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Kizhaz

Battle Timer Notification

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Pretty sure this was suggested but I went through pages of rip thread w/out finding it so idk.

 

Once the time hits 30 seconds we should get a sound notification to warn the player they're almost out of time. When I battle I rarely look at the timer unless I've already made my move, but a person that's running out of time generally is too focused on the battle to notice the timer (they wouldn't be running out of time if they we're destroying the opponent)

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Could also be a Battle Notification or something that sort in case one does not like in-game sounds. Also I think 20 seconds left would be better because that's like really the danger zone, people often go under 30 seconds purposely when making a game deciding decision and that notification might just disturb you then. 

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This is something that has been brought up a few times in the past.

 

Personally I'm not sure whether I like it, as it promotes the ability to calculate things in the middle of the battle.

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This is something that has been brought up a few times in the past.

 

Personally I'm not sure whether I like it, as it promotes the ability to calculate things in the middle of the battle.

 

The only reason I bring this up is because I got timed out in the official, I wasnt calcing or anything, just planning my options. As Golden said the current timer doesn't exactly stop calcing anyway. I will agree calcing would be easier with a notification sound but its not like it isn't already possible, only now we have to keep track of the timer whilst calculating

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This is something that has been brought up a few times in the past.

 

Personally I'm not sure whether I like it, as it promotes the ability to calculate things in the middle of the battle.

I am free to spend the time on my clock however I want. If I want to calc during a battle, I can, and so can you. I don't calc when I have a timer, but I should be able to do so. Stop trying to come up with reasons to shut down a good idea.

 

EDIT: I'm also fine with a visual cue, if you think that a sound notification is somehow game-breaking.

Edited by PandaJJ

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I am free to spend the time on my clock however I want. If I want to calc during a battle, I can, and so can you. I don't calc when I have a timer, but I should be able to do so. Stop trying to come up with reasons to shut down a good idea.

 

You absolutely are, I am physically unable to stop you from spending that time you how wish, however as a designer that doesn't mean that I have to make it easy for you to calculate things mid-battle.

 

 

If we allowed people to actively calculate, in my opinion we might as well go the full way and include damage % outputs on your opponent visually.

 

Why?

 

Because then you're just giving the advantage to people who have the initiative to open up a tab on their browser and put in two species names, some stats and a move - this doesn't really take any skill.

 

Calculating is essentially cheating, I'm fully aware that working out what to do in particular scenarios does take skill but I also think that a decent amount of skill goes into learning/knowing how much damage each skill does against a certain foe and in certain situations etc.

 

Now I have no issue with % displays in the HP bar, with the battle text telling you how much damage a move did - but that's a different situation altogether, as you have now made a decision and the game would then be trying to help you learn from it.

 

The only reason I bring this up is because I got timed out in the official, I wasnt calcing or anything, just planning my options. As Golden said the current timer doesn't exactly stop calcing anyway. I will agree calcing would be easier with a notification sound but its not like it isn't already possible, only now we have to keep track of the timer whilst calculating

 

I agree that calcing certainly isn't impossible with the current timer, but it does put some pressure on - and I don't think you'd be able to consistently get away with it for every turn.

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Darkshade: If this is how you feel about it, that's fine. However, any game I have ever played that has used a timer of this sort has had some sort of cue that you are running out of time. Why? Because they are strategical games where you totally focus on what is going on, and you may lose track of time. Having to frequently look at the timer, which in this case is small and anonymous, distracts you from actually playing the game. If you feel that a sound notification will help out people who use calculators, then I would like a visual cue. Big, red, flashing numbers or something of the sort. I'm pretty sure we can solve this problem together if we try.

Edited by PandaJJ

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Darkshade: If this is how you feel about it, that's fine. However, any game I have ever played that has used a timer of this sort has had some sort of cue that you are running out of time. Why? Because they are strategical games where you totally focus on what is going on, and you may lose track of time. Having to frequently look at the timer, which in this case is small and anonymous, distracts you from actually playing the game. If you feel that a sound notification will help out people who use calculators, then I would like a visual cue. Big, red, flashing numbers or something of the sort. I'm pretty sure we can solve this problem together if we try.

 

I'm completely fine with a visual indication - when we first implemented the timer I put forward the idea of having the number change colour as the time went down.

I think it would be a good idea to have them also 'get larger and shrink again' to help you spot them if you're already looking at the battle window.

I'm unsure on a sound effect, as it means you can completely ignore the battle window and still be notified as to when your time is running out.

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I'm completely fine with a visual indication - when we first implemented the timer I put forward the idea of having the number change colour as the time went down.

I think it would be a good idea to have them also 'get larger and shrink again' to help you spot them if you're already looking at the battle window.

I'm unsure on a sound effect, as it means you can completely ignore the battle window and still be notified as to when your time is running out.

Honestly, I don't mind either. As long something changes to the timer to get our attention because right now it's just idle in the background, everyone knows it's there, but you don't realise it much while focusing.

 

Sound effect or not, people will still use calcs.

Edited by KaynineXL

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You absolutely are, I am physically unable to stop you from spending that time you how wish, however as a designer that doesn't mean that I have to make it easy for you to calculate things mid-battle.

 

 

If we allowed people to actively calculate, in my opinion we might as well go the full way and include damage % outputs on your opponent visually.

 

Why?

 

Because then you're just giving the advantage to people who have the initiative to open up a tab on their browser and put in two species names, some stats and a move - this doesn't really take any skill.

 

Calculating is essentially cheating, I'm fully aware that working out what to do in particular scenarios does take skill but I also think that a decent amount of skill goes into learning/knowing how much damage each skill does against a certain foe and in certain situations etc.

 

Now I have no issue with % displays in the HP bar, with the battle text telling you how much damage a move did - but that's a different situation altogether, as you have now made a decision and the game would then be trying to help you learn from it.

 

 

I agree that calcing certainly isn't impossible with the current timer, but it does put some pressure on - and I don't think you'd be able to consistently get away with it for every turn.

Oh my god. And you're in charge of the tier council? I've never seen a comment so out of touch with the reality of competitive play.

 

First, you are completely dismissing the nuances of calcing. If I've got an Aerodactyl and my opponent has a swampert at around 50% health, in order to calc whether swamp lives a double edge I'd need to know what kind of swampert that is. The only way to do this is to use the context clues of the battle - is it a physically defensive swampert? How much investment? Perhaps it's specially defensive, or a curse swampert, or a choice band swampert. All these things change what goes into a calc, and getting any of these things wrong can result in you losing a pokemon or making the wrong decision. (Not to mention we aren't in a battle simulator, and differences in IVs can also be crucial to accurate calcs)

 

Second, a calc isn't foolproof, anyways. As I'm SURE you're aware (please, please be aware of this) damaging moves have a range of damage they can do. Here's the damage a life orb abomasnow blizzard can do to another abomasnow in gen 6 (yes, its the first thing the calc shows when you open it, but i'm lazy atm)

 

(211, 214, 216, 218, 220, 224, 226, 227, 231, 234, 235, 238, 242, 243, 246, 250)
 
You may run a calc that shows your pokemon has a 45% chance of living a certain attack (assuming you correctly gathered the spread your opponent is running, which isn't always easy). Please, explain to me how that is cheating? You still have an enormous decision to make - you just put yourself in a better position to make that decision. To suggest that players should have all possible damage percentages memorized in case they come up in battle, lest they be considered cheaters, is absolutely ridiculous.
 
Lastly, let's address this little gem:
"Because then you're just giving the advantage to people who have the initiative to open up a tab on their browser and put in two species names, some stats and a move - this doesn't really take any skill."
 
That's a bold statement to make coming from someone who endorses this game's current breeding/Eving/move tutoring mechanics (each of which takes little to no skill and gives the advantage to players with the initiative/time to sink). In fact, that reductionist argument reveals your huge misunderstanding of competitive play - it's a battle of information.
 
I see the need for the battle timer, as we certainly don't want people sitting there calculating every single move. Why, because it's "essentially cheating?" No - because that would waste a bunch of time.

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Massive overreaction to previous post

 

I'm aware of the various additional stat boosts that a comp may have Gunthug.

 

I didn't claim that calcing was 100% conclusive, however obviously it give an advantage to those participating in it otherwise they wouldn't bother.

I'm not against calcing in preparation, but I think calculating in the middle of a battle is disrespectful to your opponent and shows a lack of skill.

 

Build your team effectively, calculate outside of your battle time and get a better understanding of what sort of damage you can deal/can be dealt to you but try not to calculate things in the middle of a competitive battle.

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I'm aware of the various additional stat boosts that a comp may have Gunthug.

 

I didn't claim that calcing was 100% conclusive, however obviously it give an advantage to those participating in it otherwise they wouldn't bother.

I'm not against calcing in preparation, but I think calculating in the middle of a battle is disrespectful to your opponent and shows a lack of skill.

 

Build your team effectively, calculate outside of your battle time and get a better understanding of what sort of damage you can deal/can be dealt to you but try not to calculate things in the middle of a competitive battle.

First, I wouldn't call my last post an overreaction. If you'd like to admit that you made an overstatement, that's a different story. Need I remind you that you literally said this?

 

 

Calculating is essentially cheating

 

I use calcs in the middle of battles when the time calls for it. Does that make me a cheater? I'm not sure how a reasoned response to this accusation is an overreaction, but I'll brush past your awful choice of semantics for the time being

 

Yes, calculating can give you an advantage over someone that doesn't calc - wouldn't you also agree that calcing before a battle to prepare yourself also gives you an advantage? So why is it ok to calc before a battle but not during a battle - because the calc would be more effective? I don't understand this logic, and it sounds to me like your concerns lie with the amount of time battles take and not calcs themselves.

 

I just don't know what youre basing the statement that calcing "is disrespectful and shows a lack of skill" on. Disrespectful to who? I've literally never seen a dialogue here on the forums about the "cheating calcers." Have you ever seen someone post on an event thread "I would have won if it wasn't for my opponent calcing?" It's an accepted part of competitive play.

 

How does this all work into this particular suggestion? Because asking for a sound notification when the timer hits x seconds is a reasonable request. The timer is already there to put restraints on calcing/other things battlers do that waste time (I can assure you the vast majority of time used during a battle is spent weighing options of what to do next, not calcing). Notifying players when the timer is almost low isn't going to suddenly make calcing a problem

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First, I wouldn't call my last post an overreaction. If you'd like to admit that you made an overstatement, that's a different story. Need I remind you that you literally said this?

 

I use calcs in the middle of battles when the time calls for it. Does that make me a cheater? I'm not sure how a reasoned response to this accusation is an overreaction, but I'll brush past your awful choice of semantics for the time being

 

Yes, calculating can give you an advantage over someone that doesn't calc - wouldn't you also agree that calcing before a battle to prepare yourself also gives you an advantage? So why is it ok to calc before a battle but not during a battle - because the calc would be more effective? I don't understand this logic, and it sounds to me like your concerns lie with the amount of time battles take and not calcs themselves.

 

I just don't know what youre basing the statement that calcing "is disrespectful and shows a lack of skill" on. Disrespectful to who? I've literally never seen a dialogue here on the forums about the "cheating calcers." Have you ever seen someone post on an event thread "I would have won if it wasn't for my opponent calcing?" It's an accepted part of competitive play.

 

How does this all work into this particular suggestion? Because asking for a sound notification when the timer hits x seconds is a reasonable request. The timer is already there to put restraints on calcing/other things battlers do that waste time (I can assure you the vast majority of time used during a battle is spent weighing options of what to do next, not calcing). Notifying players when the timer is almost low isn't going to suddenly make calcing a problem

also nobody has the time to calc  EVERY specific scenario in a battle. each battle runs differently and you won't know off the bat, "oh I remember when I calced x", you just don't have the time for that before the battle. Most calcs are situational anyways, because of damage rolls.

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also nobody has the time to calc  EVERY specific scenario in a battle. each battle runs differently and you won't know off the bat, "oh I remember when I calced x", you just don't have the time for that before the battle. Most calcs are situational anyways, because of damage rolls.

Agreed. On top of this, it's not necessary to calc the vast majority of things in a battle. You don't need to calc a twave from blissey, or an aero rock slide on a 15% health blissey (it'll miss, don't worry). I think DS may have a warped view of what's eating up the timer in competitive battles

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Calculating is essentially cheating,

no. god no. pokemon is a strategy game. like all strategy games you can predict the outcome of events fairly accurately. the strategy part is predicting more moves ahead then the other guy, and accuracy. yes their is rng which is at odds with the concept of strategy games, but it doesnt matter. 

~insert chess analogy~

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Personally, I'd be happy if they just moved the timers to the bottom of the battle screen. The hotkey bar gets in the way. I'd move the bar somewhere else, but then it's in the way of all the more common things like friends/teammates coming online/going offline and such.

As for the notifications, I don't see a problem with having a sound. Calculating is about as unsportsmanlike as predicting your opponent and can be considered very similar. For example, predictions are an important part of the game. Knowing how much damage you can potentially do in a given scenario is equally important. The sets and builds that a person uses are as varied as the teams people choose. The main difference is your opponent's mentality. If they chose a different build than you expected, it's comparable to choosing an unusual team. Also like predictions, you can either trust your own judgement or play it safe. In the case of predicting an opponent, "playing it safe" refers to swapping to another Pokemon or using a move you know will not have any huge payout nor any major detriment. In the case of calculating damage, "playing it safe" refers to using an online calculator.

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