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Add a section in the PokeDex underneath NU to hold useless Pokemon.


DaftKitteh

Question

I did a brief search using the term "NU tier", and didn't see anything related to this but it's been on my mind for a while.

Currently when a user(this is going off of my experience mostly) wants to check what's in a tier they open the PokeDex and look through that tiers section.  This tool is invaluable because it allows you to see what you're up against in the tier you choose to play.  For NU however this is really difficult due to the excessive amount of trash in the tier list. 

 

Our Ubers, OU and UU tier are all pretty small only really consisting of 4 rows of Pokemon or less and it allows you to easily see what's in the tier.  Due to the nature of the NU tier it's expected that it have a bunch of 'junk' in it, however I think the 'junkiest of the junk' should be moved to a lower tier just so that one can more conveniently see what the NU tier consists of. 
 

By 'junkiest of the junk' I mean things such as Magikarp, Caterpie, Weedle etc.  Things that have literally no chance of being useful.  This does however present a problem: How to sort the junkiest junk from the viable junk.
A few possible solutions:

  1. NFE Tier:
    A tier that holds all the 'Not Fully Evolved' Pokemon.  This presents a problem though, because some NFE Pokemon such as Diglett are viable in the tier. 
  2. A lower tier decided by the NU Tier Council:
    While it's ridiculous to add an extra tier that needs maintenance, this 'Unusable' or 'Really Bad Tier' or some other name wouldn't really require much maintanence.  Once Pokemon like Magikarp are removed from NU and placed here, they will likely never need to be moved back into NU.  Some other Pokemon may be borderline in the sense that they /can/ be used in NU semi-effectively, but aren't really common or widely accepted as viable, and those should probably be left in NU

Pros of this system:
- Improves the overall polish of the PokeDex
- Allows players to more easily see what's used in NU, and as such makes teambuilding easier.

Cons:
- Takes time to sort out
- Adding another tier
- I'll have to accept that Magikarp literally is trash

Edit:
NOTE: I have absolutely no experience with the NU tier, so this list is mainly just to represent how much stuff needs to be cleaned before checking the dex becomes a viable method of researching a tier.  I also left a handful out because I didn't have their dex entries.
[spoiler] 

Bulbasaur
Ivysaur
Charmander
Charmeleon
Squirtle
Warturtle
Caterpie
Metapod
Weedle
Kakuna
Pidgey(sorry rache)
Ratatta
Spearow
Ekans
Sandslash
Nidoran M/Nidoran F  
Nidorina/nidorino
Clefairy
Vulpix
Jigglypuff
Psyduck
Mankey
Growlithe
Poliwag
Poliwhirl(?)
Abra
Machop
Dodrio
Seel
Grimer
Shellder
Ghastly
Onix(?)
Drowzee
Krabby
Voltorb
Exeggutor
Cubone
Weezing
Rhyhorn
Horsea
Goldeen  
Staryu
Magikarp(;-;7)
Eevee
Omastar
Kabuto
Sentret
Hoothoot
Ledyba
Spinark
Chinchou
Cleffa
Igglybuff
Togepi
Natu
Mareep
Flaaffy
Wooper
Unknown
Pineco
Snubbul
Teddyursa
Slugma
Swinub
Remoraid
Houndour
Larvitar
Pupitar
Treecko
Grovyle
Torchic
Combusken
Mudkip
Marshtomp
Poochyna
Zigzagoon
Wurmple
Silcoon
Lotad
Lombre
Seedot
Nuzleaf
Taillow
Wingull
Ralts
Kirlia
Surskit
Shroomish
Slakoth
Vigoroth
Nincada
Whismur
Loudred
Makuhita
Azuril
Skitty
Aron
Lairon
Elektrike
Volbeat
Gulpin
Carvanah
Waimer
Numel
Spoink
Vibrava (didn't include trapinch because it's viable iirc)
Cacnea
Swablu
Barboach
Corphish
Baltoy
Feebas
Shuppet
Snorunt
Spheal
Sealo
Bagon
Shelgon(?)
Beldum
Metang

[/spoiler]

Edited by DaftKitteh
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Ah so like a box we can tick while in the NU tier and remove the useless Pokemon?

That's a good solution, however the original intent was to have Ubers, OU, UU, NU Other. 
I do like the idea of a box to tick or some other method of keeping the NU tier as it is, however that requires dev time. 
The easiest option would be just make a Other 'tier' in the tier list of the PokeDex and put them there, hence why I called it a tier.

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I really like this idea. When I would talk to friends or teammates about tiers or dueling, I would often find myself looking through NU and just be overwhelmed by the amount of Pokemon. I have never dueled NU, but for the sake of someone attempting to get started within the tier, and for those in game who are not active within the Forums, I think it could definitely be helpful. Also, just cleaning it up and organizing it would look nice!

 

All for the NFE/NCQ/Other tier!

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Briefly spoken to Noad about it and nothing is decided, but if we were to do anything like this it'd like be introducing RU, which would replace current NU, and then 'NU' would become the 'trash tier'.

Awesome, not sure if this is a confirmation of new NU(if added as described) being an actual balanced tier or just a shit-tier.
 

Edited by DaftKitteh
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Briefly spoken to Noad about it and nothing is decided, but if we were to do anything like this it'd like be introducing RU, which would replace current NU, and then 'NU' would become the 'trash tier'.

 

Please no. Mainly due to the reason RU and NU are real tiers in Smogon, this would just confuse people a lot thinking "NU" is a real tier and not just something to help people navigate the real NU list in PokeDex.

I personally think the best idea is to just add a "NFEs (Not viable)" section below NU which basically has all the NFE that are not even somewhat viable in NU (which is like.. 90% of the remaining NFEs). If the NU Council was to determine this, I can just say here's the Pokemon that are reasonable to add to the NU section: Haunter, Kadabra, Metang, Diglett, Duskull, Pikachu (obviously haha), Wynaut and maaybe Shelgon and Clamperl (also Pupitar and Dragonair if we wanna be really loose).

Other option of course is to make a NU (Fully Evolved) and NU (Not Fully Evolved) list which is probably the most politically correct way to do this but since some of these NFEs I mentioned are really viable in NU some people might miss a notable Pokemon in the NU metagame since no one wants to look at the (Not Fully Evolved) list.

 

 

So not a tier, just listing in the Pokedex "NCQ" (Not Competitively Qualified). There is a fair difference there, between an annotation in the pokedex to tidy things up, and making a tier of it. 

 

Or this. NFE is the most common term though so this "NCQ" combo might be another one needed addition to FAQ lol. I like this word combo, though. If the whole "Not Competitively Qualified" could be added then it's pretty damn self-explanatory to everyone. Only issue I see that will we add shit tier fully evolved Pokemon there?

Edited by OrangeManiac
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While I did not read most of the comments in the thread, I think the idea is pretty bad because it will confuse new players into believing there is an actual tier below NU.

 

NU has always been the creative zone, who are we to say what is bad and what not? A lot of NFEs can be niches that fully counter a set team, a recent example would be Duskull with amazing typing and ability that functioned as a full counter to Hitmontop in the absence of other floating ghosts. NU is an ever-changing tier, and the big soup you see in your dex is simply what happens when you have isolated upper tiers. I think when you teambuild, if you look at the dex, you take the wrong approach. Now that we have usage stats, that is where you look.

 

 

Edit:

 

Briefly spoken to Noad about it and nothing is decided, but if we were to do anything like this it'd like be introducing RU, which would replace current NU, and then 'NU' would become the 'trash tier'.

 

That would mean RU would replace NU and work under usage statistics. It is not a move I am a big fan of, as people would just assume we have an additional tier.

Edited by OldKeith
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Or just call it 'Other'?

 

All Tiers

Ubers

Over used

Under Used

Never Used

Other

 

if this would confuse people its thier fucking fault. Move whatever that doesnt have usage at all into the "other" section.

 

I just find it convenient having something in-game to look at when teambuidling/breeding.

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