VGC2015 vs VGC2016 for season 4 in PSL?

[OrangeManiac]

Asking VGC members to vote for this just for clearance. Here's the rules for VGC 2016. http://nuggetbridge.com/news/gs-cup-announced-as-pokemons-2016-ruleset/

 

It seems like a complete mess with the legendaries allowed such as Mega Ray, Orbs and so on. Just to clearly have your vote, I made a new thread for this. As I can see who votes, only the votes of VGC players matter.

Edited December 11, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[DoctorPBC]

Asking VGC members to vote for this just for clearance. Here's the rules for VGC 2016. http://nuggetbridge.com/news/gs-cup-announced-as-pokemons-2016-ruleset/

 

It seems like a complete mess with the legendaries allowed such as Mega Ray, Orbs and so on. Just to clearly have your vote, I made a new thread for this. As I can see who votes, only the votes of VGC players matter.

 

I am for the implementation of 2016, however I dont think it should happen until midseason to allow time for players to craft and test teams and for us to have a clear starting point. I think it is going to be fun to have a new meta for VGC

[OldKeith]

The format will not change. The company respnsible for bans has nothing to do with tiering. We the competitive players just need to follow whatever they give.

 

As for PSL, let's not taint it with this horrible VGC16.

[Sleepy]

I dont play VGC, so i wouldnt weigh my opinion very highly.  I am for the upgrade to 2016 for PSL but after midseason, like PBC said.  I feel like everything in the meta is counter able in some way, and if not, you can just hope that the tier council or whoever does that makes the right moves to ban certain things.  

[OldKeith]

I dont play VGC, so i wouldnt weigh my opinion very highly.  I am for the upgrade to 2016 for PSL but after midseason, like PBC said.  I feel like everything in the meta is counter able in some way, and if not, you can just hope that the tier council or whoever does that makes the right moves to ban certain things.  

 

That's not how it works in VGC. The format is set for a full year. I feel there is too much chaos now to adapt, a lot of people will try crazy things but at the end of the day it is all a bit random/chaotic. I did make top 8 in two consecutive 140+ player tournaments on showdown (people still doing them), and while I feel this format has more balance than expected at first, I think if we translate it so early into the PSL it will affect the results of matches in a very random way. Some players are quickly learning the 2015 format, having them go to 2016 now in this chaos is too much.

[DoctorPBC]

That's not how it works in VGC. The format is set for a full year. I feel there is too much chaos now to adapt, a lot of people will try crazy things but at the end of the day it is all a bit random/chaotic. I did make top 8 in two consecutive 140+ player tournaments on showdown (people still doing them), and while I feel this format has more balance than expected at first, I think if we translate it so early into the PSL it will affect the results of matches in a very random way. Some players are quickly learning the 2015 format, having them go to 2016 now in this chaos is too much.

 

thats why we should wait until midseason, we are only 2 weeks in and midseason is another few away, it gives ample time to learn the new meta and form some teams... no reason why a good vgc player would struggle when everyone is on the same playing field after a few weeks.

[DoubleJ]

I might VGC, let's go all out 2016! Also for a PokeMMO OU reset. 

[Sleepy]

I might VGC, let's go all out 2016! Also for a PokeMMO OU reset. 

Im actually thinking about learning VGC 16 since everyone else has to also learn it :D

[Sleepy]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-302755297

 

I mean maybe its op? Idk he had Primal Groudon 

Edited December 10, 2015 by Sleepy

[OldKeith]

The gamebook cover trio of Rayquaza, Kyogre and Groudon can evolve ( R ) or underg primal reversion (K+G). The problem with Rayquaza is that it does not need a mega stone to mega evolve, which means its stats of 105/180/100/180/100/115 which are insane, make for an unpredictable set due to the unknown item. Furthermore, the ability delta stream creates a strong wind which negates all flying weaknesses, making it only weak to fairy, ice and dragon. In addition, the strong weather condition can only be changed by one of the abilities of Primal Groudon (harsh sunlight) and Primal Kyogre (heavy rain). While these two are forced to run blue or red orbs to become primal, you are not limited to any number of primal reversions per battle unlike mega evolutions. Their strong weathers cannot be negated by anythign but another strong weather, so eventually all this metagame will become is a huge weather war. Since harsh sunlight stops water attacks from doing damage and heavy rain stops fire moves, it is well clear how weather-centred this whole business will be, so expect switches. The insane power creep of mythical legendaries usually takes switches out of the question, because even a resisted attack will be a 2hko on most non-mythical stuff. Another massive threat is Xerneas, who with a BST of 680 has access to geomancy, a move that combined with power herb gets your special attack, special defense and speed to +2. Surely, it can surprise with a choice scarf set as well, being able to naturally hit hard with 130+ sttack/special attack. I hope this makes the cancer format a bit more clear, especially how it will be centred around weather and xerneas.

Edited December 10, 2015 by OldKeith

[Eggplant]

Maybe next season.

I don't think our playerbase will have the patience to play a year without PSL. We could see VGC 2016 in PSL5, maybe 6.

[Kizhaz]

If PSL follows the current trend, it will be back by about June next year, I think that's when we should see the new 2016 VGC. I mean it's not even 2016 yet and it wont be until about the midseason auctions (or after), I don't think it's fair to all the vgc players to try and adapt to a meta that they didn't sign up for (kind of)

[DoctorPBC]

really dont get why nobody wants to move to VGC 16, its fun, its more entertaining and we are allowing time for us to adapt... it doesnt take 6 months to learn a tier when everyone is starting at the same spot.

 

Literally makes no logical sense to stay in 15 when a more, up to date version of VGC is available

[OrangeManiac]

If PSL follows the current trend, it will be back by about June next year, I think that's when we should see the new 2016 VGC. I mean it's not even 2016 yet and it wont be until about the midseason auctions (or after), I don't think it's fair to all the vgc players to try and adapt to a meta that they didn't sign up for (kind of)

 

This is why the opinion of VGC players matter to me regarding this.

 

really dont get why nobody wants to move to VGC 16, its fun, its more entertaining and we are allowing time for us to adapt... it doesnt take 6 months to learn a tier when everyone is starting at the same spot.

 

Literally makes no logical sense to stay in 15 when a more, up to date version of VGC is available

 

Alright, I'll admit I'm not a VGC expert in any way... but is a metagame which revolves around 4 overpowered Pokemon and their possible gimmicky counters any fun at all? I feel like they botched the whole damn implementation, I mean I know it's not "tiered" but it's absolutely pooped to ban something like Keldeo or Jirachi and then allow Mega Ray, P-Kyogre, P-Groundon, Xerneas.

 

Like I feel the factor of an enjoyable metagame was not taken into consideration when making VGC 2016, I feel like they just had to have their game mascots as playable characters for the VGC 2016. Now I have no idea how VGC 2015 was made but it seems like fairly balanced format to me. As PokeMMO revolves around Smogon type of tiering of wanting to have an enjoyable, balanced, diverse metagame and this official whateverthefuck company didn't care about that I think philosophically the more balanced alternative 2015 fits for us. Like, if I knew VGC 2016 was like that I would have made the last tier ORAS OU or something before season started.

 

But if VGC players don't care for a 4-Pokemon metagame, I'm not against 2016.

 

Edit: I removed the 2nd question because I wasn't aware the rules are set in stone for a year and it's finalized.

Edited December 10, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[OldKeith]

I am up for playing whatever most players want. Having played every possible format on showdown from ubers to balanced hackmons, I am kinda used to power creeps and the insanity of it. However, as Orangemaniac mentioned, there is no tiering involved in VGC, and people who embrace this format are just excited about the change, but will soon discover that the format will be way more limited. While support mon can still vary (pranksters, bulky trick room users, parasect with wide guard and rage powder), the powerhouses will be pretty much the same all the time. When I signed up for PSL, my manager signed me up for a large sum, and I somehow can be confident that I will win most of my matches. However, I cannot expect to win my matches in a format where speed ties and crits decide a game, and where spamming powerful attacks mindlessly has no drawback. I did get to top 10 on the vgc16 ladder last night, but I still feel this format is way more random. Let's take Xerneas for example. You see it, what do you do? It can either be the usual power herb, in which case you are free to target it. However if you land yourself into a choice scarf moonblast you can get knocked out just like that. I for one would prefer not to play VGC2016 in PSL; but at the end of the day I will be forced to hack soft reset my legendaries for real life tournaments next year, so whatever.

[DaftCoolio]

But if VGC players don't care for a 4-Pokemon metagame, I'm not against 2016.

2015 was a 5 pokemon metagame, people starting to think vgc was a blackboard with all this chalk around

[OldKeith]

2015 was a 5 pokemon metagame, people starting to think vgc was a blackboard with all this chalk around

 

That is true, the top 8 teams in worlds used 12 different pokemon. Out of a maximum of 48.

[DoctorPBC]

just gonna throw this out for the diversity argument

 

 

Ho-Ho has been one of the lesser talked about restricted ubers, and I just faceraped someone with it so im showing off but im also using this as a means to refute the argument that this meta is all about kyogre and groudon cancer

 

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-303236264

Edited December 11, 2015 by DoctorPBC

[OrangeManiac]

Hmm, interesting. The votes of current starting VGC players are now even.

[Greck]

Orange, something went wrong:

[OrangeManiac]

Orange, something went wrong:

 

I had two polls first but I removed the second because I didn't know VGC rules are set in stone. Apparently now it requires to vote for them both or it doesn't work.

 

Why are forum polls so broken. Anyways, if you can't vote then please post your opinion by writing in this thread.

[Sleepy]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-303288945

 

Granted he left, but i didnt have to use my Primal Kyogre, and he had both Rayquaza and Kyogre.  They both got easily shut down. Granted, his Kyogre helped me with the rain but still

[DaftCoolio]

cant vote, imagine i voted for vgc16

Edited December 11, 2015 by DaftCoolio

[OrangeManiac]

Poll should work now. At least week 3 will be 2015 but trying to make a decision regarding after it asap.

[Vorred]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-303288945

 

Granted he left, but i didnt have to use my Primal Kyogre, and he had both Rayquaza and Kyogre.  They both got easily shut down. Granted, his Kyogre helped me with the rain but still

 

it helped that he was complete shit too