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[OU Discussion] Snorlax [Test banned]

Tyrone

By Tyrone
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OrangeManiac

OrangeManiac

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, NikhilR said:

But it's not video proof from just one match, it's had an impact on several matches in the latest tournament and many others. I get what you're saying about quoting matches where Snorlax has felt like another pokemon, but can anyone else show me a match where another pokemon had the same sweeping capabilities as a Curse Snorlax? When you're down 6-3 vs your opponent and one of your pokemon manages to then take out all 6 pokemon because of how it uses a majority of the meta as set up bait, it really is a problem. For me it's Curse Lax that is more broken than any other Lax. 

We are on the same boat then. I also think Curselax is easily one of the most key parts of the metagame to be considered when building an OU team. Unless you're running really hyper offensive a Hazer is a must, or Whirlwind/Roar + fairly offensive teams do also fine but defensive teams are a set up baits to Lax without Haze because as a last Pokemon it can't be Whirlwinded out (like you've explained).  I'm personally quite on edge whether it's enough for Uber but I agree that the effect that Curselax has for teambuilding is huge.

 

The thing is that reading this thread I felt like the biggest concern people has with Lax is "ew bodyslam parahax I should have won that match" so for that I'm just pointing out people are often quite selective with their memories when playing against a Lax.

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Tyrone
Tyrone

Snorlax - here we go again. This monster has been one of the most loved, and hated, pokemon in Pokemmo history. In this thread we will determine its fate once more by looking at its health in the OU t

Tyrone
Tyrone

Implying other players are bad and yourself are good is not a valid argument to keep Snorlax in the Tier. Please add some constructive argumentation to your posts, if you can not do this, just do

gbwead
gbwead

My thoughts on Snorlax   Snorlax doesn’t fit any uber characteristics, but is nevertheless banworthy. Describing as "unhealthy" Snorlax’s impact on the OU metagame is a poor choice of words.

NikhilR

NikhilR

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

We are on the same boat then. I also think Curselax is easily one of the most key parts of the metagame to be considered when building an OU team. Unless you're running really hyper offensive a Hazer is a must, or Whirlwind/Roar + fairly offensive teams do also fine but defensive teams are a set up baits to Lax without Haze because as a last Pokemon it can't be Whirlwinded out (like you've explained).  I'm personally quite on edge whether it's enough for Uber but I agree that the effect that Curselax has for teambuilding is huge.

 

The thing is that reading this thread I felt like the biggest concern people has with Lax is "ew bodyslam parahax I should have won that match" so for that I'm just pointing out people are often quite selective with their memories when playing against a Lax.

I think curselax manages to punish even balance teams, not just defensive. And yeah I don't consider body slam parahax as that problematic as well. Either you don't get parahaxed or you can dodge it by sacking something that is at low health and then bringing in your revenge killer, because for me that is more important - being able to revenge kill, and that's something curselaxes can usually avoid. 

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gbwead

gbwead

Posted
Posted
On 06/10/2016 at 7:47 AM, OrangeManiac said:

The thing is that reading this thread I felt like the biggest concern people has with Lax is "ew bodyslam parahax I should have won that match" so for that I'm just pointing out people are often quite selective with their memories when playing against a Lax.

Let's not even call this parahax at this point because tbh when a Lax spams Body Slam, the paralysis is to be expected. When Skarmory, Rhydon, Gyarados or Milotic get paralysed, no one is suprised.  When people say "ew bodyslamm parahax I should have won that match", they are not saying they lost to hax, they are saying they lost because the Body Slam mechanic did not favor them and single handedly made them lose.

 

People having selective memories - when it comes to the times Body Slam doesn't cost them the game - is not bad faith on their part. It is overall not that interresting. What would it prove? That Lax doesn't steal the games more often than it does? It would not change the fact that we are talking about games being stolen. We are talking about something uncompetittive that will arbitrarily (without any skills involves) determine whether you say in this thread "ew bodyslam parahax I should have won that match" or nothing.

 

On 06/10/2016 at 8:11 AM, NikhilR said:

Either you don't get parahaxed or you can dodge it by sacking something that is at low health and then bringing in your revenge killer

I agree with this method of dealing with Snorlax, but I can't believe you don't see this as a problem. The solution is either be lucky or sacrifice a pokemon to revenge kil!!!

In NU, I could deal with Azumarill by sacrificing a low HP pokemon and then sending Electabuzz, but that doesn't change the fact that Azumarill fits offensive uber characteristics imo. Regarding lax, sacrificing a low hp pokemon to avoid getting paralysed is to me a clear indication that Snorlax is uncompetitive.

 

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NikhilR

NikhilR

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, gbwead said:

I agree with this method of dealing with Snorlax, but I can't believe you don't see this as a problem. The solution is either be lucky or sacrifice a pokemon to revenge kil!!!

In NU, I could deal with Azumarill by sacrificing a low HP pokemon and then sending Electabuzz, but that doesn't change the fact that Azumarill fits offensive uber characteristics imo. Regarding lax, sacrificing a low hp pokemon to avoid getting paralysed is to me a clear indication that Snorlax is uncompetitive.

 

It can or can't be problematic, it entirely depends on the situation. The way I see it, you are taking an approach which guarantees the same result (sacking something and bringing in a revenge killer) instead of going by a riskier approach which may or may not guarantee the same result (switching in your revenge killer which lives a body slam). If it's a low health pokemon that you no longer need, then there's no harm in sacking it. I don't think Lax and Azumarill are analogous in this case, because Electabuzz can't switch in on a waterfall from Azu, whereas some revenge killers like Flygon / Heracross can switch in on a body slam, but they can't afford the risk of the para. I could be wrong with this analogy, but you can compare body slam to scald, in the sense that you can switch in your physical water resist onto scald, but getting that burn would ultimately screw you over, so there's no need to risk that when you can bring it in safely.

Edited by NikhilR
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Murcielago

Murcielago

Posted
Posted

But isn;t RNG just RNG?  If your opponent 1 shot crits your lead from luck... it sucks but no one is asking to ban crits (or maybe they did).  It is a given fact that every snorlax uses bodyslam  it is our job as players to predict and team build accordingly.

 

One thing i will mention, which is more of a developmental idea than a tier council thing is this... Ground types are immune to thunderwave and paralysis in general except from bodyslam.  Perhaphs make ground types so they cannot b e paralyzed from bslam?  It makes sense, and would make rhydon an even stonger counter but lax could still beat it with surf...

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OrangeManiac

OrangeManiac

Posted
Posted

I kinda think Snorlax is unhealthy. Because it's strong and it's so fat it sends a very questionable message to people making them think being fat means you can easily overpower most of your opponents easily. However, that is not quite the case. Being excessively fat can cause very many health issues and therefor I think Snorlax as itself is very unhealthy.

 

 

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RysPicz

RysPicz

Posted
Posted
Just now, DoubleJ said:

What are you running, max speed no bulk? Hydro Pump Modest specs  has trouble 2 shotting unless you got a full layer

3 layers of spikes were on field and Lax has a LOT of speed, 252 sdef Adamant. Problem are the IVs because the only 31 is speed and rest is pretty much 24-28

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Tranzmaster

Tranzmaster

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, RysPicz said:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Starmie Surf vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 84-99 (35.5 - 41.9%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes
 
You still suck (and AP Pantheon ftw)

Hold on a minute, did your snorlax have perfect HP and SpDef IV's?

 

Because my Starmie was actually Timid and not Modest and only had 26 Sp Atk iv's. It was even yours XD

 

252 SpA Choice Specs Starmie Surf (26 Sp atk IV) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 75-88 (31.7 - 37.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after 3 layers of Spikes

 

 

 

 

Edited by Tranzmaster
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DoubleJ

DoubleJ

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Tranzmaster said:

Hold on a minute, did your snorlax have perfect HP and SpDef IV's?

 

Because my Starmie was actually Timid and not Modest and only had 26 Sp Atk iv's. It was even yours XD

 

252 SpA Choice Specs Starmie Surf (26 Sp atk IV) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 75-88 (31.7 - 37.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after 3 layers of Spikes

 

 

 

 

#impaired

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