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Remove Sweet Scent failing in rain.


KaynineXL

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Firstly, I'd like to say I am aware that this is the mechanic in the higher generation Pokemon games, but I don't think that should stop us considering removing this hideous "mechanic" from PokeMMO because in my opinion it feels more like a bug than a mechanic. Not only is it confusing to those who are unaware of it, but it's just an annoyance overall and does not provide any benefits that I'm aware of.

 

>When rain occurs in the middle of EV training

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1 minute ago, KaynineXL said:

because in my opinion it feels more like a bug than a mechanic.

Just because it doesn't play out in your favour doesn't make it a bug.

 

If you're familiar with how Sweet Scent is supposed to work, it makes perfect sense:

 

Spores are released into the atmosphere which attract mass amounts of species.

When it rains of course, these spores are subdued.

 

I understand that this can be an inconvenience, but I think part of the problem here is how PokeMMO handles rain.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

Just because it doesn't play out in your favour doesn't make it a bug.

 

If you're familiar with how Sweet Scent is supposed to work, it makes perfect sense:

 

Spores are released into the atmosphere which attract mass amounts of species.

When it rains of course, these spores are subdued.

 

I understand that this can be an inconvenience, but I think part of the problem here is how PokeMMO handles rain.

 

 

Damn, used the logic card on me, nice.

 

I feel at the very least the message you get could be explained better as to why it doesn't work, maybe that would make it look less bugged.

 

edit:

D6yrjO1.png

 

As you can see above, Sweet Scent it not affected by weather conditions in Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, sure logically it makes sense that it shouldn't but I feel like for the sake of the game, this change could do a lot of good.

Edited by KaynineXL
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7 hours ago, KaynineXL said:

Damn, used the logic card on me, nice.

 

I feel at the very least the message you get could be explained better as to why it doesn't work, maybe that would make it look less bugged.

 

edit:

D6yrjO1.png

 

As you can see above, Sweet Scent it not affected by weather conditions in Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, sure logically it makes sense that it shouldn't but I feel like for the sake of the game, this change could do a lot of good.

Isn't the only weather effects in ORAS Sandstorm and Ash? (The latter which isn't even a real weather effect) I'm not even sure if it rains in the actual game apart from maybe around the weather institute so maybe thats the reason its unaffected by weather?

 

Also, it means I dont want to end thine own life by reading "IT IS RAINING" every time i enter a battle for all the battles

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There are so many gaps in logic in this game, so while i get your reasoning DS I'd say its a pretty poor argument. you can easily get away with that this might not techincally would work IRL. This feature doesnt add anything to the game other than being a nuisance. the Sweet scent thing is already nerfed enough with the PP usage. 

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19 minutes ago, Tritios said:

There are so many gaps in logic in this game, so while i get your reasoning DS I'd say its a pretty poor argument. you can easily get away with that this might not techincally would work IRL. This feature doesnt add anything to the game other than being a nuisance. the Sweet scent thing is already nerfed enough with the PP usage. 

Not to mention that when it starts to rain we have a lot of decent alternatives, right? RIGHT?

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47 minutes ago, Uncandango said:

Not to mention that when it starts to rain we have a lot of decent alternatives, right? RIGHT?

That's why I said:

Quote

but I think part of the problem here is how PokeMMO handles rain.

 

1 hour ago, Tritios said:

There are so many gaps in logic in this game, so while i get your reasoning DS I'd say its a pretty poor argument. you can easily get away with that this might not techincally would work IRL. This feature doesnt add anything to the game other than being a nuisance. the Sweet scent thing is already nerfed enough with the PP usage. 

Whilst it might be true that there are gaps in logic in some aspects of the game, there are usually good reasons for that (ease of development being the most prominent).

 

No matter how you look at it, with Sweet Scent taking 5PP or it taking just 1 is a huge increase in comparison to the EV training methods we have before.

 

The argument for the inability to use Sweet Scent in rain is not my own, but I am giving the explanation as to why.

Personally as a mechanic I think it's pretty neat, as it both gives rain another 'purpose' and adds a bit of variation to the game.

Also since it temporarily removes the ability to 'Mass EV train' in certain areas for short periods of time it gives the impression that the ability to do so is somewhat of a luxury more than it is just the standard rate.

This also forces you to move from the spot you're constantly training in, adding further variation.

 

That said, I do think it's important to get the amount of rain right, along with the duration of it being there.

PokeMMO has rain appear across an entire region, effectively locking off horde EV training in that region for as long as the rain lasts.

This is where I think the issue lies, although it's not the end of the world, just fairly annoying for that time period.

 

I suspect the reason they removed rain affecting hordes in OR/AS was due to complaints from X/Y about it being inconvenient.

But given that the games have become more and more casual over time (Look at the Destiny Knot mechanics/Shiny Rate etc. for example), it doesn't say an awful lot about whether it was a good idea.

Also in that same generation, Super Training was introduced - already half undermining the concept from the get-go.

 

tl;dr: I think the mechanic, whilst inconvenient does have some merits; it's just important to make sure that the duration and spread of rain is carefully timed/placed.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Uncandango said:

And about Special Attack only hordes (6+ EV/horde), we are missing it a lot. Did you choose not to implement it intentionally?

I think this might be an oversight, I'll ask Kyu later today.

 

5 minutes ago, Uncandango said:

So, TLDR; Deal with it. Ok then, its just annoying.

Maybe, it might require further developmental discussion.

I was just giving information/my opinion on the matter.

 

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1 hour ago, Uncandango said:

And about Special Attack only hordes (6+ EV/horde), we are missing it a lot. Did you choose not to implement it intentionally?

For Sp. Atk EV-Training, I usually go to Lost Cave. Sure, the healing spot isn't as convenient as it is in Pokémon Tower. (Leppa Berries and healing items will help a lot.) But you can get hordes of 5 that have Gastly/Haunter, which I tend to find at a higher rate than spamming Sweet Scent in Pokémon Tower. (Could be just luck, though.)

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15 minutes ago, RyukoNotsunaga said:

For Sp. Atk EV-Training, I usually go to Lost Cave. Sure, the healing spot isn't as convenient as it is in Pokémon Tower. (Leppa Berries and healing items will help a lot.) But you can get hordes of 5 that have Gastly/Haunter, which I tend to find at a higher rate than spamming Sweet Scent in Pokémon Tower. (Could be just luck, though.)

They are mixed with Golbat hordes, and pretty much common for a place where you don't want to waste leppas for running from battle...

Some quick examples:

 

24 hordes:

Haunter + Gastly: 17

Golbats: 7

 

The only place we have 100% spa is at Mt Ember Ruby Path BF3 (5x Slugma, 5 EV avg, when the others EVs gets 7-8 avg per horde)

All the other EV Stats have at least one dedicated place, so this is my question... wynaut spa?

Edited by Uncandango
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I normally use cape brink while surfing (You often get Psyduck/Golduck hordes), but it's really annoying whenever Slowpoke/Slowbro hordes show up. I once got 7 slowpoke/Slowbro hordes in a row, so it would be really nice if they implemented a place with only sp atk.

 

About  hordes in the rain, please remove the failing. Just yesterday I ragequit  when it started raining in the canyon entrance.

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Just now, Pokemonerd25 said:

I normally use cape brink while surfing (You often get Psyduck/Golduck hordes), but it's really annoying whenever Slowpoke/Slowbro hordes show up. I once got 7 slowpoke/Slowbro hordes in a row, so it would be really nice if they implemented a place with only sp atk.

 

About  hordes in the rain, please remove the failing. Just yesterday I ragequit  when it started raining in the canyon entrance.

I do the same... If im going to play with RNG with hordes, at least its close to PC and not wasting my berries.

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13 minutes ago, Uncandango said:

They are mixed with Golbat hordes, and pretty much common for a place where you don't want to waste leppas for running from battle...

Some quick examples:

 

24 hordes:

Haunter + Gastly: 17

Golbats: 7

 

The only place we have 100% spa is at Mt Ember Ruby Path B3F (5x Slugma, 5 EV avg, when the rest get 7-8 avg per horde)

All the other EV Stats have at least one dedicated place, so this is my question... wynaut spa?

That's definitely true. The same goes for Cubone in Pokémon Tower, though. And I tend to find hordes of Cubone much more than Gastly/Haunter for some odd reason. I did try Slugma before. Though I think I was in the wrong place, as I ran into a few hordes of Geodude as well. I still like Lost Cave better, as it's easier to get out of and return to (If you choose to go to the Pokémon Center and save your items.), and the EVs you can farm from there can be higher than in Mt. Ember. As for the amount of EVs you get per horde, try to have the Pokémon being trained in the front of your party, and have it hold the Macho Brace, swap it out immediately, and KO the hordes with a move like Surf. If you get a horde of Gastly/Haunter in Lost Cave, you could get anywhere between 10-20 EVs per-encounter.

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Well we got like mixed 3 and 4 gen.

How Sweet scent works in vanilla:

Spoiler

Generations II and III

Sweet Scent causes wild Pokémon to appear when used as a field move, provided the player is standing in an area where wild Pokémon would normally appear. Sweet Scent will cause a wild encounter even if Repel is in effect.

Generations IV and V

Sweet Scent can only be used under clear weather.

Generation VI

Sweet Scent will initiate a Horde Encounter if Horde Encounters can take place in the location it is used. Otherwise, a normal wild encounter will be triggered.

In Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, Sweet Scent is unaffected by the weather.

How it works in pokemmo:

Spoiler

Sweet Scent will initiate a Horde Encounter if Horde Encounters can take place in the location it is used. Otherwise, a normal wild encounter will be triggered.

Sweet Scent can only be used under clear weather.

Sure that weather can destroy our plans for horde shiny hunts/ev training but it's a part of the game. All we need to know is that Pokemmo is not on strict vanilla rules, let's name it 3.5 gen.

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25 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

So logically rain stops us from being able to use Sweet Scent?

 

If that's the case, I feel it's only fair that rain should water our plants while we're afk :)

Well by going through overworld weather system logic, yep ure right, but that means your berry can be flooded with rain and dmg your crops so i would not suggest this thing if i were at your place :)

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12 minutes ago, Qaztin said:

Well by going through overworld weather system logic, yep ure right, but that means your berry can be flooded with rain and dmg your crops so i would not suggest this thing if i were at your place :)

Well, as long as we don't manually water them over say... 2 droplets, they shouldn't get flooded unless we get some heavy storms. 

Edited by KaynineXL
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