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Balance Horde (Special Attack EV training)


Uncandango

Question

Hey guys, this suggestion is to balance Special Attack EV training.

Currently Special Attack EV training falls behind by A LOT compared to ALL others stats.

 

Using the following data we can average the EV yielded per horde (sample sizes are 30 hordes/spot and remember that RNG is involved, yet it is enough to see discrepancies):

Spoiler

Attack

MT EMBER INTERIOR 2F
3 machop 2 machoke (3)
2 machop 3 machoke (7)
1 machop 4 machoke (13)
0 machop 5 machoke (7)
avg EV: 8,8/horde

 

Special Defense

TRAINER TOWER (Surfing)
4 tentacool 1 tentacruel (1)
3 tentacool 2 tentacruel (3)
2 tentacool 3 tentacruel (13)
0 tentacool 5 tentacruel (1)
5 mantine (12)
avg EV: 8,7/horde

 

Defense

MAGMA HIDEOUT
5 geodude 0 graveler - 4
4 geodude 1 graveler - 17
3 geodude 2 graveler - 5
2 geodude 3 graveler - 4
avg:6,3

 

KANTO VICTORY ROAD
2 machop 3 machoke - 2
1 graveler 4 onix - 1
3 graveler 2 onix - 1
1 marowak 1 graveler 3 onix - 1
1 marowak 2 graveler 2 onix - 2
2 marowak 1 graveler 2 onix - 2
2 marowak 2 graveler 1 onix - 1
3 marowak 2 onix - 2
3 marowak 1 graveler 1 onix - 2
5 sandslash - 16
avg:8,5

 

Hit Points

DESERT UNDERPASS
3 whismur 2 loudred - 4
2 whismur 3 loudred - 9
1 whismur 4 loudred - 11
0 whismur 5 loudred - 6
avg:8,6

 

Speed

FIVE ISLE MEADOW
4 pidgey 1 pidgeotto - 1
3 pidgey 2 pidgeotto - 1
2 pidgey 3 pidgeotto - 5
2 meowth 3 persian - 3
1 pidgey 4 pidgeotto - 6
1 meowth 4 persian - 6
0 meowth 5 persian - 5
0 pidgey 5 pidgeotto - 3
avg:8,8

 

Special Attack

METEOR FALLS 1F 2R (Night Only)
2 lunatone 3 solrock - 1
4 lunatone 1 solrock - 1
5 lunatone - 14
5 golbat - 14
avg: 5,06

 

CAPE BRINK (Surfing)
5 psyduck 0 golduck - 4
4 psyduck 1 golduck - 3
3 psyduck 2 golduck - 7
2 psyduck 3 golduck - 3
1 slowpoke 4 slowbro - 3
2 slowpoke 3 slowbro - 6
3 slowpoke 2 slowbro - 4

avg:3,7

 

MT EMBER RUBY PATH B3F
5 slugma - 100%
avg: 5

 

LOST CAVE
4 gastly 1 haunter - 1
3 gastly 2 haunter - 3
2 gastly 3 haunter - 16
5 golbat - 10
avg: 5,166

To summarize the average EV earned per horde (best spots only):

 

HP: 8,6 (Near to PC)

Att: 8,8 (Far, needs Leppa/Elixir)

Def: 8,5 (Near to PC)

Sp. Att: 5,16 (Far, needs Leppa/Elixir)

Sp. Def: 8,7 (Near to PC)

Speed: 8,8 (Near to PC)

 

So, currently Sp. Att takes around 70% more time to train then others stats, and if you count only near to PC spots, it takes 135% longer.

 

If someone knows a better place to train Special Attack, please tell me that I will check the average EV and update here.

 

Thanks.

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2 minutes ago, Bluejim said:

There are some magical items that can be bought in battle frontier and can give effort values, I think they are called

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 


VITAMINS
 

 

 

This is not the problem, it looks like something was forgotten.

Why there's no decent place for Sp Att? Is it intended? It just doesn't make sense, unless some dev shows up and say "Yes, we did SPA to take longer."

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Just now, Uncandango said:

This is not the problem, it looks like something was forgotten.

Why there's no decent place for Sp Att? Is it intended? It just doesn't make sense, unless some dev shows up and say "Yes, we did SPA to take longer."

I mean, someone has to buy vitamins. Otherwise why bother implement them in the first place.

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3 minutes ago, Bluejim said:

He is right, eving special attack is ass compared to other stats, personally I always use vitamins for special attack but I dont mind since its the only stat i buy vitamins for.

Even when that's a solution it shouldn't be like that, vitamins should be used when you're in a hurry and need a poke ev trained fast or just too lazy to ev train manually. It is still not a reason for why it should exist such a difference between the other 5 stats and that one. I agree with this suggestion, we should have better spots for sp atk

 

5 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

Have you tested Pokemon Tower next to the healing platform?

It's shit man, 3 evs is just dumb e.e not even mention all the cubones u get there

Edited by Arimanius
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Just now, Bluejim said:

He is right, eving special attack is ass compared to other stats, personally I always use vitamins for special attack but I dont mind since its the only stat i buy vitamins for.

Meteor Falls is perfect for special sweeper (SPA+SPEED at night). Those are the only pokes that I train when needed.

 

5 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

Have you tested Pokemon Tower next to the healing platform?

giphy.gif

 

Cubone rate is INSANE, didn't even bother to test.

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I usually use pattern bush for attack. You get hordes of 5 heracross there. Also 3 spinarak, which also give attack, and ledyba (special defense).

I usually use cape brink for special attack, since it's close to a pokemon center, gives decent EVs per psyduck/golduck horde and I can't afford wasting leppa berries on it. Sadly often gives defence in the form of slowpoke/slowbro hordes. Pokemon tower sucks, I only use it in the rain. At most it gives 4 EVs.

For speed I use the canyon entrace, since there's a guarateed 8 EVs per horde. I'll have to test 5 island meadow.

Best place for special defence is without a doubt trainer tower, with common mantine hordes and tentacool/tentacruel hordes.

For Hp I use route 114.

For defense I use the magma hideout, the geodude/graveler hordes tend to give good EVs.

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Currently it feels like in order of easiest to hardest EV training goes:

 

Speed
Sp. Def

Def

HP

Att

Sp.att

 

Def and Sp.def are roughly the same and I feel like Sp.att should be similar to Attack, it does feel painful to train Sp.att compared to every other stat.

 

I feel like Cubones AND Haunters shouldn't be able to appear on the floor with the healing circle in Pokemon Tower, so we get a x3 Horde of Gastly each time and that Cubone hordes are higher up and same with haunters.

 

That or make Golbat hordes rarer in lost cave or something, but yea, please balance this so its a little nicer to train Sp.Att

 

Edit: I also remember seeing @Darkshade saying he'll ask @Kyu about this cause it was brought up this week if I recall.

Edited by Matoka
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Pokemon tower has like a 50% change of cubone horde iirc, which makes it a bad Spot for the 3 evs you get. And its also wierd considering how rare cubone is by normal encounters

 

If speed+spatk i often go to lost cave, there is the occasional misdreavus. But slik scarves and the possibility for some badass shinies makes up for it

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Well, thats more depreciating pattern bush (ev atk spot) than making it cool.

Mixed ev spot are not apprecied :/ (Except Speed/Atk - Speed/SpAtk - Hp/Def - Hp/SpDef)

So, this is not really making SpAtk ev easier :x

Edited by Raederz
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40 minutes ago, Raederz said:

Well, thats more depreciating pattern bush (ev atk spot) than making it cool.

Mixed ev spot are not apprecied :/ (Except Speed/Atk - Speed/SpAtk - Hp/Def - Hp/SpDef)

So, this is not really making SpAtk ev easier :x

No?

 

OLD 1.121:
30% Heracross +2 ATK
30% Ledyba +1 SP_DEF
40% Spinarak +1 ATK

 

NEW 1.121:
50% Heracross +2 ATK
50% Beautifly +3 SP_ATK

 

You had a 70% chance to gain +(1|2) with a preference to +1, which reduces average to ~1.4/ea. Now you have a 50% chance to gain +2 which, after the % decrease, should result in a slightly higher average ATK gain.

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8 minutes ago, Kyu said:

No?

 

OLD 1.121:
30% Heracross +2 ATK
30% Ledyba +1 SP_DEF
40% Spinarak +1 ATK

 

NEW 1.121:
50% Heracross +2 ATK
50% Beautifly +3 SP_ATK

 

You had a 70% chance to gain +(1|2) with a preference to +1, which reduces average to ~1.4/ea. Now you have a 50% chance to gain +2 which, after the % decrease, should result in a slightly higher average ATK gain.

Sound better with %s :D

Thx for it

 

Make it long term exactely the same for atk and really cool for spatk

(all hordes are 5poke right ?)

Edited by Raederz
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