Jump to content
  • 0

Revert Berries Back (A Detailed Explanation)


TheArchon

Question

Ok, so now that I haven't heard anyone complain about berries in a while, let me just say this. 

IIRC, a staff member said that the berry update was made so that everyone could make a ton berries, resulting in them becoming cheaper than 1k (old Saffron price).

 

If this is true, it is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, as simple economics and psychology would tell you that berry prices would never drop below 1k. Why would they? Theoretically, you'd be losing money. And as this thread is posted, there are 0 berries below 1k. Some berries come damn near close, but I can 100% guarantee you that berries will not drop below 1k and remain at that price steadily in the upcoming (at least) 3 months. 

 

If this isn't true, then why would you fuck up berries for everyone? I see no upside to the berry update other than just the speculation of "oh, it'll drop below 1k," which hasn't proven true yet. Literally none. And I can't imagine, or at least I hope this isn't the case, devs just thought "hey let's just fuck everyone." Berry growers aren't making as much profit as they would in something like island runs, so what's the point in growing them? There is none. Need proof? I'm checking the amount of berries on GTL and there isn't a quantity of berries above 80, most sitting around 50. For god's sake there's only one fucking sitrus berry.

bbfd2a2d54.png

 

 

 

 

If you need a refresher on high school economics, let me help. Because of the update, berry supplies have tanked. You have to grow them now instead of there just being an unlimited supply, which costs money, and has little payoff. There are no incentives to growing berries besides using them for yourself, but that's not what we're talking about. On top of this, there has been a lot of PVP thanks to automated matchmaking, automated tournaments, leaderboards, better prizes, etc.

 

In short, the supply has been decreasing, and demand has been increasing. Here's a visual:

7d89e85cd4.jpg

 

So what's happening in this graph is the initial supply, represented by S, is negatively shifting (shifting to the left) to become the new supply, or supply prime, or S', or whatever you want to call it. This change represents the lack of berry growing, etc., which is resulting in a shortage of berries.

As you can probably guess, D, the initial demand, is positively shifting (shifting to the right) to become the new demand, blah blah blah, more PVP, you get the point.

The axis, P and Q represent Price and Quantity respectively. The point where the initial supply and initial demand meet is called the "equilibrium" which was originally the unlimited supply of berries for 1k a piece. When the supply and demand shift, they make a new equilibrium (with less supply and more demand), which as you can see, is higher on the P axis. You know what that means? Sure you do. I'm having fun.

 

Obviously, this is the very very basics of economics, but it's right there. The berry system isn't an exception to any economy.

So what I'm saying is that it's not too late, just revert back to buying berries in Saffron because the berry update is not benefiting anyone.

What do you guys think?

Edited by TheArchon
Title
Link to post

Recommended Posts

  • 0
11 minutes ago, TheArchon said:

So what I'm saying is that it's not too late, just revert back to buying berries in Saffron because the berry update is not benefiting anyone.

 

Didn't read most of this, but isn't berry farming like a "job" now? It benefits the dedicated farmers doesn't it? Because there are tons of players too lazy/not active enough to farm themselves, so they buy berries.

Link to post
  • 0
30 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

The problem with berries is that the supply has not reached a stable point in which to make any judgements on the system. The current mechanics are still very new and the economic impact from these changes has yet to be fully seen. Economic effects never take place immediately, but instead over time.

Hm, I suppose you're right, I was only thinking short term. It is still one big if though as to whether it will become stable. Thank you for the reply

Link to post
  • 0

First off, I think anyone that reads this whole thing and understands it deserves a cookie. Maybe it's just me, but this very fine graph is hard to read without static numbers. 

That being said, I personally have not used a single berry since farming became a thing. In all my battles (which are now full of Leftovers and Choice items), I've seen maybe 4-5 berries used altogether. I do really miss the convenience of buying berries. It was one of my favorite things about this game, so my opinion is obviously biased against farming, but If the berry economy ever evens out, I highly doubt it will be anywhere near where it needs to be to allow berry-dependent movesets to be viable again (at least that means no more Salac bellyzard).

Link to post
  • 0

Im pretty sure berryfarming is the quickest and most effective way of making money atm. You can pretty easily make 150k a Day and only play for like an hour each Day. With a few alts you can pump out an enourmos amount of berries. 

The only thing that stands in the way is that you have to able to login every 8-12 hours, which alot of us dont have.

 

Sry i didnt really bother to read your whole economy part, but you can still make money by selling them under 1k easily, there just arent enough farmers atm.

 

If you cant find a specific berry on gtl, ask someone who grows alot of berries to grow them for you, not sure how man there are of those atm. But i am one of them. 

Link to post
  • 0

I need to point out that the used graph does not fit the example of the berry market.

As you said youself, the initial supply of berries was indefinite, which results in its graph S to deviate horizontally, intersecting the y-axis at the price of 1k

Link to post
  • 0
10 hours ago, Champlooo said:

 

Didn't read most of this, but isn't berry farming like a "job" now? It benefits the dedicated farmers doesn't it? Because there are tons of players too lazy/not active enough to farm themselves, so they buy berries.

No, as I said in the post, if you would have liked to read it before commenting, there aren't very many incentives to be a berry farmer. You could make a lot more money a lot quicker elsewhere

5 hours ago, BigShotJoe said:

First off, I think anyone that reads this whole thing and understands it deserves a cookie. Maybe it's just me, but this very fine graph is hard to read without static numbers. 

That being said, I personally have not used a single berry since farming became a thing. In all my battles (which are now full of Leftovers and Choice items), I've seen maybe 4-5 berries used altogether. I do really miss the convenience of buying berries. It was one of my favorite things about this game, so my opinion is obviously biased against farming, but If the berry economy ever evens out, I highly doubt it will be anywhere near where it needs to be to allow berry-dependent movesets to be viable again (at least that means no more Salac bellyzard).

The graph was just supposed to be conceptual, but yes I agree with your second part

2 hours ago, Tritios said:

Im pretty sure berryfarming is the quickest and most effective way of making money atm. You can pretty easily make 150k a Day and only play for like an hour each Day. With a few alts you can pump out an enourmos amount of berries. 

The only thing that stands in the way is that you have to able to login every 8-12 hours, which alot of us dont have.

 

Sry i didnt really bother to read your whole economy part, but you can still make money by selling them under 1k easily, there just arent enough farmers atm.

 

If you cant find a specific berry on gtl, ask someone who grows alot of berries to grow them for you, not sure how man there are of those atm. But i am one of them. 

None of this is true at all. 150k a day is garbage compared to most other ways of making money. To make 150k, you do have to have multiple characters growing berries at a time which can be a hassle. And 150k for 8-12 hours of waiting? Come on now. You can make 150k in an hour of island running and you get the money up front instead of having to wait for the berries to grow and sell. I doubt you could make money selling them under 1k because some seed prices are still above 1k. And yes there aren't very many berry farmers because why would you be a berry farmer? There's no point. 

Read this please: 

Spoiler

 

 

59 minutes ago, Anthrazit said:

I need to point out that the used graph does not fit the example of the berry market.

As you said youself, the initial supply of berries was indefinite, which results in its graph S to deviate horizontally, intersecting the y-axis at the price of 1k

The graph was gotten from google images and was supposed to just explain briefly how supply and demand works, but yes, the graph is not an accurate representation of the berry economy.

Link to post
  • 0
13 hours ago, XelaKebert said:

The problem with berries is that the supply has not reached a stable point in which to make any judgements on the system. The current mechanics are still very new and the economic impact from these changes has yet to be fully seen. Economic effects never take place immediately, but instead over time.

Here's solutions for problem:

 

1) Make npc selling berries with limited number of them per player(like 3, 5 or 10 of each per week).

 

Pros:

*Players still can get small ammout of berries(no need to HUNT them on GTL)

*Small ammount of them allow/encourage players to start farming them

*Probably will help ballance berry market

 

Cons:

*Some players can store berries and sell them on GTL when the price will be "worth"

*Small ammount of "free" berry will not be inadequate for players needs at very begining

 

2) Make npc that can buy/sell berries from/for players. The price will depend on npc stock: if npc got plenty of A berry, then its cheaper that berry B which is in very small ammount.

 

Pros:

*Balanced supply/demand market berry

*Farming berries will be alternative way to get better money, means that hard working players are rewarded

 

Cons:

*There is possible situation that stock will be empty or players will exploit this system by buying all the stocks and mass selling on max prices

 

3) Make mashup of 1) and 2) ideas.

Link to post
  • 0
3 hours ago, TheArchon said:

No, as I said in the post, if you would have liked to read it before commenting, there aren't very many incentives to be a berry farmer. You could make a lot more money a lot quicker elsewhere

I read your wall. How can you straight up say there are no incentives to growing berries lmao it's a different, much less intensive way to make money. Sure you have to wait 8-12 hours for a berry, but literally all you have to do when you log in is a click a few buttons and hop off. 150k from an isle run takes a LOT more attention/button clicking. People who can hop on for a second every third/half a day hardly have to try

 

Just because something is quicker doesn't mean it's automatically gonna be everyone's favorite. Some people just like farming, and since you CAN make money from it, gg. There are established berry farmers, they just sell to friends/in trade corner

 

I feel like you just don't want it to work tbh

 

Link to post
  • 0
1 hour ago, Qaztin said:

Here's solutions for problem:

 

1) Make npc selling berries with limited number of them per player(like 3, 5 or 10 of each per week).

 

Pros:

*Players still can get small ammout of berries(no need to HUNT them on GTL)

*Small ammount of them allow/encourage players to start farming them

*Probably will help ballance berry market

 

Cons:

*Some players can store berries and sell them on GTL when the price will be "worth"

*Small ammount of "free" berry will not be inadequate for players needs at very begining

 

2) Make npc that can buy/sell berries from/for players. The price will depend on npc stock: if npc got plenty of A berry, then its cheaper that berry B which is in very small ammount.

 

Pros:

*Balanced supply/demand market berry

*Farming berries will be alternative way to get better money, means that hard working players are rewarded

 

Cons:

*There is possible situation that stock will be empty or players will exploit this system by buying all the stocks and mass selling on max prices

 

3) Make mashup of 1) and 2) ideas.

 

These new mechanics are about a month old. That is far too soon to say supply is in disarray and the mechanics are not working. The biggest con to all of those is that alts exist and nothing short of making those berries character bound will stop players from making alts and never farming. Making those berries character bound would then do nothing to steady the supply of berries so then players would be back at square one.

Link to post
  • 0
6 hours ago, Tritios said:

Im pretty sure berryfarming is the quickest and most effective way of making money atm. You can pretty easily make 150k a Day and only play for like an hour each Day. With a few alts you can pump out an enourmos amount of berries. 

The only thing that stands in the way are re-sellers.

90% this

-

wtf i can't even quote long posts you kidding me

-

4 hours ago, TheArchon said:

None of this is true at all. 150k a day is garbage compared to most other ways of making money. To make 150k, you do have to have multiple characters growing berries at a time which can be a hassle. And 150k for 8-12 hours of waiting?

It's an alternative, ill farm berries all day long over mind killing payday or island runs, plus those 8-12 hours of waiting can be invested in something else. Id estimate that farming your 33 soft soil spots barely consumes 1h per day, thats 3h for the longest berries (salac, liechi, petaya). 33 plants with an average production of 17 each is 550+ ish berries. If they go for 1k thats 550K in 3 days for 3 hours actively invested.

 

"I doubt you could make money selling them under 1k because some seed prices are still above 1k."

 

This is another fallacy. The shortest growth berries (16h) are the best way to get seeds. You get no shit out of buying seeds, only noobs do that. Each berry will produce 2 or 3 seeds of the flavor you choose (chesto, pecha, etc). Those take 16h and require watering each 8h (maybe modified again after update ffs Kyu). Each plant will yield an average of 5 berries, so 33x5 = 165 berries out of 1h-ish invested in planting, watering twice and collecting. Those 165 berries should give you (aprox alot) 240+ plain seeds and 80+ very seeds, these are enough seeds to plant three batches of berries, and if you got some undesired ones you can even trade them or sell them to noobs for hilarious profit.

 

what the system currently lacks is consistency, all these balancing really puts farmers at bay, besides market instability and the fact that stingy people won't buy comp berries for more than 1k

Link to post
  • 0

Is there a tutorial for berry farming, in-game? Cause I don't think a lot of new players understand how it works. And if supply does become an issue, then I think this should be looked into in order to increase participation.

Link to post
  • 0
58 minutes ago, Gilan said:

Is there a tutorial for berry farming, in-game? Cause I don't think a lot of new players understand how it works. And if supply does become an issue, then I think this should be looked into in order to increase participation.

This. 9/10 players don't even know we have forums. There should be some kind of in-game tutorial. Would be really helpful 

Link to post
  • 0
7 hours ago, Champlooo said:

I read your wall. How can you straight up say there are no incentives to growing berries lmao it's a different, much less intensive way to make money. Sure you have to wait 8-12 hours for a berry, but literally all you have to do when you log in is a click a few buttons and hop off. 150k from an isle run takes a LOT more attention/button clicking. People who can hop on for a second every third/half a day hardly have to try

 

Just because something is quicker doesn't mean it's automatically gonna be everyone's favorite. Some people just like farming, and since you CAN make money from it, gg. There are established berry farmers, they just sell to friends/in trade corner

 

I feel like you just don't want it to work tbh

 

You're being awfully optimistic and a uguu tbh. Never did I say there were no incentives to berry farming, just not as many as other ways of making money. Also, it doesn't take "a few clicks" to to do the job. To make a significant amount of money, you'd have to have a good amount of alts growing berries at a time. It still may not take as much work as island runs, but when you want to make money what would you rather do? Log on five times throughout the day to click the same thing on five different alts AND THEN wait to sell on gtl, or island run in an hour. Also, island running is pretty mindless. Given that you have a mind... 

 

7 hours ago, Champlooo said:

 

Just because something is quicker doesn't mean it's automatically gonna be everyone's favorite.

There are established berry farmers, they just sell to friends/in trade corner

 

Completely irrelevant. Also not true at all. If this was true, I could get a stack of sitrus berries if I were to play doubles in an instant, but there are only 17 on gtl rn. 

Why in the flying fuck would I want to track down someone on trade corner, to find that they aren't even online when I need a chesto berry before my battle. 

 

Don't post on my thread again.

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, axx said:

Im pretty sure berryfarming is the quickest and most effective way of making money atm. You can pretty easily make 150k a Day and only play for like an hour each Day. With a few alts you can pump out an enourmos amount of berries. 

The only thing that stands in the way are re-sellers.

                                     90% this

0% this

Here you go buddy, if you didn't see it before

Spoiler

 

 

Also, I don't really know that much about seeds so I'll take your word for that.

 

And why would it be stingy? If a berry used to be 1k and if I could get as many as I want, why would I want to pay 1.5k for a couple of them, then buy a couple for 1.7k, etc.? Stingy or just being smart?

 

 

Link to post
  • 0

If you were smart you could figure out how easy farming berries is. Producing is cheap, growing them is easy, but there won't be a market until you get out of the mindset "mu-muh 1k berries". If you want berries for yourself it should be free, before this was not an option. If you want cheap berries ask your team to farm them for you, in the GTL you won't find anything but profiters (re-sellers) unless you go snip hunting for "cheap" deals. Example:

5 hours ago, GokuSSGSS said:

I Bought 102 lum berries each 900$ ( ͡o ͜ʖ ͡o) (On GTL)

In the old system, players could dump millions in the berry merchant, this yen was gone for good. In the new system the yen goes to the hands of other players that will spend in something else BPs/Vanities/Comps/Shinnies (again, unless you give it to re-sellers that got the nasty habit of hoarding yen). 

 

tl;dr the new system gives you free berries if you got time, cheap berries if you got friends and expensive berries if you are a uguu.

 

Edited by axx
lol edit reason
Link to post
  • 0
3 minutes ago, axx said:

If you were smart you could figure out how easy farming berries is. Producing is cheap, growing them is easy, but there won't be a market until you get out of the mindset "mu-muh 1k berries". If you want berries for yourself it should be free, before this was not an option. If you want cheap berries ask your team to farm them for you, in the GTL you won't find anything but profiters (re-sellers) unless you go snip hunting for "cheap" deals. Example:

In the old system, players could dump millions in the berry merchant, this yen was gone for good. In the new system the yen goes to the hands of other players that will spend in something else BPs/Vanities/Comps/Shinnies (again, unless you give it to re-sellers that got the nasty habit of hoarding yen). 

 

tl;dr the new system gives you free berries if you got time, cheap berries if you got friends and expensive berries if you are a uguu.

 

Well first of all, I did farm berries for a few weeks. It was boring and I didn't make nearly as much as I wanted, and ultimately it was a waste of time. The reason I made this post was because it looks like people feel the same way, what with the berries not being available and whatnot. Also, you guys are using the argument that people should just make them for themselves or their team and I specifically said in the original post that that's "not what we're talking about" so you can be done with that. There shouldn't be a fucking need to ask people for cheap berries when berries used to be cheap before they fucked the game up. If you are using the argument of "the money goes no where" go complain about gtl eating money, pvp eating bp, mail eating money, etc. Stop using shitty arguments to play devil's advocate, I haven't met one person yet who likes the berry update and for good reason. Also, I don't need a tldr because unlike everyone else here, I actually read.

 

tl;dr: you're wrong, and can stop posting on my thread as well 

Link to post
  • 0
30 minutes ago, TheArchon said:

Well first of all, I did farm berries for a few weeks. It was boring and I didn't make nearly as much as I wanted, and ultimately it was a waste of time. The reason I made this post was because it looks like people feel the same way, what with the berries not being available and whatnot. Also, you guys are using the argument that people should just make them for themselves or their team and I specifically said in the original post that that's "not what we're talking about" so you can be done with that. There shouldn't be a fucking need to ask people for cheap berries when berries used to be cheap before they fucked the game up. If you are using the argument of "the money goes no where" go complain about gtl eating money, pvp eating bp, mail eating money, etc. Stop using shitty arguments to play devil's advocate, I haven't met one person yet who likes the berry update and for good reason. Also, I don't need a tldr because unlike everyone else here, I actually read.

 

tl;dr: you're wrong, and can stop posting on my thread as well 

Imagine a long rant here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

tl;dr: I hope you enjoyed reading that... I for one like the new breeding system. I just think it's underutilized by the majority of the player base, which results in the unfortunate scenario where players who don't want to farm don't have the best access to berries.

Edited by Gilan
removed rant because it wasn't related to PokeMMO and I don't want a warning point
Link to post
  • 0
1 minute ago, Gilan said:

tl;dr: I hope you enjoyed reading that... I for one like the new breeding system. I just think it's underutilized by the majority of the player base, which results in the unfortunate scenario where players who don't want to farm don't have the best access to berries.

I agree it is underutilized because of the reasons we've been discussing, which is why I brought this to attention. Go back to how it was or at least change it please

Link to post
  • 0
36 minutes ago, TheArchon said:

Go back to how it was or at least change it please

There, first smart claim from your end in "your" thread (lol).

 

Now try to elaborate on how do you want the current system to be modified so you are able to farm berries, but wait, you just acknowledged that at some point you farmed berries, in fact for "a few weeks", but it was "boring and I didn't make nearly as much as I wanted, and ultimately it was a waste of time. "

 

So you can farm berries albeit its "boring", "you don't make as many as you want" and its "a waste of time". The berries you farm are free berries. So this whole thread purpose is that you prefer to pay 1k for a berry instead of getting it for free?

 

It starts to sound that you were expecting the new system to give you cheaper berries. Oh wait, it does give you cheaper berries, whats cheaper than free? Why does this not reflect in the GTL? There are several reasons beyond "hur-dur berries be hard give 1k berries back" (cough did i meantion re-sellers before?)

 

Back to your rambling,

"The reason I made this post was because it looks like people feel the same way, what with the berries not being available and whatnot."

Berries are available, not int the GTL, but I can tell you with high certainty that many players are at peace with the current system because they got time, or they got friends, or the got a team section specifically designed to farm berries. Now if you would stop "wasting time" asking for a "going back" that will never happen, and not even giving alternatives to "fix" the current system, and instead go think on how to take advantage of the new system you would figure out that it is not actually bad.

 

Ergo, if you decide to keep on wasting time and push for a "change" in the current system you have clearly been missing all the posts from desu stating that "berry farming is not for everyone" and the works from kyu trying to "balance" the berry production.

 

tl;dr You Read Nothing, Jon Snow.

Edited by axx
forgot some it
Link to post
  • 0
5 minutes ago, axx said:

There, first smart claim from your end in "your" thread (lol).

 

Now try to elaborate on how do you want the current system to be modified so you are able to farm berries, but wait, you just acknowledged that at some point you farmed berries, in fact for "a few weeks", but it was "boring and I didn't make nearly as much as I wanted, and ultimately it was a waste of time. "

 

So you can farm berries albeit its "boring", "you don't make as many as you want" and its "a waste of time". The berries you farm are free berries. So this whole thread purpose is that you prefer to pay 1k for a berry instead of getting it for free?

 

It starts to sound that you were expecting the new system to give you cheaper berries. Oh wait, it does give you cheaper berries, whats cheaper than free? Why does this not reflect in the GTL? There are several reasons beyond "hur-dur berries be hard give 1k berries back" (cough did i meantion re-sellers before?)

 

Back to your rambling,

"The reason I made this post was because it looks like people feel the same way, what with the berries not being available and whatnot."

Berries are available, not int the GTL, but I can tell you with high certainty that many players are at peace with the current system because they got time, or they got friends, or the got a team section specifically designed to farm berries. Now if you would stop "wasting time" asking for a "going back" that will never happen, and not even giving alternatives to "fix" the current system, and instead go think on how to take advantage of the new system you would figure out that it is not actually bad.

 

Ergo, if you decide to keep on wasting time and push for a "change" in the current system you have clearly been missing all the posts from desu stating that "berry farming is not for everyone" and the works from kyu trying to "balance" the berry production.

 

tl;dr You Read Nothing, Jon Snow.

Oh my you're quite clueless. Just a reminder that the berry update has only been out for a month so a couple weeks would be about half of the time it's been effective.

 

Nothing is free. Berries need seeds to make them which cost money. Also, this maybe a little too advanced for you, there is a thing called "oppurtunity cost." In the time I would be logging on to click shit on five different characters, I could be playing the market, doing island runs, alt runs, etc. in that same time. So not only does it cost money to grow berries, but it also costs time. Does that make sense to you? Course not.

 

If you read the post, I didn't expect shit to be cheaper, staff did. That was the whole point of the fucking post. Again, berries are not free.

 

Why would anyone want to be a bltch and be the team berry farmer? They'd get nothing out of it, especially not a good amount of money. Why would I want to search for people selling berries when I could just fly to saffron and get as many as I want for cheaper?
 

The system is flawed and needs to be changed. Why should I fucking have to find a way to "work around the system?" That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard.

 

TLDR: You would've proven your point better if you just would've stopped posting. Here's your second chance.

 

Link to post
  • 0
2 minutes ago, TheArchon said:

Why would anyone want to be a bltch and be the team berry farmer? They'd get nothing out of it, especially not a good amount of money.

 

When you didn't have friends growing up and don't understand the concept

 

Why would I want to search for people selling berries when I could just fly to saffron and get as many as I want for cheaper?

Because you can't fly to saffron and buy berries LMAO

 

Link to post
  • 0
12 minutes ago, TheArchon said:

Berries need seeds to make them which cost money. 

Lets go slower this time, a berry produces a berry tree, each berry tree yields several berries (hint: more than one if you have a couple working neurons). Each new berry will give you seeds. Seeds harvested from free berries are free seeds, with a small cost for the harvesting tool (to staff: give out the unbreakable harvesting tool already yo).

In a previous post that you probably didn't read, I explained that a patch of berries produces enough seeds to plant three more patches (i have never factored alts, if you are willing to go that far do so). If you translate it to breeding is as if each couple of parents produced six eggs, six! :)

 

"In the time I would be logging on to click shit on five different characters, I could be playing the market, doing island runs, alt runs, etc. in that same time. So not only does it cost money to grow berries, but it also costs time."

Again, not using alts. Alts won't get you far in the suggestion box.

This is the biggest nonsense you speak out. As I previously mentioned, you only invest 1h (1h = 60min) per day to get berries. Then do nothing for 8-12h (8-12h = a shiton of minutes). All this time you are not required to stay vigilant of your berries, you can go island run, or snipe the GTL or farm the nth alt, ikd whatever rings your fancy bells.

In your own words:

"Does that make sense to you? Course not."

 

"The system is flawed and needs to be changed. Why should I fucking have to find a way to "work around the system?" That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard."

You are in for a tough ride. And you are already doing this unconsciously. Is not farming alts a "work around" for the current system?

 

tl;dr since you have this much free time you need to read again, start from reading your own posts, or maybe something more enriching such as the whole trash section or xela's posts on economics or rache's reasons to deny the PC in secret bases. 

 

tl;dr.2 eh that first tl;dr was quite long.
.

Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.