Batman Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 What if someone renames "Shiny value" to "Shiny Wish list with price" xD Link to comment
DubPhizix Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 +1 These value lists started prob with the right intend, giving opinions on how much you would buy/sell things for, but like VD ended up, all that these lists do is just upvalue your own stuff, devalue stuff you are looking for/other people own, or trying to reach for wishlist stuff. Problem is lot of people dont see these lists as a 'personal' opinion of values, and it's affecting in game as well. I have offered on shinies in game, where i just got an answer with a link of a thread with a value list, of whoever valued the shiny he/she was selling the highest, telling me that was the 'real' value. Like thread OP said, these lists are just people trying to hold on to old VD, and they dont realize lots of people take these lists for a 'real value'. Trading is all about opinion to start with, but listing out your own personal opinions on shinies will just force people to take over opinions from someone else. Ronax 1 Link to comment
axx Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) Indeed, you can rule "Only give values on stuff you own and stuff you are looking for." Again. Who says that I'm not looking for every shiny pokémon available and state the price that I'm willing to pay in a big long-ass list? Who can prove that I'm not selling the stuff that I say I'm selling? There is really no limit to the amount of stuff that I can post for sale or to the number of things that I am looking for. Rigamorty gave us an example of why these lists are not of pokémon that the player is willing to buy. Note however that each player is free to refuse whatever deal he wants independently if it is favorable or not. So what is the solution? Staff determines who sells what? Staff determines who values what? Well, that sounds like extra work, and we all know who is not willing to do it. Edited January 15, 2016 by axx Draekyn 1 Link to comment
JonazDK Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 i think valuelists in tradethreads is fine, if you are tradeing with the person who owns the thread, it is just good to know how he value things, then you can agree and do the trade or disagree and not trade with them.... stop being butthurt about people value things diffrent than, you and let them value as they want... Link to comment
Darkshade Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Indeed, you can rule "Only give values on stuff you own and stuff you are looking for." Again. Who says that I'm not looking for every shiny pokémon available and state the price that I'm willing to pay in a big long-ass list? Who can prove that I'm not selling the stuff that I say I'm selling? There is really no limit to the amount of stuff that I can post for sale or to the number of things that I am looking for. Rigamorty gave us an example of why these lists are not of pokémon that the player is willing to buy. Note however that each player is free to refuse whatever deal he wants independently if it is favorable or not. So what is the solution? Staff determines who sells what? Staff determines who values what? Well, that sounds like extra work, and we all know who is not willing to do it. The ideal solution would be for players to stop caring about peoples individual lists. If there was a community effort to stop accepting them as fact you'd see a decline in them being at all relevant. axx, JonazDK, DrCraig and 1 other 4 Link to comment
JayMetaGod Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Real shit though, it was like 4AM last night and there was a shiny in trade chat, think it was an Altaria or something. As someone who does not shiny trade, how am I to come up with a decent offer for this kid with out low balling the shit out of him. Asking Shiny trader friends is not a reliable option at 4AM. Thankfully, I was able to refer to these lists though (Specifically Josh & Alpha's) I don't see exactly why Value discussion was removed if it was primarily used to value shinies, which is what the GTL does not do. People do not trade these kinds of shines on the GTL bc of the tax and more importantly the fact that people don't trade in pure yen for larger shinies. JonazDK, Hassy and Mitch730 3 Link to comment
XelaKebert Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 The GTL can be used as a baseline. Why even use the forums for a "price check" in the first place? Just because some shinies are not on the GTL due to taxing, that doesn't mean that there aren't some that can give you a general idea. The issue with Value Discussion and Value Lists seems to be that those who use those methods to value shinies used them to artificially influence the market, which is a problem because the market should be determined by a broader group than just a small few individuals. That's just what I see so far and this has no bearing on my personal view of value lists. DrCraig 1 Link to comment
SneaKyKhaLidA Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) Because gtl is way fucking off like 2m for pidgeots and 1m for tentacruel lmao. And real fact is people don't know values so lots of people use these threads and think its fact ,for me I doesn't bother but it does for a lot of people. Edited January 15, 2016 by SneaKyKhaLidA Hassy 1 Link to comment
JayMetaGod Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 The GTL can be used as a baseline. Why even use the forums for a "price check" in the first place? Just because some shinies are not on the GTL due to taxing, that doesn't mean that there aren't some that can give you a general idea. The issue with Value Discussion and Value Lists seems to be that those who use those methods to value shinies used them to artificially influence the market, which is a problem because the market should be determined by a broader group than just a small few individuals. That's just what I see so far and this has no bearing on my personal view of value lists. Was gonna but then Because gtl is way fucking off like 2m for pidgeots and 1m for tentacruel lmao. And real fact is people don't know values so lots of people use these threads and think its fact ,for me I doesn't bother but it does for a lot of people. The GTL is FAR from a base line for shinies Link to comment
axx Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Because gtl is way fucking off This, we need auction house with historical records of sales. JonazDK 1 Link to comment
Ronax Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 This, we need auction house with historical records of sales. This would almost be like value discussion. The whole point of getting rid of VD was to eliminate standstill prices. This would also help the GTL to allow supply and demand, and the economy itself, to determine prices. If someone places a Pokemon up at a price and it doesn't sell, then it shows that they might want to lower the price. We shouldn't let past sales or prices skew future prices. Was gonna but then The GTL is FAR from a base line for shinies Shinies should not have baseline prices. We cannot change the past, but imagine if PokeMMO would have had the GTL right away from the start and yen was used as a primary currency (instead of lucky eggs). I can give an educated guess that things would be much different and that certain shinies would not have such astronomical prices compared to others. Of course, shinies would still have variant prices, but they would be more sensible. The Set Values/Value Discussion mindset is unhealthy for the economy. It's unfortunate that players have the want for baseline prices stuck in their head in my opinion. Because gtl is way fucking off like 2m for pidgeots and 1m for tentacruel lmao. And real fact is people don't know values so lots of people use these threads and think its fact ,for me I doesn't bother but it does for a lot of people. Values are subjective. To say the prices are "wrong" or that players "don't know values" is saying that they are required to value a Pokemon at a certain price or range. Munya, Hassy, DrCraig and 4 others 7 Link to comment
MirandaKun Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 This, we need auction house with historical records of sales. Yeah so the next newbie to get shiny skarmory sees the past sale of 300k and sells for 400k? nahhh. I support these lists because they're a way of experienced traders show everyone how much you can sell/buy your desired shiny. Without these lists i'm sure that many rare shinys will pop on GTL for like 20-50% of their real value. Ask ingame? Yeah tell that to a lonely casual player Hassy and Shiigo 2 Link to comment
Gunthug Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Without these lists i'm sure that many rare shinys will pop on GTL for like 20-50% of their real value. This already happens. Plus, the GTL isn't a good place for high value commodity trading, and that's not even necessarily because of the tax Link to comment
MirandaKun Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 This already happens. Plus, the GTL isn't a good place for high value commodity trading, and that's not even necessarily because of the tax Happens but it will be worse Link to comment
Rigamorty Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 People are under the impression you need to go around asking for values or finding a value prior to trying to sell. If you want to see what offers you get, you try to sell it for more than 4 seconds. you don't list it on gtl. start an auction on the forums. Don't dive head first into the first offer you get. Real shit though, it was like 4AM last night and there was a shiny in trade chat, think it was an Altaria or something. As someone who does not shiny trade, how am I to come up with a decent offer for this kid with out low balling the shit out of him. Asking Shiny trader friends is not a reliable option at 4AM. Thankfully, I was able to refer to these lists though (Specifically Josh & Alpha's) I don't see exactly why Value discussion was removed if it was primarily used to value shinies, which is what the GTL does not do. People do not trade these kinds of shines on the GTL bc of the tax and more importantly the fact that people don't trade in pure yen for larger shinies. in this case, if you're concerned with lowballing the seller, talk to the seller himself. ask what kinds of offers he's looking at, what prices he's willing to sell for. If you're personally willing to pay that much you can, if not you can talk it out or move on you obviously don't want the thing. The idea that trades need to be made based on a preconceived notion of what the pokemon's value is is the exact problem with trading. This whole thread is "Without lists how will i know values?!?!?!" the values are imaginary, made up, and hopefully soon archaic. These specific number values are the exact problem, the concern isn't how to find them, it's the fact they exist. Link to comment
Mellisa Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I pay scheme prices wayy too often Link to comment
Shiigo Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) I wanted to share my opinion about value lists. For me it would be irrelevant if you decide to remove them because I did not designed my list for personal gain. I help teammates and too many people in the game. They can feel free to ask the reasons why I value one shiny with a certain price in game I can explain each value. I know that the sale of cheap shinies will continue with or without list of values in the game. Especially ultra rare shinies. But in particular I think value lists are useful. I remember specifically Hassy past sales when sold Bulbasaur, Skarmory, Houndoom, Vulpix. Quickly and for reasonable prices. I understand the discomfort of those who want to change their shinies. But I think the use of indicative values help many people to get an approximate value of their shinies. If shinies are getting cheaper is because most players can not afford big amount of money and new shinies appeared. One solution in future would be GTL tell us lastest shinies sales here. But of course this would not work with ultra rare shinies and this is where the lists of values are useful. It is true that most experienced players know the price of their own shinies. I do not think it's possible to work in a guide about values in Guide Tavern. Its very complex because many factors involved here and the prices may change for some and not for other people. On the other hand if values are not desired on shinies in the game would be best to eliminate value lists forever. But I'm sure would be more complicated the sale or exchange of ultra rare shinies. Edited January 17, 2016 by Shiigo Link to comment
Jindu Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Shinies should not have baseline prices. We cannot change the past, but imagine if PokeMMO would have had the GTL right away from the start and yen was used as a primary currency (instead of lucky eggs). I can give an educated guess that things would be much different and that certain shinies would not have such astronomical prices compared to others. Of course, shinies would still have variant prices, but they would be more sensible. The Set Values/Value Discussion mindset is unhealthy for the economy. It's unfortunate that players have baseline prices in their head in my opinion. Values are subjective. To say the prices are "wrong" or that players "don't know values" is saying that they are required to value a Pokemon at a certain price or range. Your educated guess is far from right. The top tier shinies would still be worth the same as they are now, and if not that then very close to it. The amount of shinies / total IG wealth some players have is crazy. They would still have all the stuff they do now, and the top tier shinies would still be just as rare as they are now. Nobody who knows even a little bit about shiny values and rarity would never sell their top shiny for a cheap price, no matter what kind of system PokeMMO uses. It's all about supply and demand. The demand of good shinies would still be high, and the supply still be low. That would apply to every shiny worth more than a few million Yen. That will never change, no matter what kind of system is in this game. I agree that shiny prices are subjective and that lists based on personal opinions should not exist. But that's not going to change unless you force it onto the players. Just gives you a whole more stuff to argue about. SneaKyKhaLidA, JayMetaGod, Aerun and 2 others 5 Link to comment
Ronax Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Your educated guess is far from right. The top tier shinies would still be worth the same as they are now, and if not that then very close to it. The amount of shinies / total IG wealth some players have is crazy. They would still have all the stuff they do now, and the top tier shinies would still be just as rare as they are now. Nobody who knows even a little bit about shiny values and rarity would never sell their top shiny for a cheap price, no matter what kind of system PokeMMO uses. It's all about supply and demand. The demand of good shinies would still be high, and the supply still be low. That would apply to every shiny worth more than a few million Yen. That will never change, no matter what kind of system is in this game. I agree that shiny prices are subjective and that lists based on personal opinions should not exist. But that's not going to change unless you force it onto the players. Just gives you a whole more stuff to argue about. I'm sorry, I don't want to get to off topic, but I agree that the "top tier" shinies will always be the "highest valued," but what I cannot agree with how these values are scaled. You are using terms that are subjective. Again, I don't want to get off subject so I'll leave it at that. Feel free to PM so I can explain in greater detail. Link to comment
Rigamorty Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 If anyone else would like to give input on this please do so soon as I will be looking into it this weekend. You are welcome to PM me if you dont want to share your opinion publicly. what ever happened to this? Link to comment
Draekyn Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 what ever happened to this? Link to comment
chtap Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 what ever happened to this? Link to comment
Rigamorty Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 what ever happened to this? i don't think we'll be getting a response from Noad now considering her new found freedom Link to comment
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