PC in Secret Base

[Robofiend]

Pretty simple: it'd be nice to be able to hang out in someone's secret base and get pokes in and out of PC.

 

Imo should be free but whatever devs just make us grind 100k BP it's fine

[dustybunny]

I play the game, yes. I'm well aware that Secret Power is a TM, but if taught to your HM slave, you can keep Secret Power on that Pokemon at all times and simply switch the 3 HMs on it when you need them. Locking the PC behind BP doesn't magically fix the problems with the suggestion. Once they have it, they can and will still take advantage of it to heal.
 
Something I should make clear is that the idea of a base PC isn't an inherently bad one and I'm not against it in its entirety, but if it is implemented, it has to be done in a way that doesn't allow the user to heal/swap their party members while they're out hunting. Any changes to the user's party would have to be temporary, allowing them to switch Pokemon for duels but not to take new Pokemon out of the base or have the ones they brought in with them healed. If you don't like the solution above, feel free to suggest an alternative, but it has to fit the aforementioned criteria.
 
Designing a solution to a problem (difficult to battle inside a base) shouldn't involve causing more problems. An ideal solution fixes the current issue with minimal or no negative side effects. Arguing that free healing is a non-issue doesn't make it a non-issue, it's simply ignoring what "fixing" the initial problem would cause.
[spoiler]Magikarp, Wobbuffet, etc are unable to learn Secret Power, so your statement about every Pokemon getting it is false. The majority of Pokemon do learn it though.[/spoiler]

On a crapple pad so can't bold.
1.part 1-what's bad about people actually using a mechanic of the game that is otherwise useless?
2. Part 2-Easy fix-make secret bases only available to people after they've beat Kano and hoenn if your concern is "newer" players
3.part 3 see 2nd option it's a solution

Also that spoiler pisses me off. It's unnecessary towards this discussion becsuse nobody has said "awwww man wobbo and magikarp can't learn secret power" so pretty much every Pokemon can learn it that you'll be using. As far as I can tell that spoilers only there to try and win side arguments in the bigger argument that you can't defend.

[linwe]

unrelated intro

[spoiler]this whole topic will probably get deleted out of defeated rage, and i dont like getting into these things because both the staff and myself have done some questionable things to the extent that we dont get along very well with each other[/spoiler]

 

whats so wrong with this idea that it takes players slinging insults to nab your attention to see the bold taste of cinnamon toast crunch point

 

the idea is there in your face, everyone is brainstorming

 

and you guys are simply ignoring it

 

now instead of trying your best to find the teeniest tiniest negative thing about anyone's ideas (that aren't yours), let's try and find the positives that go around this, and seeing that the "pros" and "cons" were listed by breathcore a couple of posts ago, i dont think i need to say anything further

 

~xfatex

[XkWreckem]

All of this shit over putting a god damn PC in your secret base? The fuck would that even accomplish? Not sure how that would "breath life" back into secret bases.......Actually sounds like a pretty pointless thing to do.....Or maybe I am misunderstanding because I don't want to have to swim through all the posts of bullshit to find an intelligent post that is informational

Edited January 1, 2016 by XkWreckem

[Kouteshi]

All of this shit over putting a god damn PC in your secret base? The fuck would that even accomplish? Not sure how that would "breath life" back into secret bases.......Actually sounds like a pretty pointless thing to do.....Or maybe I am misunderstanding because I don't want to have to swim through all the posts of bullshit to find an intelligent post that is informational

Dude even in Pokemon Insurgence it has a PC in a secret base so i don't know what your saying.I find it useful and i don't see how are people pissed of about it.

Cmon PokeMMO implement a god damn good suggestion into the game.

[Otulp]

I play the game, yes. I'm well aware that Secret Power is a TM, but if taught to your HM slave, you can keep Secret Power on that Pokemon at all times and simply switch the 3 HMs on it when you need them. Locking the PC behind BP doesn't magically fix the problems with the suggestion. Once they have it, they can and will still take advantage of it to heal.

again... if youre worried about that make it teleport you to last  pokecenter you healed at.

 

edit: teleport once you exit secret base.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Otulp

[Kornelio]

Just remove heal to all PCs and problem solved; in secret bases we have tournament mode battles if we are going to duel in it, and in pokecenters...(plz i dont have to explain it), we just....dont need PCs to heal our pokes (at least i do not). By the way it would be cool to save burned guts pokemons for easier NPCs run(more money sink on leppa berrys).

I hope i could explain my point :D

[XelaKebert]

HM Fly can be acquired halfway through the game, thus making the "stick to towns" argument more rubbish than it already was. Not everyone knows about secret bases and not everyone wants to go around with a shitty TM that barely damages the enemy. And if you DO use it, the last thing most people would think about is exploiting it to heal your own Pokemons. If we are going to continue with the pointless arguments against this idea (which none have been valid so far) you might as well remove every other PC that is not inside a Pokecenter, like the Weather Institute one.

The timing of getting HM Fly is completely irrelevant to the topic entirely because it still makes you stick to towns. You can't fly back to the middle of a route and Rachel brought up a very valid point that teaching it to an HM slave is hardly a consequence. Every player has an HM slave on them when grinding, so making 1 of the moves Secret Power is inconsequential to them so they are then left with at least 20 other useful moves while grinding. Certain PCs outside of the Pokemon Centers exist by design, even in the original games, as those allow you to change your teams out while pushing through Silph Co or the Weather Institute. Additionally, you can't fly to those so they are not even a concern.

[Laz]

It takes 30sec to go switch pokes in pc and come back, I'm sure we all can bare with it.
Forget it Xela.

[Kizhaz]

I still dont see it as a big issue, but honestly at this point if changing parties upon exit or being teleported to the last used pc upon exit is what it takes to have this implemented, then just do it. I would like the ability to battle in bases sooner rather than later

[Bishav]

Someone listed eving pokemon getting easier/cheaper as a con. Wasn't that a goal to achieve to begin with? EV training has ridiculously grindy/shitty mechanics anyway. Pretty sure you guys lowered the vitamin prices/made it available at bf just to make up for the lack of alternate eving methods.
As for catching pokemon getting easier, it is still a shit ton of grind to breed pokemon.Thanks to the gtl, we can now only grind for money and get our breeders- but guess what? the breeders also need to be caught by someone. If that someone gets discouraged to the extent of not catching the pokemon(because of grindy mechanics) then we will have the prices rising again which in turn will cause the breeding to be grindy again.

About repels losing function, I'm sure there are plenty of places repels would still be needed- farming pokemon above a certain level to increase their encounter rate.
Creating a base can be made to cost money that players would be willing to spend. Getting the PC would need bps which players would be happy to grind.
Even after this, a team can coordinate and make all their secret bases at strategic locations to cover the grindy locations.
This doesn't seem much of an issue as you need to make the game less frustrating (grindy). Economy, surely an important factor, comes as a secondary factor.

This was entirely directed at the cons. The pros are listed all over the thread.

[Vaeldras]

Someone listed eving pokemon getting easier/cheaper as a con. Wasn't that a goal to achieve to begin with? EV training has ridiculously grindy/shitty mechanics anyway. Pretty sure you guys lowered the vitamin prices/made it available at bf just to make up for the lack of alternate eving methods.
As for catching pokemon getting easier, it is still a shit ton of grind to breed pokemon.Thanks to the gtl, we can now only grind for money and get our breeders- but guess what? the breeders also need to be caught by someone. If that someone gets discouraged to the extent of not catching the pokemon(because of grindy mechanics) then we will have the prices rising again which in turn will cause the breeding to be grindy again.

About repels losing function, I'm sure there are plenty of places repels would still be needed- farming pokemon above a certain level to increase their encounter rate.
Creating a base can be made to cost money that players would be willing to spend. Getting the PC would need bps which players would be happy to grind.
Even after this, a team can coordinate and make all their secret bases at strategic locations to cover the grindy locations.
This doesn't seem much of an issue as you need to make the game less frustrating (grindy). Economy, surely an important factor, comes as a secondary factor.

This was entirely directed at the cons. The pros are listed all over the thread.

 

Facts is it wouldn't make eving any easier at all.

you save about 1 minute in an entire hp training session, but that's it.

[Robofiend]

A refinement of the idea would be to only take away the player's party if they try to access the PC storage system rather than upon entry to the base. Some feedback on the idea or alternative solutions would be appreciated. Viable alternatives need to achieve the same thing however - preventing the player from healing or swapping their party members in the middle of a route.

 

That adjustment is just super ad hoc and hard to implement. I'm not opposed to it per se, but it's a lot of work to fix the fucking non-issue of players suddenly not using repels or being able to farm in relatively sub-optimal hoenn locations. The reason I say "fucking non-issue" instead of legitimate complaint is because of the following:

 

1. Players don't use repels to get back to the PC: they Fly. They might use repels to get back once they've flown, but I've pointed out again and again that for the hours (assuming you have a full party of Paydayers or PP maxed Smeargles) you can spend farming on some of these obscure routes, the seconds of time you spend get back to the spot post PC is nominal. Also, as many other players have indicated throughout this thread, repels are kinda a waste of money: you're better off catching the pokemon and selling it on GTL for 5k than you are avoiding it entirely. The incentive is now there, and players are responding. Repels should be a footnote consideration in this argument.

 

2. Any loss of a money sink should be proportional to increases in others if my idea is implemented. If people suddenly stop spending money on repels and hyper potions, they will likely use that money elsewhere, for instance, buying 99x Ultra Balls to make farming super easy at their new secret base route. Even in the worst case, you still have bullet point 1. to refer to: few people use these weak storyline items after completing the storyline.

 

3. The actual location of where the Secret Base PC exists is beside the point. In an earlier post, I pointed out that there is no route with pokemon as rare and high level as Victory Road, making it the current optimal farming location. Any player who farms pokemon on one of those weird ass routes is costing themselves a huge amount of opportunity, as most other routes in Hoenn have common, low level mobs that aren't good for anything anyway. Adding a PC to the Secret Base would at best be a break-even strategy with farming Victory Road, which has the added advantage of literally being 3s of biking from a PC. Furthermore, farming shit in Hoenn really isn't competitive in terms of money/exp payout to the islands in Kanto.

 

4. If we're still going with the assumption that this feature will come after the Hoenn storyline, it won't allow players to alt spam or just coast through the game any easier than they can now.

 

TL;DR - I understand you're not *as* against this as you once were, but I do implore you to give these points some thought because as far as I can see, they both individually and collectively nullify the fear of players being able to abuse PC healing functionality. If you can explain how I might be missing the point, I'll hear you out, but as of yet it seems like you and most of the other mods who've posted on this thread aren't really thinking through the current state of affairs in the game when you talk about the possible "exploits" this feature might open up.

[Rache]

Balance issues aside as we all appear to be going around in circles, I should point out that turning secret bases into portable Pokemon Centers completely destroys the concept of them. As they currently are, they act as hidden rooms in interesting locations that the player can decorate. Add full PC functionality and suddenly they've become something else entirely. If a player is constantly moving them around for the convenience of having a PC with them when they need it, there is no longer any incentive to find a good spot and decorate them - they become little more than a PC for the majority of players.

 

Making it easier to duel inside secret bases is a reasonable request and something I have no problem with if it doesn't allow the player's current party to be altered once they leave (which has been my only issue since the start). Giving the player full PC functionality pretty much anywhere in Hoenn is another thing entirely and will not be happening. Ignoring the problems with it (or passing them off as "convenience") doesn't make them go away.

 

I should also point out that "hard to implement" is not a con and should never be used as an argument against something unless it's actually impossible.

[Gunthug]

Balance issues aside as we all appear to be going around in circles, I should point out that turning secret bases into portable Pokemon Centers completely destroys the concept of them. As they currently are, they act as hidden rooms in interesting locations that the player can decorate. Add full PC functionality and suddenly they've become something else entirely. If a player is constantly moving them around for the convenience of having a PC with them when they need it, there is no longer any incentive to find a good spot and decorate them - they become little more than a PC for the majority of players.

 

Making it easier to duel inside secret bases is a reasonable request and something I have no problem with if it doesn't allow the player's current party to be altered once they leave (which has been my only issue since the start). Giving the player full PC functionality pretty much anywhere in Hoenn is another thing entirely and will not be happening. Ignoring the problems with it (or passing them off as "convenience") doesn't make them go away.

 

I should also point out that "hard to implement" is not a con and should never be used as an argument against something unless it's actually impossible.

Second time I've seen you use this language: "ignoring the problems with it doesn't make them go away." Rache, we're not ignoring the problems - we're asserting, with ample evidence, that they don't exist. What you are doing is ignoring these arguments time and time again, as you simply insist that there's a problem there and that's that.

 

You claim adding PC functionality would destroy the concept of secret bases, yet that rests on the fallacy that secret bases are currently something that can be destroyed. Theyre basically useless right now. So much potential, and yet so little actual utility. You're also assuming that people will use their secret base as a portable PC (in 1 of our 2 regions, mind you) rather than as a nearly perfect battle center/tournament arena/team HQ/decoration hotspot. This is extremely short sighted, and I think it's because you're focusing so hard on what you perceive as this massive loophole.

 

However, this isn't a discussion anymore. In a discussion, both sides are open to changing their minds if presented with reasonable evidence. You are clearly incapable of acknowledging the evidence presented by many posters on this thread that you're blowing the utility of this 'portable pc' out of proportion. Therefore, it's pointless to continue

[dustybunny]

Add full PC functionality and suddenly they've become something else entirely.

Yeah they become something of importance rather then a failed money sink. If anything players would start to buy more stuff to trick out there bases for tournaments/HQ'S/ect

I urge you to see the brighter side of this and just go with the flow for once because everyone else wants it...

[Robofiend]

Balance issues aside as we all appear to be going around in circles, I should point out that turning secret bases into portable Pokemon Centers completely destroys the concept of them. As they currently are, they act as hidden rooms in interesting locations that the player can decorate. Add full PC functionality and suddenly they've become something else entirely. If a player is constantly moving them around for the convenience of having a PC with them when they need it, there is no longer any incentive to find a good spot and decorate them - they become little more than a PC for the majority of players.

 

Gunthug most of everything that needed to be said on this point: I just gave you a bunch of reasons why this doesn't *destroy* anything, it enhances gameplay in a way that isn't detrimental to the economy or other aspects of the game. Even if this did become a "portable PC" for most players, overhead costs (RP, BP or $) would deincentivize players from taking it all around Hoenn. Even if they did regularly sack money or time to move around, you still have essentially plugged your ears with regards to my points above, including the fact that this mechanic wouldn't "ruin" anything. You're couching your arguments in hyperbolic language ("destroys the concept of [Secret Bases]") and ad hominem by claiming that we're "going in circles" when I explicitly asked for a reiteration of your past statements. 

 

This should go without saying but appeals to "how the game was originally meant to be" are a straight up ridiculous. You're playing a Fire Red/Emerald hybrid Pokemon game with confirmed IV's, dungeons/quests, Tournament mode, Tradeable Money, altered NPC interactions, altered payouts, altered BP rewards, altered move mechanics, and a million other non-canon features and you're going to complain about this one? It's just not tenable to hold onto this, and it seems you are.

 

If you want to respond to my prior post in a way that actually addresses the content instead of digging in your heels, I'm all for it. If not, then you're purposely avoiding discussion, which is not why this thread or forum exists!.

 

Making it easier to duel inside secret bases is a reasonable request and something I have no problem with if it doesn't allow the player's current party to be altered once they leave (which has been my only issue since the start). Giving the player full PC functionality pretty much anywhere in Hoenn is another thing entirely and will not be happening. Ignoring the problems with it (or passing them off as "convenience") doesn't make them go away.

 

I considered all of the problems that you pointed out in my above post(s), now its time for you to be generous and do the same for me. I explained why almost all of your counterpoints to my suggestions do not hold up to scrutiny, and gave you an open door to show me how I'm wrong. Again, if you're not going to discuss this, you need to be using another website, because forums are made for discussions. 

 

I should also point out that "hard to implement" is not a con and should never be used as an argument against something unless it's actually impossible.

 

 I disagree. Generally, in software development & engineering (as well as many other sciences), the simplest solution is almost always preferable so long as nothing is lost or broken by implementing it. What I've been saying is that nothing would be lost by implementing a Secret Base PC, and I've given you a lot of reasoning as to why this is:

 

1. Upfront cost for PC discourages frequent moving. Loss of repel/potion money sink could be mitigated by making the PC cost money each time a secret base is relocated. These costs would promote using the Secret Base as it was originally intended: to be a stationary hideout where players can bring their friends, customize their personal space with random items, and allow for fun interactions with other players.

2. Giving players access to new areas to grind doesn't actually harm anything, as better grinding areas are already available without this feature. 

3. Loss of the repel money sink is of questionable importance as catching Pokemon is generally more profitable than repelling them. Easier farming of certain species may in fact make players more inclined to visit/use their secret base.

4. Only allowing PC after completion of the storyline prevents players from abusing the secret base's healing functionality.

 

Again, I'm giving you an open door to respond to anything I've said in a systematic and well-reasoned way.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Robofiend

[PlayerOne]

Balance issues aside as we all appear to be going around in circles, I should point out that turning secret bases into portable Pokemon Centers completely destroys the concept of them. As they currently are, they act as hidden rooms in interesting locations that the player can decorate. Add full PC functionality and suddenly they've become something else entirely. If a player is constantly moving them around for the convenience of having a PC with them when they need it, there is no longer any incentive to find a good spot and decorate them - they become little more than a PC for the majority of players.

 

Making it easier to duel inside secret bases is a reasonable request and something I have no problem with if it doesn't allow the player's current party to be altered once they leave (which has been my only issue since the start). Giving the player full PC functionality pretty much anywhere in Hoenn is another thing entirely and will not be happening. Ignoring the problems with it (or passing them off as "convenience") doesn't make them go away.

 

I should also point out that "hard to implement" is not a con and should never be used as an argument against something unless it's actually impossible.

Hello Rachel a question who win u or the people want the update for base get more cool?

 

Edit.1 founed other forum suggestion about new accesory for base so why no? so in its case i like the idea

Edited January 3, 2016 by PlayerOne

[Rache]

Text

Attaching a cost to moving your base doesn't resolve the issue either and comes with its own problems. It discourages moving your base if you find a better location than the one you already had, which affects storyliners as they discover new locations. More importantly though, it turns a large team/friend list into a huge advantage as you'll have free access to the base PCs of all of them while they're online. The price of moving your base would only really affect players with a small team/friend list, and as a result, people would likely start "selling" a spot on their friend lists for the usage of their base. Unless you're charged a few thousand yen per individual use of any PC inside any secret base, this is a very bad thing. Saying that not everybody will do this is not an argument as they have the option to do so if they choose. If you attach a cost per use of a base PC to discourage this however, the feature becomes essentially pointless and a lot less useful for tournaments.

A special (free) PC that allows normal functionality within the base while preventing the party the player brought in with them from being altered is a possibility and would allow teams/friends to battle privately (thus stopping bases from being close to useless in its own way), but a PC without limitations is not happening. A price tag for the PC itself is not an effective enough limitation while also increasing the value of being on someone's friend list, and charging players to move their bases will not work either due to, again, large friend lists.

Being able to set up a pseudo Pokemon Center pretty much wherever you want in Hoenn isn't going to ever happen. I'm not going to further argue this as I've said my piece already and would rather not continue to repeat myself. Forums may exist for the sake of discussion, but that doesn't mean that both sides have to end up actually agreeing on something in the end. This seems to be one of those cases.
 

[Vaeldras]

 huge advantage

 

No.

We told you why and you're still playing dumb.

But it's ok, i think pretty much noone cares wether your team stays the same or changes upon leaving the base, so how about making it your way?

Let's end this pointless debate and reach a good meeting point.

It would be nice though to be able to send and receive mails from your base.

There could be some issues with mailed pokemon, so we could have them automatically going to your pc (which is better than having them moved to your party anyway)

[DaftCoolio]

wynaut just change pc's so they dont heal you

[dustybunny]

Attaching a cost to moving your base doesn't resolve the issue either and comes with its own problems. It discourages moving your base if you find a better location than the one you already had, which affects storyliners as they discover new locations. More importantly though, it turns a large team/friend list into a huge advantage as you'll have free access to the base PCs of all of them while they're online. The price of moving your base would only really affect players with a small team/friend list, and as a result, people would likely start "selling" a spot on their friend lists for the usage of their base. Unless you're charged a few thousand yen per individual use of any PC inside any secret base, this is a very bad thing. Saying that not everybody will do this is not an argument as they have the option to do so if they choose. If you attach a cost per use of a base PC to discourage this however, the feature becomes essentially pointless and a lot less useful for tournaments.
 

I'm done with this, literally no one will sell a spot on there friends list for a secret base, besides the person you buy it from has to be on for you to take advantage of it.

 

I still see this is an opportunity to make a rather useless secret base become not as useless and even then it would become a money sink because people would trick out there bases, I know I would.

 

You're scraping the bottom so hard my ears are gonna bleed soon.

[Rache]

No.

We told you why and you're still playing dumb.

But it's ok, i think pretty much noone cares wether your team stays the same or changes upon leaving the base, so how about making it your way?

Let's end this pointless debate and reach a good meeting point.

It would be nice though to be able to send and receive mails from your base.

There could be some issues with mailed pokemon, so we could have them automatically going to your pc (which is better than having them moved to your party anyway)

I imagine that this would be perfectly fine and quite convenient. Sending Pokemon attachments should probably be restricted to actual PCs due to how easy it is for a player to trap themselves without certain HM moves, but it's not something that would happen often. The pros and cons of that would have to be weighed up, but the idea's quite good in and of itself.

[YettoDie]

I imagine that this would be perfectly fine and quite convenient. Sending Pokemon attachments should probably be restricted to actual PCs due to how easy it is for a player to trap themselves without certain HM moves, but it's not something that would happen often. The pros and cons of that would have to be weighed up, but the idea's quite good in and of itself.

For people smart enough to trap themselves, we have the beautiful command /unstuck, argument invalid.

[OrangeManiac]

So is now the definition of exploit as something that makes the game towards slightly more convenient direction but anything that makes the game more grindy is balancing?

 

E: All these counter-arguments about making the game easier base on the assumption that everything is perfect as a game as where it is right now with a canon version and that I think is a major fallacy by default. Making things harder of course can be justified by making this game a "better MMO environment".

Edited January 3, 2016 by OrangeManiac

[Vaeldras]

I imagine that this would be perfectly fine and quite convenient. Sending Pokemon attachments should probably be restricted to actual PCs due to how easy it is for a player to trap themselves without certain HM moves, but it's not something that would happen often. The pros and cons of that would have to be weighed up, but the idea's quite good in and of itself.

 

Wait, how would one trap himself with a mailed pokemon?

I mean, if anything you won't be able to take it with a full team, hence why i suggested for them to be automatically moved to your box.

Having a complete mail system in bases would definitely help make them more relevant.

I believe bases have a lot of potential and if you guys decide to invest on them they could very well become the core of some interesting end game activies.