[Rankings] The Best of PokeMMO

[NikhilR]

Since TT registrations allow you to register a maximum of 10, maybe make that as the cap? Because I look at Aw's lineup and all of them have been contributed in some way and it would unfair to leave BlueJim out or replace someone in there. 

[DoubleJ]

12 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

Since TT registrations allow you to register a maximum of 10, maybe make that as the cap? Because I look at Aw's lineup and all of them have been contributed in some way and it would unfair to leave BlueJim out or replace someone in there. 

I will consider, but for now it's time to dive into the books. Feel free to offer any more criticisms and I can make changes as necessary. Thanks for the feedback everyone!

 

EDIT: Bluejim and Giantpipe added to AW's player list

Edited May 30, 2016 by DoubleJ

[XPLOZ]

• Not sure about removing 2nd places. I mean a player with five 2nd places will most likely be better and steadier than a player with one 1st place and 0 2nd place. Rankings highly loses density. But yeah, it's a lot of work...
• Also, I think that  Tier Shift shouldn't be considered as a gimmick. It's actually played in official tiers (unlinke Monotype & other stuff), the player just need to show his versability (which is kinda hard)
• Finally, I am not sure that Leaderboard tournaments are worth 3points, especially in other tiers than OU. 

[DoubleJ]

35 minutes ago, XPLOZ said:

• Not sure about removing 2nd places. I mean a player with five 2nd places will most likely be better and steadier than a player with one 1st place and 0 2nd place. Rankings highly loses density. But yeah, it's a lot of work...
• Also, I think that  Tier Shift shouldn't be considered as a gimmick. It's actually played in official tiers (unlinke Monotype & other stuff), the player just need to show his versability (which is kinda hard)
• Finally, I am not sure that Leaderboard tournaments are worth 3points, especially in other tiers than OU. 

• Point allocation for 2nd place finishes are definitely out. A player with 1 first place and 0 second places does not qualify for this list, but I do agree that a player with 5 second places finishes is better than one first. Although that player did choke 5 times and has nothing to prove for it. A better comparison would be to have a player with 1 first and 4 seconds compared to a player with 2 firsts. Who is arguably the best player? Idk, and that's a grey area. Nevertheless, there is already a ton of complexity to each of these considering the variability in the type of tournaments that a player can win which adds to the "density" of this rankings list. 
• Tier Shift has been known as a "standard" win in all renditions of this list, but for me I feel like it is somewhat a gimmick considering many aspects of a standard official are removed such as scouting (a part of the game, deal with it) and counterteaming. This can be up for discussion though. 
• So you believe Leaderboard tournaments, where players have to qualify for, are equivalent to a standard official where any player can participate in? I personally don't. 

[gbwead]

I kinda agree with XPLOZ. In lower tiers, it is quite easy to "secure" a spot in leaderboard tournaments. In order to participate in the latest UU tourney, I only had to play in 2 ranked. Considering we don't even have full brackets for these tournaments, a player could win the tournament with only 3 consecutive victories. For each duel won, the winner gets 1 pt which is ridiculously high imo.

 

Edit: In standard 64 officials, for each duel won, the winner gets 1/3 pt.

Edited May 30, 2016 by lamerb

[DoubleJ]

5 minutes ago, lamerb said:

I kinda agree with XPLOZ. In lower tiers, it is quite easy to "secure" a spot in leaderboard tournaments. In order to participate in the latest UU tourney, I only had to play in 2 ranked. Considering we don't even have full brackets for these tournaments, a player could win the tournament with only 3 consecutive victories. For each duel won, the winner get 1 pt which is ridiculously high imo.

Well think of it this way, maybe this list will provide more reason for players to do ranked =)

[BurntZebra]

Well, as the master of the 2nd place, I have two arguments on why 2nd places should probably be counted. First, if you get 2nd place in a standard tournament, your name goes into the Hall of Fame. The Hall of Fame. That is where people are recognized for their achievements in tournaments. Even if you get 2nd place, you're still theoretically better than the 30 or 62 or 126 other people in the tournament. Secondly, since the beginning of tournaments, second place has been given a prize, along side first place. The staff see 2nd place as a somewhat significant achievement and therefore the individual receives a reward.

 

I also don't really believe that these tournament point scales are very accurate with the new tournaments that have more players. Getting to the finals of a 64 man tournament requires the same number of wins as winning a 32 man tournament. Getting to the finals of a 128 man tournament requires more wins than winning a 32 man tournament. Winning 7 battles in a row is no easy feat either. I don't really think someone who went 6-1 in one tournament should get 0 points, while someone who went 5-0 in another tournament should get 2 points or whatever the value is now. I also think someone who went 7-0 in a tournament should be awarded more than someone who went 5-0. I'll admit that this complicates things probably too much for whoever keeps track of this, but realistically, this is probably the least biased way of making a "best player list".

 

At the end of the day, I don't really care much about how the list is decided as it is not run officially by staff and the individual(s) running it at any given time could perhaps be biased, which impacts the rankings of people.

[DoubleJ]

2 minutes ago, BurntZebra said:

At the end of the day, I don't really care much about how the list is decided as it is not run officially by staff and the individual(s) running it at any given time could perhaps be biased, which impacts the rankings of people.

I was really appreciating the feedback up until this, so fuck off.

 

Seconds are out but, I do agree that 32 vs 64 vs 128 man tournaments should have some sort of point differential. I'll be thinking about how to do that in the coming days. Maybe the introduction of fractionated points. For example, 2 pts for 32; 2.5 pts for 64; 3 pts for 128 man. 

[DoubleJ]

Ok, let's determine scoring together family. We'll start from the top down I guess, which is the easiest to do:

• Master of Master's Invitational Champion
  • 5 Points
  • This was arguably the most prestigious event ever held by PokeMMO and included an entire invitational series that covered 3 tiers. Players had one year to earn an invite to a Master's event. The champion of that Master's event then competed in the Master of Master's tournament which included Frags (snuck in by default when KingBowser won two Master's events and ThinkNice dropped out), KingBowser (Master of 50's/Master of Doubles), and Amanu (Master of 100's). 
  • Frags was the eventual champion and the only player to earn the right to call himself Master of Masters
• Invitational Tournament Champions
  • 4 Points
  • These are tournaments which pit the best players against the best players in their respective tiers. These are typically standard qualifying tournaments which players can win to earn a spot in the final tournament. They are highly prestigious. 
  • Tournaments include: Master of 50's/100's/Doubles, UU Underdog Invitational, OU Spring Invitational, UU Summer Invitational, and the OU Winter Invitational
• League Tournament Champions
  • 4 Points (would like to make it only 3 points)
  • These are tournaments which include League play over the course of several weeks to determine seeding for the final tournament. Players must register for this tournament beforehand and participate weekly in order to qualify for the final tournament.
  • Tournaments include: NU Autumn League

 

Personally I feel the MoM and the Invitational series warrant their scores considering these are the biggest events in the game. The NU Autumn League kind of turned into a shit show considering the number of no-shows and the fact that it was limited to the 32 players that signed up initially. This makes me feel that it is a lesser event compared to the Invitational series and I personally would like to give only 3 points for it.

 

What do you guys think about the scoring for the top tier events in PokeMMO? If we agree on the first two, I may open a poll to vote on League Tournament points. 

 

 

EDIT: Will leave this up for 24 hours to hear discussion. After 24 hours I will make a final decision. 

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by DoubleJ

[DoubleJ]

Ok no discussion: Master of Master's shall be 5 points, Invitational tournament finals will be 4 points, and the NU Autumn Fall league will be moved to 3 points. 

 

Next discussion item: How many points should the "Old School Marathon" be allocated? This was a 3v3 Finale tournament where players qualified after placing in the top four of one of either two tournaments, which were OU and UU. In my opinion, it's an invitational gimmick that could warrant 2 points. Thoughts?

[DoubleJ]

Ok no discussion regarding the "Old School Marathon" tournament. I'll assign 2 points for that event, since it's more than a gimmick, but probably not outstanding enough to be considered for more than a standard official. 

 

Next Topic Item: Leaderboard tournaments are once a month and include players that were ranked in the Top 16 for each of their respective tiers. I would like to assign 2.5 points for these events considering they are standard tournaments with some qualifying factors. 

 

In addition, I feel that Qualifier Reserve tournaments should only be worth 1 point, similarly to a gimmick. They are limited to players that got 2nd place in a qualifier and typically only include 8-16 players. They aren't high profile in my opinion and should only be worth 1 point. 

 

Please let me know if you disagree with these. 

[Rendiz]

6 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Next Topic Item: Leaderboard tournaments are once a month and include players that were ranked in the Top 16 for each of their respective tiers. I would like to assign 2.5 points for these events considering they are standard tournaments with some qualifying factors. 

 

In addition, I feel that Qualifier Reserve tournaments should only be worth 1 point, similarly to a gimmick. They are limited to players that got 2nd place in a qualifier and typically only include 8-16 players. They aren't high profile in my opinion and should only be worth 1 point. 

 

Please let me know if you disagree with these. 

I think 2.5 for leaderboard sounds about fair considering the work they put in to be placed that high in the first place.

 

As far as reserve tournaments go i'm not even sure they should be worth any points considering that the player has 8 attempts to reach top 2 but was never able to even after most of the best players are no longer able to play. On the topic of invitational tournaments I don't think they should be scored as a standard official considering getting 1st on week 8 in the vast majority of cases would be far easier than getting 2nd on week 1.

[Arimanius]

Well like gbwead or xploz said I don't remember who it was and too lazy to search xD I wouldn't like uu or nu to get 2.5 points when this ranked system is not used enough for these tiers yet, for ou I do think 2.5 points is enough, it needs commitment and good participation to even classify for the leaderboard tournament, even more skills to win it so yeah I think it deserves those 2.5 but I wouldn't like uu and nu to get the same points, not yet at least. I would give 1.5 for those

[DoubleJ]

16 hours ago, Arimanius said:

Well like gbwead or xploz said I don't remember who it was and too lazy to search xD I wouldn't like uu or nu to get 2.5 points when this ranked system is not used enough for these tiers yet, for ou I do think 2.5 points is enough, it needs commitment and good participation to even classify for the leaderboard tournament, even more skills to win it so yeah I think it deserves those 2.5 but I wouldn't like uu and nu to get the same points, not yet at least. I would give 1.5 for those

I doubt I'd actually do that though because in these lists I try to be as non-subjective as possible, and that unfortunately is labeling something as inferior for no reason other than fewer people play it. 

[KaynineXL]

To the argument about 32 man/64 man/128 man tournaments - I feel like they shouldn't really have too much difference, I mean like, the majority of potential winners will get one or two rounds of stomping noobs and we've already been scoring 32 man and 64 man the same, you can't just backtrack that imo. At most, maybe an additional +0.5/1 for the 126 man I think.

 

Edit: Could we put the total points for the players/team next to their names outside the spoiler so we can skim through the list easier?

Edited June 3, 2016 by KaynineXL
yubel is a nub

[DoubleJ]

Nobody wants to remember the OGs so I'm going to discontinue my individuals list. Gbwead too strong. 

 

Teams #1 anyways. 

[DaftCoolio]

Best Rankings Threads of MMO when

[EricTheGreat]

no misc whole post is shit

[gbwead]

6 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Nobody wants to remember the OGs so I'm going to discontinue my individuals list. Gbwead too strong. 

 

Teams #1 anyways. 

Please don't. This is not a competition between ranking threads. The two ranking systems don't focus on the same things and present different visions of what being the best mean. Best of 2016 only looks at 2016 where as [Rankings] The Best of PokeMMO looks at everything. History only remembers the winners, so it makes sense in your thread to not give any points for second place finishers.

 

I really hope you change your mind. 

 

[XPLOZ]

10 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Gbwead too strong. 

 

 

[DoubleJ]

5 hours ago, lamerb said:

Please don't. This is not a competition between ranking threads. The two ranking systems don't focus on the same things and present different visions of what being the best mean. Best of 2016 only looks at 2016 where as [Rankings] The Best of PokeMMO looks at everything. History only remembers the winners, so it makes sense in your thread to not give any points for second place finishers.

 

I really hope you change your mind. 

 

There has always been a push by the community to remove the "Best of All-Time" list and begin a power rankings like system that is more present day. Whether it is players that dislike the idea of the Master's series holding so much weight or it's players frustrated and thinking that I'm biased and only doing this to promote my friends and teammates. 

 

Either way, I don't have the time and cannot commit the effort to continuing a Best of Players list. I really wanted to, but in the end I just can't. If I were I would also really want to have an equivalent scoring system between our lists, but that would take too much time, energy, and compromise by someone (likely me). 

So, Best Teams shall live on. Best Players is all yours. No hard feelers, just no energy and I don't want to split the community on who is where in the world of PokeMMO. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by DoubleJ
When you join medical school, expect your grammar to die.

[Frag]

I wonder if possible for someone (jj I hope) to make an alt forum account and share it with trustworthy ppl who would like to keep the thread(a new one) update, also with more ppl involved we can add 2nd places score and maybe attach gwead's thread to the new one.

 

[DrCraig]

2 hours ago, Frag said:

I wonder if possible for someone (jj I hope) to make an alt forum account and share it with trustworthy ppl who would like to keep the thread(a new one) update, also with more ppl involved we can add 2nd places score and maybe attach gwead's thread to the new one.

 

Good idea to potentially keep it up to date. Google Sheets group + comments for updates.

Edited June 3, 2016 by DrCraig
To dominance my exert course of

[Gruul]

ÁvE now got a 2nd place TT finish added to the win we had in the past :-)

[DoubleJ]

Update: Congrats to [RNG] for their back-to-back Team Tournament wins! And sorry for not updating this for like two months, was my bad. Anyhoos, team descriptions will now only include teams with 2 or more wins, so rip YOLO, they are now an Honorable Mention squad.