Change the priority of Follow Me

[PandaJJ]

After some experimenting, I have realized that Follow Me currently has a priorty of +3 in this game, unlike generation 6 where it has priority +2. This makes Follow Me even more powerful than it already is and rules out two of the common ways to deal with it. Fake Out has a priority +3, and should always go before Follow Me, allowing you to disrupt the strategies associated with it. As of now, this is only possible if you use a pokemon that is faster than the Follow Me user. Extremespeed has priority +2, and should be able to bypass Follow Me when used by a faster pokemon. As of now, Extremespeed is always redirected by Follow Me, which makes bypassing Follwo Me impossible.

 

I ask you to change the priority of Follow Me to +2, since this is how it is in generation 6 (for the sake of consistency,) and since it allows for more strategical play in Doubles.

Edited January 14, 2016 by PandaJJ

[fredrichnietze]

if 2 pokemon have +2 priority moves then the faster goes first (ie dragonite unless it's a jumpluff). and fake out does go first for me. im confused.

[Darkshade]

PokeMMO uses Generation V priority.

If we change the priority of this move in particular to Generation VI, all the rest will have to follow for consistency sake.

[OrangeManiac]

PokeMMO uses Generation V priority.

If we change the priority of this move in particular to Generation VI, all the rest will have to follow for consistency sake.

 

Is there any other differences between 5 and 6 than that?

[Rache]

Is there any other differences between 5 and 6 than that?

 

Gen 5:

[spoiler]

+8     Quick Claw
+7     Pursuit*
+6     Switching out, using items, escaping, charging of Focus Punch
+5     Helping Hand
+4     Detect, Magic Coat, Protect, Snatch
+3     Endure, Fake Out, Follow Me
+2     ExtremeSpeed
+1     Bide, Mach Punch, Quick Attack
0     All other moves
-1     Vital Throw
-2     None
-3     Focus Punch
-4     Revenge
-5     Counter, Mirror Coat
-6     Roar, Whirlwind
-7     fleeing

-8     None
[/spoiler]

 

Gen 6:

[spoiler]

+8     Quick Claw
+7     Pursuit*
+6     Switching out, using items, escaping, charging of Focus Punch
+5     Helping Hand
+4     Detect, Magic Coat, Protect, Snatch
+3     Endure, Fake Out
+2     Extreme Speed, Follow Me
+1     Bide, Mach Punch, Quick Attack
0     All other moves
-1     Vital Throw
-2     None
-3     Focus Punch
-4     Revenge
-5     Counter, Mirror Coat
-6     Roar, Whirlwind
-7     None
-8     None

[/spoiler]

 

Complete list can be found here.

[linwe]

PokeMMO uses Generation V priority.

If we change the priority of this move in particular to Generation VI, all the rest will have to follow for consistency sake.

but isn't the only thing that changes from gen 5 to 6 priority is follow me? 

Edited January 14, 2016 by linwe

[XelaKebert]

but isn't the only thing that changes from gen 5 to 6 priority is follow me? 

 

 

Gen 5:

[spoiler]

+8     Quick Claw
+7     Pursuit*
+6     Switching out, using items, escaping, charging of Focus Punch
+5     Helping Hand
+4     Detect, Magic Coat, Protect, Snatch
+3     Endure, Fake Out, Follow Me
+2     ExtremeSpeed
+1     Bide, Mach Punch, Quick Attack
0     All other moves
-1     Vital Throw
-2     None
-3     Focus Punch
-4     Revenge
-5     Counter, Mirror Coat
-6     Roar, Whirlwind
-7     fleeing

-8     None
[/spoiler]

 

Gen 6:

[spoiler]

+8     Quick Claw
+7     Pursuit*
+6     Switching out, using items, escaping, charging of Focus Punch
+5     Helping Hand
+4     Detect, Magic Coat, Protect, Snatch
+3     Endure, Fake Out
+2     Extreme Speed, Follow Me
+1     Bide, Mach Punch, Quick Attack
0     All other moves
-1     Vital Throw
-2     None
-3     Focus Punch
-4     Revenge
-5     Counter, Mirror Coat
-6     Roar, Whirlwind
-7     None
-8     None

[/spoiler]

 

Complete list can be found here.

 

Follow the link above for a full list of moves that changed priority between gen 5 and 6.

[PandaJJ]

if 2 pokemon have +2 priority moves then the faster goes first (ie dragonite unless it's a jumpluff). and fake out does go first for me. im confused.

Did you try using a slower Fake Out? And did you try using a faster Extremespeed? In both cases it's redirected, which is due to the fact that we use gen 5 mechanics.

 

Based on the lists you posted, you should be aware that Follow Me is the only move in our game that had its priority changed from gen 5 to gen 6. All other changes were made to moves that have not yet been implemented, and probably never will be (Rage Powder, Magic Room and Wonder Room.) So by changing the priority of Follow Me, you are changing the entire priority mechanics to become gen 6. I can't really see the problem here. I was under the impression that gen 6 was the template of most new mechanics in this game, after all.

[BigShotJoe]

Did you try using a slower Fake Out? And did you try using a faster Extremespeed? In both cases it's redirected, which is due to the fact that we use gen 5 mechanics.

 

Based on the lists you posted, you should be aware that Follow Me is the only move in our game that had its priority changed from gen 5 to gen 6. All other changes were made to moves that have not yet been implemented, and probably never will be (Rage Powder, Magic Room and Wonder Room.) So by changing the priority of Follow Me, you are changing the entire priority mechanics to become gen 6. I can't really see the problem here. I was under the impression that gen 6 was the template of most new mechanics in this game, after all.

Unfortunately, gen 6 is not the template we use. If it were, Knock Off wouldn't suck, Wish would heal a number of points rather than a percentage, and Ghost/Dark attacks would do neutral damage to Steel. 

[PandaJJ]

Unfortunately, gen 6 is not the template we use. If it were, Knock Off wouldn't suck, Wish would heal a number of points rather than a percentage, and Ghost/Dark attacks would do neutral damage to Steel. 

 

I'm pretty sure I said template for new mechanics in this game. If you remember, this game was initially intended to only obey 3rd gen mechanics, but it was later decided to update some mechanics to obey newer generations. Wish and Knock Off were both implemented before this was decided, so they have simply not been updated (and might not be.) Knock Off in particular does not even make sense to change, since this game doesn't have mega stones. There are certainly 6th gen mechanics in this game, such as ghosts being able to swap out against shadow tag users (this was never possible prior to gen 6.)

[Spaintakula]

There are certainly 6th gen mechanics in this game, such as ghosts being able to swap out against shadow tag users (this was never possible prior to gen 6.)

half the ghosts in gen3 had levitate anyway

[PandaJJ]

half the ghosts in gen3 had levitate anyway

Levitate only allows you to escape from arena trap, not shadow tag. Shadow tag was initially inescapable, but can now be avoided by either being a ghost, or having shadow tag yourself. Note that none of these help you escape from arena trap - the two abilities are quite different.

[BigShotJoe]

I'm pretty sure I said template for new mechanics in this game. If you remember, this game was initially intended to only obey 3rd gen mechanics, but it was later decided to update some mechanics to obey newer generations. Wish and Knock Off were both implemented before this was decided, so they have simply not been updated (and might not be.) Knock Off in particular does not even make sense to change, since this game doesn't have mega stones. There are certainly 6th gen mechanics in this game, such as ghosts being able to swap out against shadow tag users (this was never possible prior to gen 6.)

Out of curiosity, how are Mega Stones and Knock Off's gen 6 mechanics related? Please explain as I just never thought about it.

[OldKeith]

There is no reason to have gen 5 mechanics for priority. This game is already messy enough so that a new player will find it impossible to look up all battle mechanics. No wiki, no dex/move explanation or priority indicator. I understand that some moves like outrage, high jump kick and knock off have been kept nerfed for balancing sake. But how exactly do you expect players to know which generation they should abide to, unless you give a shitload of extra info in-game.

[Darkshade]

There is no reason to have gen 5 mechanics for priority. This game is already messy enough so that a new player will find it impossible to look up all battle mechanics. No wiki, no dex/move explanation or priority indicator. I understand that some moves like outrage, high jump kick and knock off have been kept nerfed for balancing sake. But how exactly do you expect players to know which generation they should abide to, unless you give a shitload of extra info in-game.

 

Well as far the details for each move is concerned it literally tells you inside the summary (minus a few pieces of incorrect dialogue that is on the to-do list).

Eventually we will probably have a section in the 'dex for move information.

 

The reason that we have Gen V priority is because it was objectively the best competitively at the time of implementation (With Generation VI priority changes not yet available) - with various changes to how end of turn priority influenced whether or not it went first in certain situations after Generation III; Thus priority in general was changed to match.

 

You can find further information here:

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/45133-changelog-19082014/

I'd suggest Googling the Generation III end of turn priority order to see the differences - they're pretty vast, with Wish being one of the more prominent changes (Generation IV+ is the one most people are familiar with).

 

So actually, there is a pretty good reason.

 

 

I have no objections to updating priority to Generation VI, but I'd rather a discussion be had beforehand to make sure there are not any potential kinks.

 

Not to go too off topic but I intend to go over the current generation of moves that we use (Munya has kindly put together a list which I will run by our tier council) and hopefully we can update things to be a little more consistent in general.

[PandaJJ]

I have no objections to updating priority to Generation VI, but I'd rather a discussion be had beforehand to make sure there are not any potential kinks.

 

If you are talking about a discussion with players, that might be difficult. Seeing as Follow Me is exclusively used in doubles, not many people care about it. I hope that as long as there are no objections in this thread, you will take that as support from the community, since there most likely won't be many voiced opinions in either direction. I guess that doesn't really support my case, but hopefully you will know that this matters a lot the the players who care.

[Rendiz]

I can't really see any negative connotations to this change. It just makes Clefable and Blastoise less obnoxious to deal with. And gives us more ways to deal with the stupid cosmic power set going around without having to bring taunt pokes. Although that being said if it doesn't change to gen6 priority then let the Blastoise speed creep commence.