[OU Discussion] Snorlax [Test banned]

[Crazyhell]

On 11/09/2016 at 11:38 AM, codylramey said:

p2 and gard can both switch in on and kill jolt easily.

 

if it's jolt growth + signal beam u beat gard ( if u growth on protect ) 

 

only p2 it's safe 

 

oh wait , jolt swagger can beat p2 ! Play jolt swagger 

[Hotarubi]

LF  A decision to made on this.

I'm pretty sure nobody can justly defend snorlax staying in the OU tier, aside from the claim that the Chansey meta was stale.

I see no reason why it should stay if pokemon like TTAR, and Salamence sit in the UBER tier.

 

[Lyanna]

Quote

Snorlax - here we go again. This monster has been one of the most loved, and hated, pokemon in Pokemmo history.

Couldn't be more agree with this statement. I use snorlax almost regularly in my team, but on the other side, that is one pokemon i hated the most. I think most (not all) of the players think like that too, we can only like snorlax (and chansey) if they are on our side. Snorlax is not invincible, but in my opinion, it ruin the fun of pvp game. 

[Blue]

  Can we ban this shit cancer called snorlax already. Makes me so sad getting haxd every fucking time from body freaking slam making me sack all my pokes and lose cause i got parad every time this shit hit me. I got knocked out from todays official because my venusaur got parad one turn before it gives final blow to snorlax. Also body slam vs me had its shiny moments in matchmaking more times than i can actually remember. If banning body slam on snorlax isnt possible then just ban the freaking poke.

[codylramey]

Remember the sooner you ban snorlax the sooner i come back. Gunthug you know you want it.

[Hotarubi]

On 9/17/2016 at 4:12 AM, Bluejim said:

  Can we ban this shit cancer called snorlax already. Makes me so sad getting haxd every fucking time from body freaking slam making me sack all my pokes and lose cause i got parad every time this shit hit me. I got knocked out from todays official because my venusaur got parad one turn before it gives final blow to snorlax. Also body slam vs me had its shiny moments in matchmaking more times than i can actually remember. If banning body slam on snorlax isnt possible then just ban the freaking poke.

Cmon staff,  take 4

Yes take by take. Turn by turn.

In an ou match ranked.

Fresh match

Your opponent sent out SNORLAX.

 

I swap in my Snorlax counter poke to defend to a first turn opponent snorlax start.

Im ready to see One shot from ohko lowkick... Im thinking die snorlax...

As swapping in my poke is 

Para on first body slam by snorlax.

Turn two  in attempt to use lowkick, snorlax bodyslams again.

My poke Paralyzed can't move "Haynaku" - omg sigh

Turn 3 

Snorlax bodyslams the remaining hp My counter that is too slow to move due to being paralyzed.

 

..... Not skill nothing but RNG .

Rng WHICH 

COMPLETELY RUINED THE COMPETITIVE PART OF OUR MATCH.

AS SNORLAX ALSO PARALYZED THE SWEEPER THAT KILLED IT it overall decided the winner of the match....

Due to para my sweeper could not outspeed my opponent's last pokemon.....

Ban this imbalance back to Uber plz......

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Hotarubi
English fixed.

[Tyrone]

I would like to see some replays from Official Tournament games in which Snorlax is clearly shown to be unhealthy for the game.

Please write the name of the Tournament, round # and the two competing players.

 

Using this, the Tier Council can review those cases and analyze if / how Snorlax has been the problematic factor.

 

 

My personal stance on Snorlax is that a ban would likely have a negative impact on the metagame, recreating the stale "Chansey-metagame" where the obvious replacement for Snorlax on most teams will be Chansey, and the safest switchin for Chansey is yet another Chansey. This leads to unnecessarily long and boring matches for both spectators and players.

Many skilled players will argue that "Chansey is more exploitable than Snorlax, so it isn't as big of a problem" which holds truth, but another truth is that not every competitive player is as skilled as the players arguing this and will not see the exploits a Chansey offers. (Or the main counter of Chansey has fainted in the duel before Chansey did and the only way to now beat it is to pp-stall)

 

It also needs to be stated that one of the issues with Snorlax (Body Slam paralysis) come due to the fact that there's an increase dislike among the competitive playerbase for RNG, as seen in the OU Discussion Request thread, Confusion thread, Suggestion for haxless tournament and arguments for complex ban on Body Slam Snorlax.

 

When looking at the situation from a helicopter point of view, as Tier Council leader I must look at the whole metagame picture and not just the Official Tournament semis and finals. Each normal / ranked matchmaking game is affected by the change made. The OU Tier has never been as popular as it currently is, which is obvious by the sheer amount of usage statistics I get to process each month, currently around 250 daily matches being recorded on average!

 

I will not rush the decision on Snorlax due to community pressure, as I believe the effects need to be thoroughly discussed and precautions of a potential test ban have to be agreed upon. As I've said before, the Tier Council meeting about Snorlax will take place this month and hopefully we can sort it out.

[BlackJovi]

ban body slam ez solution 

[DarylDixon]

1 minute ago, BlackJovi said:

ban body slam ez solution 

body slam + curse *

[LifeStyle]

2 minutes ago, DarylDixon said:

body slam + curse *

no, just body slam

[SirYurop]

On Saturday, September 03, 2016 at 7:42 AM, DoctorPBC said:

Serious talk, this has just been a never ending cycle of bullshit bans. I dont come to these threads anymore because I still have the 'I told you so mentality' from 2 years of trying to convince senile that he is dumb but im going to give it a shot here.

 

Snorlax is strong, its presence in the meta proves that undoubtedly. And with the vast majority of its checks and counters not actually being a thing until 4th gen or further (poison heal gliscor, scizor, machamp, heatran, jellicent etc) It is a struggle to bring down no doubt. 

 

What we dont have however is a mon that is literally uncounterable, aside from the fact its best 3 checks are sitting in ubers Snorlax has plenty of counter play available to smart players who actually know how to play. From Ludicolo, Dusclops, Psych up Meta and Skarmory to less used mons like Specs Kazam (which can 3hko just about every variant while only being 2 shot), WoW gardevoir, just about any fighting type and the likes of bellyzard etc. 

 

With the new choice items and especially Life orb all the counters for lax in the world are available... just too many complainers stuck bringing their 4 walls + heracross and starmie expecting to break down another team with the exact same strategy. The biggest problem with Snorlax is that he is a comfort pick for just about everyone because everyone is too scared to deviate from 'standard' shit, get out there and run a fucking block feraligatr like I saw the other day, fkin mixed blaziken eats it alive... heck even Snorlax struggles to stand up to rain mons (and in a meta without other weather mons to ruin your shit too).

 

 

To put this bluntly, there is too many whiners in this thread because their precious standard mons havent been able to beat Snorlax for the past 2 years. Stop complaining and look for the counter play, its there... use it

This so much ppl be like "omg my team is so weak to lax" and then keep runnin the same team like lax aint a top tier poke...para a problem?? Run lum or a fuckin cleric, evaluate the risk/reward of each play cuz ive seen ppl sac their best lax check to make like 40% to a def wall and then "dam lax walls me this shit so unhealthy, ban when"

 

 

[Thunderprime]

The real problem about snorlax is that you cant bring a counter like gyarados or metagross. Snorlax needs at least 2 or even 3 pokemon just to have a chancr beating it and yet it fails sometimes. OU tier without snorlax will have much more diversity even if everyone bring chansey which is no more as cancer as before

[Blue]

Oceanic September Tournament

 

Round#3

yaritan vs Bluejim

[pachima]

28 minutes ago, SirYurop said:

This so much ppl be like "omg my team is so weak to lax" and then keep runnin the same team like lax aint a top tier poke...para a problem?? Run lum or a fuckin cleric, evaluate the risk/reward of each play cuz ive seen ppl sac their best lax check to make like 40% to a def wall and then "dam lax walls me this shit so unhealthy, ban when"

 

 

Plz tell me a good cleric that doesnt fear snorlax.

[DoubleJ]

1 minute ago, pachima said:

Plz tell me a good cleric that doesnt fear snorlax.

Missdreavus

[pachima]

2 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Missdreavus

Crunch says hi.

[Guerinf]

36 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

My personal stance on Snorlax is that a ban would likely have a negative impact on the metagame, recreating the stale "Chansey-metagame" where the obvious replacement for Snorlax on most teams will be Chansey, and the safest switchin for Chansey is yet another Chansey. This leads to unnecessarily long and boring matches for both spectators and players.

Many skilled players will argue that "Chansey is more exploitable than Snorlax, so it isn't as big of a problem" which holds truth, but another truth is that not every competitive player is as skilled as the players arguing this and will not see the exploits a Chansey offers. (Or the main counter of Chansey has fainted in the duel before Chansey did and the only way to now beat it is to pp-stall)

I'm not sure a laxless meta will be more stall-centered than the one we are currently seeing. Chansey is a wonderfull special wall but its options are limited a lot. Which isn't the case of Snorlax. Chansey has basically two moves changing : or toxic or Twave. And when seeing the type of team you're facing, you can quite easily guess what is the move. If you fail, then it only costs you a heal bell or having a mon para'd/tox'd. Whereas Snorlax has, like stated many times before, the ability to run everything to catch his counters off guard and kill them.

As a consequence, your switches on lax are severly reduced to walls to check the moveset and even when you know what it runs, offensive mons have huge difficulties to switch in. On the other hand, Chansey opens the door for many offensive mons. The first are obvioulsy nearly every physical and mixt attackers who can setup on Chansey. Others are special sweepers that have a recovery (growth venu, growth jolt, block cm slowbro, gardevoir, etc.) which have proven their effectiveness many times. When played with Wish, strong specs attackers paired with a set up physical sweeper will give real troubles to Chansey too as it can't heal itself without giving you a chance to setup. And finally, if Chansey runs twave, it won't be as effective against stall. So I don't really see how Chansey promotes a stall meta when it offers really more open windows for offensive mons.

My personnal experience of this game is that I've never been able to play as offensively in OU as during the "Chansey-meta". It's a meta where i used to see a lot of new sets working pretty well and not as much based on rng as it is now. Every playstyle offered its possibilities and it wasn't more stall then it is right now.

That said, i don't see how the argument of the bad players not being able to beat Chansey unless ppstalling is an effective argument. First, because it's just a personnal assumption based on a previous meta where mixt attackers weren't as viable as they are now and where we didn't have specs and life orbs. And secondly, because it's one of the rule of tiering that we shouldn't keep something in the tiers because something else would be problematic. And finally, i prefer seeing a good player pp stalling and winning cause he's better than seeing a game based on bets about lax's moveset and paras.

[DoubleJ]

12 minutes ago, pachima said:

Crunch says hi.

There they go again, listing every move a Snorlax could ever run to counter you! When was the last time you saw Crunch on Snorlax, c'mon brah!

[BlackJovi]

Just now, DoubleJ said:

There they go again, listing every move a Snorlax could ever run to counter you! When was the last time you saw Crunch on Snorlax, c'mon brah!

you forget about the 10 move snorlax, new meta 

[gbwead]

9 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

When was the last time you saw Crunch on Snorlax, c'mon brah!

Funny you say that since the last official OU duel was the Oceanic September Tournament's finale where we see a Crunch Snorlax.

[DoubleJ]

1 minute ago, gbwead said:

Funny you say that since the last official OU duel was the Oceanic September Tournament's finale where we see a Crunch Snorlax.

Probably saw a Surf Snorlax, Toxic Sub Snorlax, Pursuit Whirlwind Snorlax, and a Thunderpunch one at some point too. 

 

 

EDIT: They exist, it doesn't mean it's the norm. Versatility is a uguu. 

Edited September 19, 2016 by DoubleJ

[Hotarubi]

44 minutes ago, Bluejim said:

Oceanic September Tournament

 

Round#3

yaritan vs Bluejim

Wow, just wow.....

Please ban this and stop the "stale chansey meta" defense.

Or atleast ban body slam!

This is exactly what you ask for @Tyrone

Barely having a snorlax free ou after the new items are available feels like support to test the 

Test ban of snorlax.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Hotarubi

[pachima]

17 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

There they go again, listing every move a Snorlax could ever run to counter you! When was the last time you saw Crunch on Snorlax, c'mon brah!

Want another one?, Substitute

[gbwead]

4 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

EDIT: They exist, it doesn't mean it's the norm. Versatility is a uguu. 

There is no norm when it comes to Snorlax. There are different kind of cancers, but we all call them "cancers"; in PokeMMO, we call them Snorlax.

[NikhilR]

Take it Slow, Bro - Round 4:

NikhilR vs Maekaaay

 

Star Of The Show Finals:

Frags vs lAlejandrol