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[Implemented] Adding Rewards to PvP


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In the wake of the economic crisis that pokemmo is seeing the suggestion of adding a monetary reward for PvP has been brought up in two different threads. I believe this is a great idea. The devs, however, are worried about any reward based PvP system being able to be exploited. Which is a valid concern. But i do not think that it would be too hard to keep this from happening.

 

Why should we implement rewards for PvP?

 

First of all before i start to talk about how PvP rewards can be implemented in a way that prevents people from exploiting it i want to quickly point out why adding rewards to PvP is a good idea in the first place. In pokemmo the grind is there and it is greatly over bearing. Most of the grind is boring, tedious, and most players avoid doing any of it when they can. But why do we as players endure this grind? Its easy, for PvP. Unless you are solely a shiny trader PvP is the endgame in Pokemmo, everything we do in this game is in order to get better at PvP. So i believe that we should be rewarded for that work we put into doing this one thing. And on more occasions than just the chance at winning a big prize at a tourny. PvP is the only thing in this game that could be a grind w/o feeling like a grind imo. Thats not even mentioning the positive impact this would have on the evolution of the meta.

 

How should it be done?

 

So how do we do it? There are a few mechanisms that can be put into place to prevent exploitation of the system. I will list them in bullet point form and then explain how they can work together to create a PvP system with rewards and no exploitatio. But first lets learn from our mistakes of the past.

 

For those of you who dont know there was once an automated system upstairs in every PC that allowed you to quee up for a battle and randomly get thrown into matches against other people who weere queed up. There was no monetary reward for winning these battles but only a ranking system. Even still it was widely popular when it first came out. But, as do a lot of the new mechanics in this game, it quickly loss its fire and died out. I think the system is still there but doesnt function anymore. So why did it lose its appeal the way it did? Some speculated that it was because there was no reward to be had for winning a match. While that may have had a little to do with it it wasnt the biggest reason for the loss of spark imo, What was happening was once you got up to a certain level it became hard to find a match, People would wait forever b4 the system matched them up. I didnt program the system but it was my understanding that there was a mechanic that didnt allow higher ranked players battle lower ranked ones at all. This meant that if there wasnt anyone on your level queed up for battle you werent going to get to battle. So people eventually stopped trying.

 

How do we fix this? It is important to try and get people who are on the same level battling each other and not allow vets to easily exploit noobs in this battle system. But sometimes there just isnt a match that is on your level. Apparently in showdown when that happens, when there isnt a match within your rank, the game starts looking for players slightly higher or lower than your rank until one is found and adjusts the reward you earn or lose for winning or losing that match accordingly. We should implement a system like that in order to ensure you can always find a match.

 

Now on to the ways to prevent exploitation.

  • Random matches
  • Not being allowed to face the same person more than once in X amount of time
  • Ranking system
  • Tiered rewards
  • Small punishment when you lose
  • Win ratios

Some of these are no brainers so i wont go too in depth on all of them.

 

Random Matches: This is one of those no brainer mechanics. The explanation of what this is and why it is needed is simple. Random matches means that you dont get to choose your opponent when fighting for rewards. The reason for this is so that you cant set up a match against your friend or an alt in order for one of  you to throw the match and the other to get the reward. This imo is the single most important aspect of the system that would go the longest way to preventing abuse.

 

Limit on how many times you can face the same person in a period of time: Wow that title is long. What this says is that you cant face the same opponent more than once in X amount of time (probably would be like a day or 6 hrs). This means that even if you try to use the system at a time to where the odds of you getting a match against your friend who wants to let you win or with your alt are better, there will be a cool down on when you can face him again. This prevents people from unjustly win a reward multiple times in a row. There is a downside to this though. Lets assume the system isnt too popular and not a lot of people are using it; after all there are usually only 10-15 people battling in vermilion during peak hour anyway. That means you would only be able to PvP for a reward 10-15 times at that given time. Also if the system is set up to where you can fight lower level people if there are no suitable matches on your level then this would make it easier for the elite to pray on the noobs. This idea can be implemented in different ways to help mend this though. For example you can allow a battle to happen between two people more than once but only offer points towards your rank but no other reward for the second or third time you fight within that day or so.

 

Ranking system: The pvp system should have a ranking system based off from eloy (i think thats what showdown calls it). When you win you get points towards going to higher ranks, when you lose you get points taken away. I think that there should be tiers you can enter and leave depending on your eloy. Meaning you start out at tier one and work you way up. As you gain eloy you go up to tier two, tier three, etc. Each tier will only fight with in their own tier unless there are no suitable matches then you will go up a tier or down a tier. The tier that you are in will determine the max amount of reward you are able to earn in any given match. So for example if you are in tier one you may only be able to win $500 max per win while tier two that gets bumped to $900 (the numbers are just examples not suggestions) and so on. This will encourage people to try their hardest and discourage throwing matches for your friends.

 

Tiered Rewards: As mentioned above each rank will have a different max amount of money you can win per match depending on how high your tier is. Within each rank there should be tiered rewards. For example in Rank One would have tier 1 reward tier 2 reward and tier 3 reward after every match. Tier 1 could be something like $100, tier 2 could be something like $300, and tier 3 could be $500 won per match. Then when you rank up Tier one can be $500, Tier two can be $700 and tier three can be $900 per match won. (again the numbers are only an example.) There will be a few factors that determine which tier of reward you earn. First of all the rank of the person you face will impact your reward. If he is higher than you and you win you get tier 3, if he is lower and you win you get tier 1. Win ratio can impact it too. If you have a low win ratio then you can be stuck on tier one until you get the win ratio up. This is to further discourage throwing matches for friends. Eloy rewards and deductions can be determined with a similar system.

 

Small punishment when you lose: This was the most controversial part of my suggestion for this system in another post, and I'll admit even i am not 100% sold on the idea. Basically I suggested that when you lose you should lose something such as battle points. The punishment can be tiered like the rewards. The reason for this is purely to prevent abuse of the system mainly through alts, although it discourages people throwing matches for friends too. But a player would be less likely to try and pit himself against his alt if letting that alt lose means he now has to grind BP for that alt in order to do it again. It makes abusing the system extremely inefficient. This punishment also discourages people from entering the system before they are ready thus preventing those boring battles with a persons story line team that I personally hate. I chose battle points due to the fact that anyone with comps can earn them and if you are trying to use this system that means that you should have comps. The downside to this is that it does add a barrier to entry into the system for both noobs and vets. This barrier requires a small grind in order to participate which could discourage people, noobs and vets alike, from using it. And this system requires people to participate in it in order for it to work. The system is also extremely punishing for people who are just bad at comp at the moment, but that can be mended by adding a practice mode with no rank, punishment, or reward. As i said b4 im not yet sold on this idea, i dont even know if i would even be necessary to prevent abuse as the other mechanics mentioned on this thread could be enough to get the job done. But I do think that this idea should be at least discussed and maybe tested in any initial release of this kind of PvP system.

 

Win Ratios: Its pretty obvious we should have win ratios, nearly all PvP games has them. But i have thrown around the idea of letting them effect things for you in this system. For example someone with a low win ratio can be stuck on a tier 1 reward until he/she gets the ratio up. This discourages throwing games for friends. Also low win ratios can mean high punishment when you lose. This would discourage grinding alts. Low win rates can also prevent you from ranking up even if you have the eloy (which you prolly wont if you have a low win ratio) But it is even more punishing for noobs and punishes streaks of bad luck too so i am not 100% sold on this idea either. 

 

Those are all of the ideas i have had for this system. I am going to end my wall there and hope that this thread can spark some sort of discussion on this topic.

Edited by codylramey
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I support some sort of payout system for competitive players dueling. I think people who usually play refs in officlals will be able to give some valuable insight into possible issues with trying to automate a dueling "ladder system" or a "bracket system" or whatever is the topic.

 

An issue I see with brackets is waiting for your opponent to finish his/her match. The best solution I could think of was a time limit for the duel, but sitting and waiting for even 5 minutes could be an annoyance for players. Because of that concern, there are times where I feel a ladder system like showdown with payouts would be more simple to implement and a little less complicated.

 

My opinion my differ from some on stats. In every game I play with win/lose ratios you get taunters that say "you only have a X win ratio, you pathetic blah blah". I came to PokeMMO to get away from that among other things. I would prefer to not have a lose counter, but instead just some symbol of acomplishments. With the game this way, elitists could still have pee contests, but we don't get the elitsts (or big mouths in general) continually using Win to lose ratios as a d1ck measuring subject. I'm sorry but I really don't want to see it in forums, whispers to me, and in the chat box. Honestly, do you? It's a much more carefree and casual environment (yet still just as competitive at times), if we only track our acomplishments. IMO

Edited by bl0nde
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I support some sort of payout system for competitive players dueling. I think people who usually play refs in officlals will be able to give some valuable insight into possible issues with trying to automate a dueling "ladder system" or a "bracket system" or whatever is the topic.

 

An issue I see with brackets is waiting for your opponent to finish his/her match. The best solution I could think of was a time limit for the duel, but sitting and waiting for even 5 minutes could be an annoyance for players. Because of that concern, there are times where I feel a ladder system like showdown with payouts would be more simple to implement and a little less complicated.

It would also be less effected by time restrictions

 

Not to say that an automated bracket system for tournies isnt a good idea. Its a great idea and i believe the devs are all for it. There is another thread on this forum that deals with that tho.

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  • 6 months later...

Done on 25/3/16.

 

Ranked

 

  • Ranked matchmaking now occurs three times per day, at 5:30PM, 10:30PM, and 1:30AM UTC.
  • Ranked matchmaking queues last for 1 hour.
  • On winning, Ranked matchmaking now gives a Battle Point reward and grants MMR. (2500+(250 per 100MMR>500))
  • MMR is compressed every month, drawing every player back to 500 by a relative amount. 
  • Ranked matchmaking has a fee of 1000BP to enter.
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