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PC in Secret Base


Robofiend

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The staff of this game is filled with armchair economists, it's hilarious

watch, i'll do it too: By putting PCs in secret bases, you'd be breathing life into what is currently a useless mechanic, and more people would in turn buy secret base decorations since they'd be relevant again. Boom, money sink. Source: I went to 40% of my microeconomics class in college, so I'm obviously qualified to make sweeping economic hypotheticals


By reducing outflow of currency even a small bit at first you start creating more currency than is flowing out. This creates a bubble that inevitably gets too large to sustain and bursts. You don't breath life into a game by increasing inflation rates. Inflation rates are exponential so even starting out at a small point will over time grow to a much larger point. Remember the Lucky Egg crash? The cause of that was that, due to a bug, there were more Lucky Eggs in circulation than the market could handle. This drove prices for goods up to unreasonable levels. No one knew how long that bug existed, but the effects of it were devastating to the market as a whole.
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By reducing outflow of currency even a small bit at first you start creating more currency than is flowing out. This creates a bubble that inevitably gets too large to sustain and bursts. You don't breath life into a game by increasing inflation rates. Inflation rates are exponential so even starting out at a small point will over time grow to a much larger point. Remember the Lucky Egg crash? The cause of that was that, due to a bug, there were more Lucky Eggs in circulation than the market could handle. This drove prices for goods up to unreasonable levels. No one knew how long that bug existed, but the effects of it were devastating to the market as a whole.

Someone went to 70% of their microecon classes

Seriously though, the fact that you're comparing the market effects of the lucky egg glitch to the possible ramifications of a slight decrease in repel purchases shows how out of touch you are with this game's economy. Literally the entire economy was centered around lucky eggs back then, and the economy as a result was extremely unhealthy. Pair that with the fact that we had NO money sinks whatsoever, and it's pretty easy to see why the effects were so devastating.

Meanwhile, in this scenario, we have a relatively stable economy with a bevy of money sinks to help combat inflation. I watched Darkshade's video the other day about money sinks and MMO economies, and it made a lot of sense - however, for you to insinuate that placing PCs in secret bases would negate all the safeguards currently in place and destroy the economy seems like exaggeration to say the least.

-removed the off topic observation that is basically just preaching to the choir-


Edit: would also love to see you address Vael's question, as to how your exaggerated hypothetical would even apply to this suggestion

Edited by Gunthug
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My point isn't exaggerated because I said it would happen gradually over time not immediately. No ramifications would be immediately felt from this suggestion so all we have are speculations as to what would happen. While you are correct that Lucky Eggs were a bad currency, they are a good illustration of what happens when you have little to no outflow of currency in game.

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My point isn't exaggerated because I said it would happen gradually over time not immediately. No ramifications would be immediately felt from this suggestion so all we have are speculations as to what would happen. While you are correct that Lucky Eggs were a bad currency, they are a good illustration of what happens when you have little to no outflow of currency in game.

I think what you mean is no NEGATIVE ramifications would be felt immediately. Positive consequences of this suggestion are numerous and would take place instantaneously.

 

I guess my question becomes this: how is your illustration relevant to this suggestion? We are not currently in an economy lacking in an outflow of currency. Repels are but one of several money sinks, and there's very little, if any, credible evidence to suggest that this money sink would even be affected.

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My point isn't exaggerated because I said it would happen gradually over time not immediately. No ramifications would be immediately felt from this suggestion so all we have are speculations as to what would happen. While you are correct that Lucky Eggs were a bad currency, they are a good illustration of what happens when you have little to no outflow of currency in game.

 

I might be dumb, but what exactly is your point?

Repels would somehow lose part of their value? i'm not quite sure what we're adressing

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My point isn't exaggerated because I said it would happen gradually over time not immediately. No ramifications would be immediately felt from this suggestion so all we have are speculations as to what would happen. While you are correct that Lucky Eggs were a bad currency, they are a good illustration of what happens when you have little to no outflow of currency in game.

 

But no one fucking wastes their money on repels/hyper potions etc. in the first place. They're useless items and 9/10 if I need a breeder, trainer battle, whatever, there's a PC within 15s of surf/grass from it. Players are smart enough to know where the most optimal farming locations are for every item in the game and this reduces the need to even waste that money. Adding a PC to secret base creates a new money sink (assuming the PC costs money). 

 

Idk if there's available economic data, but I'd bet players spend 10x the money on pokeballs that they do on repels - catching pokemon is literally more economically incentivized than avoiding them. 

 

Furthermore, I pointed this out earlier in the thread, it's not like running into fucking Tentacools is a central element of this game that players would somehow be avoiding if we just implemented the secret base, and the advantages to this feature are very obvious:

 

1. Players spread out away from main hubs -> different pokes because easier to obtain -> more diverse market with lower prices

2. Easier comp play in bases

3. PC becomes a money sink to replace costs that players would *maybe* spend on repels or whatever.

 

TL;DR - this is not at all related to inflation as long as the cost of a PC is high enough to prevent abuse and low enough that a player could/would choose to move it elsewhere. In fact, players may even spend more money on pokeballs with a secret base PC because then they can more easily farm different sorts of pokemon without the high overhead cost of flying/healing/emptying boxes all the time.

Edited by Robofiend
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lol GM just say you devs are lazy to implement PCs in Secret Bases.

1 - No one buys repels and they aren't even that good of a money sink.

2 - Not everyone goes around having a Pokemon with Secret Power.

3 - Secret bases are only in Hoenn.

4 - Creates a new money sink as it won't obviously be for free.

5 - Just admit you're lazy and don't want to implement it.

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i haven't seen one argument against this idea that makes sense in the slightest. this is a brilliant idea. do you guys (people responsible for making decisions) not realize this will open up a part of the game many people want to get into (secret bases) but it currently serves 0 purpose.

 

i mean, it can even be as easy as making the player teleport to the last pokecenter they visited upon exiting their secret base.

 

edit: and make the pc available at battle frontier so new players dont exploit. and make it non-tradeable.

 

did i solve the problem?

Edited by Otulp
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i haven't seen one argument against this idea that makes sense in the slightest. this is a brilliant idea. do you guys (people responsible for making decisions) not realize this will open up a part of the game many people want to get into (secret bases) but it currently serves 0 purpose.

 

i mean, it can even be as easy as making the player teleport to the last pokecenter they visited upon exiting their secret base.

 

edit: and make the pc available at battle frontier so new players dont exploit. and make it non-tradeable.

 

did i solve the problem?

 

No, you created a new one where a player could abuse a teleport without having a pokemon with any of the appropriate skills or spending the time fainting.

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laughed pretty hard at this one, are you just trying to 1 up xela and rache?

 

If your problem is the bolded part, alternatively they could walk back. The point is they are getting a free teleport they otherwise shouldn't.

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If your problem is the bolded part, alternatively they could walk back. The point is they are getting a free teleport they otherwise shouldn't.

Oh, so only half of what you said was really stupid? That's my point - if youre going to contribute garbage like what I bolded, then why post at all? Feel like you xela and rache are having a good laugh about this in TS

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No, you created a new one where a player could abuse a teleport without having a pokemon with any of the appropriate skills or spending the time fainting.

 

uh, why in gods name would a player with a pokemon that has fly abuse this. if you read my comment, which it really sounds like you didnt, you would realize i said make the pc available at battle frontier. by then you have a pokemon with fly, therefore, making your teleport abuse argument obsolete. 

 

edit: and saying oh then they will bring 6 paydayers is not an argument, cause you can teach smeargle fly. and teleport. and payday.

Edited by Otulp
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uh, why in gods name would a player with a pokemon that has fly abuse this. if you read my comment, which it really sounds like you didnt, you would realize i said make the pc available at battle frontier. by then you have a pokemon with fly, therefore, making your teleport abuse argument obsolete. 

 

edit: and saying oh then they will bring 6 paydayers is not an argument, cause you can teach smeargle fly. and teleport. and payday.

You can't fly from a Pokemon Center to the middle of a Route. If you're not sticking to towns only, Fly is essentially a one-way teleport as you need to walk back to where you were after leaving to heal etc.

 

It's also quite amusing that a perfectly viable solution that achieves what people seem to want (being able to duel in bases) without being exploitable for healing went completely ignored earlier in the thread. If this is going to happen, it is definitely not going to allow players to heal their party, bring new party members outside of the base, or teleport to the middle of a route. Saying that it's a non-issue isn't going to make it less of an issue.

Edited by RacheLucario
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It's also quite amusing that a perfectly viable solution that achieves what people seem to want (being able to duel in bases) without being exploitable for healing went completely ignored earlier in the thread. 

 

LF related quote. If you're talking about removing the player's party and allowing them to get new pokes, I think there's a serious engineering hurdle in between that and letting players access the PC in their secret base (esp. if PC was an RP/BP prize that was only obtainable post Hoenn storyline).

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So what is the main "problem" here with this suggestion. I think it's the best suggestion that has been made in a very long time, if this doesn't get implemented you might as well delete this whole forum section because obviously nothing else will.

The only real argument I see and it's a stretch is payday farming/shiny hunting the people that bring 6 pp maxed Persians and hunt for 10k encounters are very few and far between and they deserve whatever amount of yen/shinies they get if they hunt that much.

The pros out way the cons at least 100 to 1.

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LF related quote. If you're talking about removing the player's party and allowing them to get new pokes, I think there's a serious engineering hurdle in between that and letting players access the PC in their secret base (esp. if PC was an RP/BP prize that was only obtainable post Hoenn storyline).

 

 

The only way I can see this possibly working would be:

 

Upon entry:

Notify the player of what will happen so they don't panic when their team is missing.

Take the player's party away.

Create a new party by giving them the first Pokemon in their PC or making them choose.

Disable trading while inside.

 

Upon exit:

Deposit all Pokemon they're holding.

Return the original party.

 

This prevents the Secret Base from being used as a healing spot, but comes with its own problems - most notably that it makes little sense and is overly complex. The player would also need to have at least one Pokemon in their PC for it to work, which won't always be the case if they only caught what they intended to use in the story.

 

A refinement of the idea would be to only take away the player's party if they try to access the PC storage system rather than upon entry to the base. Some feedback on the idea or alternative solutions would be appreciated. Viable alternatives need to achieve the same thing however - preventing the player from healing or swapping their party members in the middle of a route.

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You can't fly from a Pokemon Center to the middle of a Route. If you're not sticking to towns only, Fly is essentially a one-way teleport as you need to walk back to where you were after leaving to heal etc.

 

It's also quite amusing that a perfectly viable solution that achieves what people seem to want (being able to duel in bases) without being exploitable for healing went completely ignored earlier in the thread. If this is going to happen, it is definitely not going to allow players to heal their party, bring new party members outside of the base, or teleport to the middle of a route. Saying that it's a non-issue isn't going to make it less of an issue.

HM Fly can be acquired halfway through the game, thus making the "stick to towns" argument more rubbish than it already was. Not everyone knows about secret bases and not everyone wants to go around with a shitty TM that barely damages the enemy. And if you DO use it, the last thing most people would think about is exploiting it to heal your own Pokemons. If we are going to continue with the pointless arguments against this idea (which none have been valid so far) you might as well remove every other PC that is not inside a Pokecenter, like the Weather Institute one.

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HM Fly can be acquired halfway through the game, thus making the "stick to towns" argument more rubbish than it already was. Not everyone knows about secret bases and not everyone wants to go around with a shitty TM that barely damages the enemy. And if you DO use it, the last thing most people would think about is exploiting it to heal your own Pokemons. If we are going to continue with the pointless arguments against this idea (which none have been valid so far) you might as well remove every other PC that is not inside a Pokecenter, like the Weather Institute one.

Fly is limited in that you can only use it to teleport to a town or location with a Pokemon center. Secret Base locations are common throughout most of Hoenn and can be entered/exited from pretty much wherever you're hunting, meaning that you don't have to travel far after healing like you would after Flying to a PC. Whether every single player knows about bases and/or decides to take advantage of them or not is irrelevant too, the fact remains that they can and a large number of them will. It would actually be an extremely obvious trick, people aren't as stupid as you make them out to be.

 

Carrying a Pokemon with Secret Power isn't exactly an enormous burden either. Remember that you don't need to go to a Move Deleter to remove HMs. Secret Power is a very widely distributed move that can be learned by all common HM slave Pokemon. Bringing along a Dragonite with 3 HM moves (that you can replace at any time with the other 4 it learns) and with Secret Power in the 4th slot isn't exactly crippling. Secret Power is actually reasonably powerful move regardless, especially on a high leveled Pokemon.

 

The difference between the Weather Institute and Secret Bases is that the Weather Institute can't be taken with you throughout most of Hoenn. You can't set it up wherever you happen to be looking for Pokemon, unlike bases which appear on pretty much every route.

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Carrying a Pokemon with Secret Power isn't exactly an enormous burden either. Remember that you don't need to go to a Move Deleter to remove HMs. Secret Power is a very widely distributed move that can be learned by all common HM slave Pokemon. Bringing along a Dragonite with 3 HM moves (that you can replace at any time with the other 4 it learns) and with Secret Power in the 4th slot isn't exactly crippling. Secret Power is actually reasonably powerful move regardless, especially on a high leveled Pokemon.

 

I was going to give a proper reply to your stated points but...do you even play the game to make these arguments? Secret Power is a TM, not a HM and it can be learned by every pokemon in the game. You really have no argument to give against making PC availabe in Secret Bases via Battle Points.

Edited by LillithAensland
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I was going to give a proper reply to your stated points but...do you even play the game to make these arguments? Secret Power is a TM, not a HM and it can be learned by every pokemon in the game. You really have no argument to give against making PC availabe in Secret Bases via Battle Points.

I play the game, yes. I'm well aware that Secret Power is a TM, but if taught to your HM slave, you can keep Secret Power on that Pokemon at all times and simply switch the 3 HMs on it when you need them. Locking the PC behind BP doesn't magically fix the problems with the suggestion. Once they have it, they can and will still take advantage of it to heal.

 

Something I should make clear is that the idea of a base PC isn't an inherently bad one and I'm not against it in its entirety, but if it is implemented, it has to be done in a way that doesn't allow the user to heal/swap their party members while they're out hunting. Any changes to the user's party would have to be temporary, allowing them to switch Pokemon for duels but not to take new Pokemon out of the base or have the ones they brought in with them healed. If you don't like the solution above, feel free to suggest an alternative, but it has to fit the aforementioned criteria.

 

Designing a solution to a problem (difficult to battle inside a base) shouldn't involve causing more problems. An ideal solution fixes the current issue with minimal or no negative side effects. Arguing that free healing is a non-issue doesn't make it a non-issue, it's simply ignoring what "fixing" the initial problem would cause.

[spoiler]Magikarp, Wobbuffet, etc are unable to learn Secret Power, so your statement about every Pokemon getting it is false. The majority of Pokemon do learn it though.[/spoiler]

Edited by RacheLucario
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I cannot believe how hard the staff is arguing against this.

 

Pros:

  • Adding purpose to a currently useless mechanic of the game
  • Added money sink in people customizing their now useful base
  • Fun factor (A point long lost to this staff team)

 

"Cons":

  • A ridiculously small portion of players farming a ridiculously small number of relatively useless routes will possibly use a few less repels in the game 

 

Are you fucking kidding me? How is this even a debate. I can't help but get slightly irritated reading through this thread and seeing the staff make utterly stupid points against an overall great addition to the game.

Edited by Breathcore
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