What is the deal with people and 31s

[codylramey]

Why has the market gravitated so much towards pokemon with 31 IVs. Comps are judged by how many 31s they have and not how overall good it is as a comp. I had one guy tell me that hidden power doesnt change the value of a pokemon and that it was worthless bc it only had 1 31 (speed). People think that a wall that has low hp (and speed) but 3 31s in other places is as good if not better than a wall that has all 25s and 31 speed. How did the market get so bad and what can be done to fix it?

[Bilburt]

as i see it most new players learn that the best IV to get in a pokemon is 31

and most pokemon that are linked in chat have multipile 31 IV's

giving these new players the attitude that you have to get 31 IV on a pokemon to make it good

ofcourse 31 is the best IV to get so they do have a point

how to fix this? no idea

[OrangeManiac]

It's because of the way people market stuff in trade chat. People only breed 31s at the moment and when they sell their 3x 31 breeders they market it as "selling a 3x 31 breeder". This gives people the understanding that only 31s matter and they do when you're going for perfect breeding, yes. I even think majority of the people who play comp don't even know what exactly IVs do to their Pokemon other than "I heard they make it better". I'm not complaining, though. Been able to buy plenty of bargain +25 everythings with correct nature without even trying to get them cheap.

[Vaeldras]

breeding for particular ivs (31s)  is more expensive than breeding for compromises, what's why stuff such as a...31 15 31 x 31 31 swampert will be worth as much as a 28 29 30 x 31 30 swampert, even though the first one is way worse. You're basically investing for a 5x31 in this case.

Other than that, i don't think things are like you said, everyone i met could easily "see through" 31's.

[Tritios]

Other than that, i don't think things are like you said, everyone i met could easily "see through" 31's.

 

alot of nubs doesnt, Ive spoken to several nubs thinking the stat is shit if it isnt 31.

 

what annoys me the most is probably new people who are trying to get into comp starts with breeding 5x31s. its a waste of time when you rather should spend the time battling, and learning about the meta and comp in general. 

and also people who breed for IVs only and seem to forget about nature... alot of people dont seem to know how marginal the diffrence that there is between 31 and 25 in IVs. 

[codylramey]

It's because of the way people market stuff in trade chat. People only breed 31s at the moment and when they sell their 3x 31 breeders they market it as "selling a 3x 31 breeder". This gives people the understanding that only 31s matter and they do when you're going for perfect breeding, yes. I even think majority of the people who play comp don't even know what exactly IVs do to their Pokemon other than "I heard they make it better". I'm not complaining, though. Been able to buy plenty of bargain +25 everythings with correct nature without even trying to get them cheap.

Yea ive been able to get some bargains which is good ofc, but it still makes for a shitty market. Cant make money :/

 

breeding for particular ivs (31s)  is more expensive than breeding for compromises, what's why stuff such as a...31 15 31 x 31 31 swampert will be worth as much as a 28 29 30 x 31 30 swampert, even though the first one is way worse. You're basically investing for a 5x31 in this case.

 

Yea i understand what you are saying. Thats why i suggested a teired pricing system for braces. If 25+ were cheaper to breed than 31s then people would be more inclined to breed 25+. That will lead to more on the market, more demand for multipuld 25+ breeders, and people actually buying 25+ bc the people who make them will be able to sell at a much cheaper price than the guys making 31s.

 

Do any of you guys think that trade hub will help this at all? If people put their 25+ up for cheap and see how fast they go then they will put more up for a little bit more slowly raising the price of non 31 pokes. Any possibility to that train of thought?

Edited November 29, 2015 by codylramey

[Kizhaz]

In every pokemon game, 31 was the stat to always use and anything less was worthless and could be easily fixed. MMO changes this but unfortunately the people stay the same

[Sebaku]

alot of nubs doesnt, Ive spoken to several nubs thinking the stat is shit if it isnt 31.

 

what annoys me the most is probably new people who are trying to get into comp starts with breeding 5x31s. its a waste of time when you rather should spend the time battling, and learning about the meta and comp in general. 

and also people who breed for IVs only and seem to forget about nature... alot of people dont seem to know how marginal the diffrence that there is between 31 and 25 in IVs. 

I'm curious as to why that annoys you. I'm "new" to this game and just started breeding my 5x31's. I don't have any experience with the meta, I haven't even done a single pvp battle on this game since I don't have a team. Yet I chose to start with breeding 5x31's right away because I fell like doing it right the first time. You could call it a perfectionists obsession. I'm not doubting at all that when I finish my first 6 pokemon, the synergy isn't as good as I think it is in my head, but that's no problem, all the pokemon I'm breeding are useful in some form of composition, so there is no way it's been a waste of time.

 

Sure, buying some cheap comps and learning the game first, might be a better approach to getting into this game, but it doesn't feel right to me, to not go for the best option right away. And for those rare times that I'll live with 3 hp, the hard work will come to fruition.

[Vaeldras]

I'm curious as to why that annoys you. I'm "new" to this game and just started breeding my 5x31's. I don't have any experience with the meta, I haven't even done a single pvp battle on this game since I don't have a team. Yet I chose to start with breeding 5x31's right away because I fell like doing it right the first time. You could call it a perfectionists obsession. I'm not doubting at all that when I finish my first 6 pokemon, the synergy isn't as good as I think it is in my head, but that's no problem, all the pokemon I'm breeding are useful in some form of composition, so there is no way it's been a waste of time.

 

Sure, buying some cheap comps and learning the game first, might be a better approach to getting into this game, but it doesn't feel right to me, to not go for the best option right away. And for those rare times that I'll live with 3 hp, the hard work will come to fruition.

 

I get that, you don't want to make comps that you're possibly going to replace later on just because you didn't want to invest enough time in making them, makes perfect sense.

It's just that variety > quality (to a certain extent), sadly you can't win anything serious with just 6 pokes.

Having 5x31 is always nice, but breeding 5x31 only is imo not worth it when the difference is at times so marginal.

I personally breed 5x31 because it's easier and i can't be bothered getting into absurd and risky breeding chains, but if i had to buy a comp i'd always rather get something like a very good 2x31.

[Tritios]

I'm curious as to why that annoys you. I'm "new" to this game and just started breeding my 5x31's. I don't have any experience with the meta, I haven't even done a single pvp battle on this game since I don't have a team. Yet I chose to start with breeding 5x31's right away because I fell like doing it right the first time. You could call it a perfectionists obsession. I'm not doubting at all that when I finish my first 6 pokemon, the synergy isn't as good as I think it is in my head, but that's no problem, all the pokemon I'm breeding are useful in some form of composition, so there is no way it's been a waste of time.

 

Sure, buying some cheap comps and learning the game first, might be a better approach to getting into this game, but it doesn't feel right to me, to not go for the best option right away. And for those rare times that I'll live with 3 hp, the hard work will come to fruition.

 

because i think it hinders people from joining the comp scene, the learning curve is already so damn steap its ridicoules. then before you can even start with that you gotta spend hours grinding inorder to breed a pokemon that you'll might soon realize isnt that good/doesnt fit the team/lacking eggmoves. 

also you need more than 6 pokemon inorder to do comp, having a selection of pokemon is necessary.

 

yes you might loose a few battles if your pokemons arent 5x31. but you will loose way more battles because you dont have to knowledge about the meta/ability to predict moves, movesets, switches etc.

 

im speaking out of my own expirience aswell here, one of the first things i breed when the new breeding came out was a 5x31 marowak, which i have never used in battle because, the nature and EVs are pretty meh. so i wasted a week of playing and 7-800k on something useless

[codylramey]

I'm curious as to why that annoys you. I'm "new" to this game and just started breeding my 5x31's. I don't have any experience with the meta, I haven't even done a single pvp battle on this game since I don't have a team. Yet I chose to start with breeding 5x31's right away because I fell like doing it right the first time. You could call it a perfectionists obsession. I'm not doubting at all that when I finish my first 6 pokemon, the synergy isn't as good as I think it is in my head, but that's no problem, all the pokemon I'm breeding are useful in some form of composition, so there is no way it's been a waste of time.

 

Sure, buying some cheap comps and learning the game first, might be a better approach to getting into this game, but it doesn't feel right to me, to not go for the best option right away. And for those rare times that I'll live with 3 hp, the hard work will come to fruition.

I know you werent asking me but this whole thing bothers me because at one point we had a large variety of pokemon being bought, sold, and traded. We had comps which, at the time, could have ivs as low as 20 and still be good (some things like marrowak could work with things like spcl def being in the teens) then we had good or "goodly" comps which had all of the important stats hanging around 25 then we had gods which had 30-31s in more than one stat and nothing < 25. Then we had breeders which could be trash in a few stats and still be sold. Now we only have breeders and comps, which must have multiple 31s despite the fact that it doesnt really do anything for you in most situations. This community puts no value towards a 25+ poke if it doesnt have 3+ 31s. They would rather buy a marrowak with 4 31s, one of them being spcl atk, and 29 speed than a marrowk with all 25s, 2 spcl atk, and 31 speed. It just doesnt make sense.

Edited November 29, 2015 by codylramey

[Sebaku]

I get that, you don't want to make comps that you're possibly going to replace later on just because you didn't want to invest enough time in making them, makes perfect sense.

It's just that variety > quality (to a certain extent), sadly you can't win anything serious with just 6 pokes.

Having 5x31 is always nice, but breeding 5x31 only is imo not worth it when the difference is at times so marginal.

I personally breed 5x31 because it's easier and i can't be bothered getting into absurd and risky breeding chains, but if i had to buy a comp i'd always rather get something like a very good 2x31.

I fully agree with you. I don't think my way is the right way, and maybe I should have considered taking the cheaper comp route more. I'm very aware that I can't achieve anything with a low pool of pokemon to choose from. The only excuse I have is that I'm not looking to become a competitive player today, tomorrow or next week. I'm fine with slowly building up pokes and learning through the way.

 

 

because i think it hinders people from joining the comp scene, the learning curve is already so damn steap its ridicoules. then before you can even start with that you gotta spend hours grinding inorder to breed a pokemon that you'll might soon realize isnt that good/doesnt fit the team/lacking eggmoves. 

also you need more than 6 pokemon inorder to do comp, having a selection of pokemon is necessary.

 

yes you might loose a few battles if your pokemons arent 5x31. but you will loose way more battles because you dont have to knowledge about the meta/ability to predict moves, movesets, switches etc.

 

im speaking out of my own expirience aswell here, one of the first things i breed when the new breeding came out was a 5x31 marowak, which i have never used in battle because, the nature and EVs are pretty meh. so i wasted a week of playing and 7-800k on something useless

Like I said to Vaeldras, I don't think you are wrong. It could very well hinder people from joining the comp scene. I'm probably underestimating it, and time will tell, but I honestly don't think the learning curve is that steep. That said, I could be totally wrong. I don't know all the speed tiers yet, I don't know if a choice band Dugtrio will ohko a mixed defensively Arcanine, I don't know how much speed investment my Gyarados needs to outspeed a Jolteon when it has one Dragon Dance under its belt, but all those aren't hard to pickup as long as you have the time.

 

As for breeding pokemon without egg moves and the right nature, and not ev training them correctly, that's just blatantly being lazy. As long as you prepare correctly, none of those things should happen.

 

 

I know you werent asking me but this whole thing bothers me because at one point we had a large variety of pokemon being bought, sold, and traded. We had comps which, at the time, could have ivs as low as 20 and still be good (some things like marrowak could work with things like spcl def being in the teens) then we had good or "goodly" comps which had all of the important stats hanging around 25 then we had gods which had 30-31s in more than one stat and nothing < 25. Then we had breeders which could be trash in a few stats and still be sold. Now we only have breeders and comps, which must have multiple 31s despite the fact that it doesnt really do anything for you in most situations. This community puts no value towards a 25+ poke if it doesnt have 3+ 31s. They would rather buy a marrowak with 4 31s, one of them being spcl atk, and 29 speed than a marrowk with all 25s, 2 spcl atk, and 31 speed. It just doesnt make sense.

I realize I went a bit off topic, and contributed nothing to your thread. I have no clue about the market, but I'll confess that I would probably rate a 3x31 higher than a 5x25+ pokemon too. I understand your problem with it, but as long as you are aware of it, you can use it to your advantage, by buying them cheaper than that they are worth right?

[Vaeldras]

I fully agree with you. I don't think my way is the right way, and maybe I should have considered taking the cheaper comp route more. I'm very aware that I can't achieve anything with a low pool of pokemon to choose from. The only excuse I have is that I'm not looking to become a competitive player today, tomorrow or next week. I'm fine with slowly building up pokes and learning through the way.

 

 

Nah, as long as it's only a few of them go for it.

As far as breeding is concerned, breeding for 31's is currently more convenient anyway, i'd only breed 5x31 if i had to

Buying is another story

[codylramey]

I realize I went a bit off topic, and contributed nothing to your thread. I have no clue about the market, but I'll confess that I would probably rate a 3x31 higher than a 5x25+ pokemon too. I understand your problem with it, but as long as you are aware of it, you can use it to your advantage, by buying them cheaper than that they are worth right?

You can but i try and make a lot of my money on the market, and the market is trash. It takes 480k to breed for 5x 31s just in braces (assuming you start with 1x 31 which many 31 breeders you catch are 1x). Then you have 70k in gender select best case, the pokeballs for the breeders/price of the dittos, and the time. If the market put value on multipule 25 pokes then i would be able to slash my brace cost by only using 3x or 4x 25 + breeders (which are a lot easier to find than even a 2x 31 breeder).

 

 

Nah, as long as it's only a few of them go for it.

As far as breeding is concerned, breeding for 31's is currently more convenient anyway, i'd only breed 5x31 if i had to

Buying is another story

Could you explain how its more convenient to breed for 31s? You get more for your buck yes but i dont see how it is convenient unless you are HP breedig.

Edited November 29, 2015 by codylramey

[Vaeldras]

You can but i try and make a lot of my money on the market, and the market is trash. It takes 480k to breed for 5x 31s just in braces (assuming you start with 1x 31 which many 31 breeders you catch are 1x). Then you have 70k in gender select best case, the pokeballs for the breeders/price of the dittos, and the time. If the market put value on multipule 25 pokes then i would be able to slash my brace cost by only using 3x or 4x 25 + breeders (which are a lot easier to find than even a 2x 31 breeder).

 

 

Could you explain how its more convenient to breed for 31s? You get more for your buck yes but i dont see how it is convenient unless you are HP breedig.

 

Catching a few 31's is easier than catching a pokemon worth using to upgrade the one you're breeding, also no chances of failing.

Also good 2x31 breeders are sometimes sold for over 200k, when 3x31 are worth more or less 130-40k.

At least that's what i experienced.

[SneaKyKhaLidA]

Why has the market gravitated so much towards pokemon with 31 IVs. Comps are judged by how many 31s they have and not how overall good it is as a comp. I had one guy tell me that hidden power doesnt change the value of a pokemon and that it was worthless bc it only had 1 31 (speed). People think that a wall that has low hp (and speed) but 3 31s in other places is as good if not better than a wall that has all 25s and 31 speed. How did the market get so bad and what can be done to fix it?

I was selling a poke , was like 25 / 30 / 30 / 31 / 29 / 31(good nature) + egg moves. and noobs are like what its only 2x31 so it can only be like 150K or 200K and im like wtf seriously because i was asking way more then he asked.

[codylramey]

Catching a few 31's is easier than catching a pokemon worth using to upgrade the one you're breeding, also no chances of failing.

Also good 2x31 breeders are sometimes sold for over 200k, when 3x31 are worth more or less 130-40k.

At least that's what i experienced.

srsly? Thats so fucking weird. My standards for a comp is 25+ important stats and 31 speed (even walls). So when i breed i mix the breeders in a way that will guarantee that. I dont depend on RNG at all. Since i dont desire 31s i often find myself with 3x-4x breeders to use, sometimes i have to go as low as 2x. This is much cheaper than going for 5x 31 because you usually only find 1-2x 31 breeders. But from a market perspective there is no point in doing this because no one wants to buy comps unless they have many 31s.

 

I was selling a poke , was like 25 / 30 / 30 / 31 / 29 / 31(good nature) + egg moves. and noobs are like what its only 2x31 so it can only be like 150K or 200K and im like wtf seriously because i was asking way more then he asked.

Yea its annoying. Do you think that trade hub will help fix this or no?

[Vaeldras]

I was selling a poke , was like 25 / 30 / 30 / 31 / 29 / 31(good nature) + egg moves. and noobs are like what its only 2x31 so it can only be like 150K or 200K and im like wtf seriously because i was asking way more then he asked.

 

Nah, that's just lowballing

[SneaKyKhaLidA]

srsly? Thats so fucking weird. My standards for a comp is 25+ important stats and 31 speed (even walls). So when i breed i mix the breeders in a way that will guarantee that. I dont depend on RNG at all. Since i dont desire 31s i often find myself with 3x-4x breeders to use, sometimes i have to go as low as 2x. This is much cheaper than going for 5x 31 because you usually only find 1-2x 31 breeders. But from a market perspective there is no point in doing this because no one wants to buy comps unless they have many 31s.

 

Yea its annoying. Do you think that trade hub will help fix this or no?

Is trade hub like the auction house thing or ?

 

Nah, that's just lowballing

Agreed but it happens to me sooooo so so so much lots of people this poke is only 1x31 or 2x31 , should only be this much(insert awful amount here) , people want these perfect 6x31's and im like wtf.

[codylramey]

Yea auction house. You put your things in, come back the next day to see if someone buys, take out money if they do.

 

My understanding of it is that it will/should have an extensive search feature too allowing you to search for egg groups, IVS, nature, species, etc. At least that is what was in my suggestion post which a dev agreed to the importance of having an extensive search feature.

[SneaKyKhaLidA]

Yea auction house. You put your things in, come back the next day to see if someone buys, take out money if they do.

 

My understanding of it is that it will/should have an extensive search feature too allowing you to search for egg groups, IVS, nature, species, etc. At least that is what was in my suggestion post which a dev agreed to the importance of having an extensive search feature.

I would love to have that tbh , if pokemon is shiny also etc.

 

maybe you can put your ign or can set it as anonymous

[londark]

Do you think that trade hub will help fix this or no?

 

Nop

 

People obsessed with 31s will still be obsessed with 31s, it will be easier to find 1-2x31 breeders, it'll probably be easier to find 4-5x31 cause of that...

 

At least i think so, doesn't change the fact that market is shit, i'm poor, tutor moves are a fucking pain to get, i'm poor, getting money is as funny as a funeral, i'm poor etc

Edited November 29, 2015 by londark

[codylramey]

Nop

 

People obsessed with 31s will still be obsessed with 31s, it will be easier to find 1-2x31 breeders, it'll probably be easier to find 4-5x31 cause of that...

 

At least i think so, doesn't change the fact that market is shit, i'm poor, tutor moves are a fucking pain to get, i'm poor, getting money is as funny as a funeral, i'm poor etc

I agree, althought the tutor ting will partly be solved with the trade hub.

 

Something to note tho is i just made money selling a few shit tier pokes bc they had 31s in them. Still dont like the market but ppl will pay out the ass for those 31s.

[tipherith]

Why has the market gravitated so much towards pokemon with 31 IVs. Comps are judged by how many 31s they have and not how overall good it is as a comp. I had one guy tell me that hidden power doesnt change the value of a pokemon and that it was worthless bc it only had 1 31 (speed). People think that a wall that has low hp (and speed) but 3 31s in other places is as good if not better than a wall that has all 25s and 31 speed. How did the market get so bad and what can be done to fix it?

Its a moronsend. Personally all 31's mean nothing to me. Get 1 or 2 perharps 3 at 31's in stats that actually help for your style of that poke and call err good.

[Solist]

I think it's the breeding mechanic that lies at the root of this development, and that the market has evolved around it. From a traders perspective, I find it only logical that emphasis is put on how many 31 IV's a pokemon has. As only those IV's are worth the braces (unless breeding genderless or hidden power). And therefore, the value of that pokemon becomes easy to determine. I actually like how pokemon with x amount of 31 IV's have become such a reliable trading commodity. The breeding mechanic ensures these pokemon will hold their value. Paired with the level of control this mechanic provides over the breeding process, I feel it's only natural that the focus lies so heavily on 31 IV's.

 

I understand the frustration caused by players staring themselves blind on those IV's. But I also understand why those players do so. I think most players are not too knowledgeable about the metagame. So this 31 IV standard is an easy benchmark to cling on to when trading and breeding. Maybe some players have gone a bit overboard. But this still is a pokemon game. Can't really expect much economic and competitive insight from its playerbase in my opinion.

 

On a side note, I feel like the tradeoff when not breeding for perfect IV's is fair. You spend less time and resources on a still viable competitive pokemon, in exchange for a portion of it's market value.

 

An auction house would be nice though.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Solist