax several times (albeit without some key new items that could make chansey a lot more exploitable)

 

Also, if the argument is that lax fits support uber, it wouldn't warrant a test ban as what the metagame looks like without snorlax has no bearing on how well it supports its teammates.

 

Personally I don't think lax fits uber support (or any of the uber categories), but here's what I do think - lax is one of those Pokémon that comes dangerously close to meeting all three uber criteria. That right there is a huge red flag for unhealthiness, and I do think that usage indicates it may be overcentralizing. I'm in favor of a test ban because I think the meta without snorlax will take a significant amount of pressure off teambuilding, freeing up several team slots for more creative builds and different ways to utilize special attackers. And if we test ban it for a month and things look essentially the same, then I think it's time to come to terms with the fact that Lax is just a necessary evil in our OU meta. 

[codylramey]

13 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

 

The difference is kanga had never been test banned from UU, whereas we've done this same song and dance with snorlax several times (albeit without some key new items that could make chansey a lot more exploitable)

 

Also, if the argument is that lax fits support uber, it wouldn't warrant a test ban as what the metagame looks like without snorlax has no bearing on how well it supports its teammates.

 

Personally I don't think lax fits uber support (or any of the uber categories), but here's what I do think - lax is one of those Pokémon that comes dangerously close to meeting all three uber criteria. That right there is a huge red flag for unhealthiness, and I do think that usage indicates it may be overcentralizing. I'm in favor of a test ban because I think the meta without snorlax will take a significant amount of pressure off teambuilding, freeing up several team slots for more creative builds and different ways to utilize special attackers. And if we test ban it for a month and things look essentially the same, then I think it's time to come to terms with the fact that Lax is just a necessary evil in our OU meta. 

I 100% agree with this. I would for 2 months bc you know... mmo. But we have already had laxless meta b4 so ppl have pokes for it already assuming a lot of the old comp players stuck around so a month might be good. Its certainly better than nothing.

[kevola]

I feel like predictions can only take you so far with Snorlax due to the 30% paralysis chance. Since it has a wide movepool enabling it to run many different sets only a few pokemon can consistently deal with it, like Milotic. When you pair it with pokemon like Houndoom it stops many specially offensive threats, giving it the opportunity to set up later. 

 

Sure there are pokemon that beat it and cause trouble to it, but personally I find it much harder to deal with than any other pokemon, and I think many others agree with that too. 

 

It has the ability to single-handedly sweep/cripple teams. You could say this is an error in team building, but sometimes you can't do anything to stop it, and sometimes one paralysis can just ruin everything

 

In terms of team building limitations, people are often forced to run 2 or so Lax counters just to be safe. Despite sparking creativity with things like lum berry Rhydon and Block Perish song Haunter, Snorlax has equally adapted and has started running sets like Sub/eq or surf and Sub/crunch  which ultimately causes people to run Milotic (Which can still occasionally lose due to parahax) consistently, which is pretty boring

 

I'm not saying playing a Snorlax is impossible to deal with, but it's just a pain in the ass sometimes. You could equally run Snorlax in all your teams, which is completely justifiable because it's obviously one of the better pokemon in the tier. However fair this may be, I think the main problem is that Snorlax is a step better than every pokemon in the tier due to things like its low risk/ high reward switch in capabilities 

 

A lot of people don't believe it should be banned, some people don't even have a problem with it, but, most of these people do admit it's over powered, or extremely good. When you use terms like that it's relative to the tier and should a pokemon that is described like that be banned? 

 

I've seen arguments for both sides, which is completely fair. Just curious as to why there hasn't been a test ban yet? Seems like it'll be a fair way to see what the meta would be like without Snorlax 

 

My argument is purely subjective to the difficulties I've faced whilst playing Snorlax and what I've seen it do to teams. Some people I've spoken to say they don't have a problem with it so I guess there's still a mixed view towards it. Personally I think a test ban would be a good place to start 

[Liberalisme]

We better keep Snorlax in OU just to annoy Hotarubi

[Spaintakula]

7 hours ago, pachima said:

I would like to see your rhydon switching into my chansey.

Well that's totally unneeded and proves no point whatsoever. We're talking the regular most used sets on it, any gimmick you run on it just to deal with certain shit isn't magically gonna change the meta

[pachima]

11 minutes ago, Spaintakula said:

Well that's totally unneeded and proves no point whatsoever. We're talking the regular most used sets on it, any gimmick you run on it just to deal with certain shit isn't magically gonna change the meta

Come on, cant take a bit if fun? I know a particular gimmick does nothing to change the meta. Just stating I would like to see it, nothing too serious, relax.

[Spaintakula]

49 minutes ago, pachima said:

Come on, cant take a bit if fun? I know a particular gimmick does nothing to change the meta. Just stating I would like to see it, nothing too serious, relax.

I don't know you enough to realize when you're joking and when not man, idk :(

But yeah, do get it :]